Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread v2 (pg 77 - declares victory in Iowa)
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  Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread v2 (pg 77 - declares victory in Iowa)
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Author Topic: Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread v2 (pg 77 - declares victory in Iowa)  (Read 129696 times)
GoTfan
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« Reply #675 on: December 14, 2019, 04:15:45 AM »

A very interesting read from Business Insider

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/bernie-sanders-internet-as-utility-plan-explainer-2019-12?r=US&IR=T

It's a very interesting plan, to say the least. Generally it uses a combination of anti-trust laws and FCC regulation combined with public funds.

We should just do universal fiber.

Google Fiber was killed because of sabotage from the existing ISPs.  Not only did they attack Fiber with every weapon available, they also had their technicians physically sabotage Fiber, doing things like "accidentally" cutting lines, causing outages, etc.

Universal 1GB/s internet could be revolutionary.  Right now streaming is the most difficult thing for an ISP to handle, but after Netflix disrupted the industry by making streaming a requirement, the ISPs had to adapt.  Maybe with 1GB/s internet widely available, someone will come along with the next brilliant new service to take advantage of it, that would never have been discovered without the feasibility provided by fiber.

We have the technology, we have the test cases, we know how to make it work if the government puts its muscle behind it.  Let's keep America the most technologically advanced nation in the world.

That's another good point, but from what I see, the idea behind Sanders' plan to essentially to make the internet a public utility.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #676 on: December 14, 2019, 05:17:04 PM »

It’s funny but Biden/moderate later focus on Warren has let Bernie quietly get back into the second spot and within spitting distance of Biden

Is he really “within spitting distance,” though?
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Hollywood
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« Reply #677 on: December 14, 2019, 07:20:25 PM »

It’s funny but Biden/moderate later focus on Warren has let Bernie quietly get back into the second spot and within spitting distance of Biden

Is he really “within spitting distance,” though?

Would you accept the analogy of him being "stones throw away" from Biden?  What about a "hop and skip"?   
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #678 on: December 14, 2019, 07:50:15 PM »

It’s funny but Biden/moderate later focus on Warren has let Bernie quietly get back into the second spot and within spitting distance of Biden

Is he really “within spitting distance,” though?

Would you accept the analogy of him being "stones throw away" from Biden?  What about a "hop and skip"?   

Don't bother.  The Young DNC FanClub of America over here is having a collective breakdown over Bernie's momentum.  You can't win. 
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #679 on: December 15, 2019, 01:43:28 PM »

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Anti Democrat Democrat Club
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« Reply #680 on: December 15, 2019, 01:49:12 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #681 on: December 15, 2019, 02:16:39 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #682 on: December 15, 2019, 03:08:40 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?
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President Johnson
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« Reply #683 on: December 15, 2019, 03:15:39 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?

Keith Ellison was not "set to be DNC Chair" and pushed out of a position, he ran for the position and lost in close race against Tom Perez. Afterwards, he was named Deputy Chair which he later resigned for other reasons.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #684 on: December 15, 2019, 03:18:13 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?

Man, in 2022 y'all are gonna be saying Bernie Sanders was "set to be the nominee" before the establishment asked Biden to jump in.

Also thank God Obama asked Perez to run given how Ellison's career has gone since.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #685 on: December 15, 2019, 03:18:29 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?

Keith Ellison was not "set to be DNC Chair" and pushed out of a position, he ran for the position and lost in close race against Tom Perez. Afterwards, he was named Deputy Chair which he later resigned for other reasons.

You didn't answer my question and this essentially proves my point. He was the frontrunner for a leadership position and then Perez, at Obama's request, jumps in at the last second. Please do explain to me how this was anything but an attempt to prevent a Sanders supporter from getting that position.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #686 on: December 15, 2019, 03:19:08 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?

Man, in 2022 y'all are gonna be saying Bernie Sanders was "set to be the nominee" before the establishment asked Biden to jump in.

Also thank God Obama asked Perez to run given how Ellison's career has gone since.

You're not actually addressing what I said.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #687 on: December 15, 2019, 03:26:06 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?

Keith Ellison was not "set to be DNC Chair" and pushed out of a position, he ran for the position and lost in close race against Tom Perez. Afterwards, he was named Deputy Chair which he later resigned for other reasons.

You didn't answer my question and this essentially proves my point. He was the frontrunner for a leadership position and then Perez, at Obama's request, jumps in at the last second. Please do explain to me how this was anything but an attempt to prevent a Sanders supporter from getting that position.

Where is the point? You could also argue Hillary was the frontrunner for 2016 if Bernie had actually won the nomination? Until progressives asked him to jump in? What's wrong with President Obama making a suggestion for DNC Chair? It's not that Ellison was cheated in the race. And if he won, Obama would have congretulated him and moved on.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #688 on: December 15, 2019, 03:30:37 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?

Keith Ellison was not "set to be DNC Chair" and pushed out of a position, he ran for the position and lost in close race against Tom Perez. Afterwards, he was named Deputy Chair which he later resigned for other reasons.

You didn't answer my question and this essentially proves my point. He was the frontrunner for a leadership position and then Perez, at Obama's request, jumps in at the last second. Please do explain to me how this was anything but an attempt to prevent a Sanders supporter from getting that position.

Where is the point? You could also argue Hillary was the frontrunner for 2016 if Bernie had actually won the nomination? Until progressives asked him to jump in? What's wrong with President Obama making a suggestion for DNC Chair? It's not that Ellison was cheated in the race. And if he won, Obama would have congretulated him and moved on.

He didn't 'suggest' him for anything. Ellison was the frontrunner in the race, so he got Perez to jump to stop that from happening.

You're not actually refuting anything I'm saying
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President Johnson
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« Reply #689 on: December 15, 2019, 03:41:00 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?

Keith Ellison was not "set to be DNC Chair" and pushed out of a position, he ran for the position and lost in close race against Tom Perez. Afterwards, he was named Deputy Chair which he later resigned for other reasons.

You didn't answer my question and this essentially proves my point. He was the frontrunner for a leadership position and then Perez, at Obama's request, jumps in at the last second. Please do explain to me how this was anything but an attempt to prevent a Sanders supporter from getting that position.

Where is the point? You could also argue Hillary was the frontrunner for 2016 if Bernie had actually won the nomination? Until progressives asked him to jump in? What's wrong with President Obama making a suggestion for DNC Chair? It's not that Ellison was cheated in the race. And if he won, Obama would have congretulated him and moved on.

He didn't 'suggest' him for anything. Ellison was the frontrunner in the race, so he got Perez to jump to stop that from happening.

You're not actually refuting anything I'm saying

Frontrunner doesn't mean he - or anyone - is entitled to something? I don't see what was wrong on Obama's part, given that he felt Perez would do a better job. It was a fair and close election and in retrospect the right decision.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #690 on: December 15, 2019, 03:46:33 PM »

When establishment Democrats attack them unprovoked, can you really blame them?

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  They gave him every concession he wanted at the convention and let him write the platform.  They gave his people power in the DNC.  They held a "unity commission" with f***ing Nomiki Konst.  Tom Perez spent months traveling around the country with Sanders on a "unity tour".  They changed all the primary rules to meet his demands - part of the reason we have so many losers on stage this cycle is because of rules that were changed for the Sanders campaign.  And the DNC and actual Democratic establishment are scared to death to criticize him since they've seen how powerful the "rigging" accusation is and how willing Sanders is to torch the party.

Most of the time when Sanders acolytes complain about the "establishment" criticizing him they're complaining about individual Democrats who have some connection to the party or a think tank, or even no connection but just part of the mainstream media or Congress.

I guess they won't be happy until nobody has any anti-Bernie opinions.

Please do explain why then when Keith Ellison was set to be DNC chair, Obama basically had Tom Perez jump in at the last second? How was that anything but an attempt to maintain control over the party and push a Sanders supporter out of a leadership position?

Keith Ellison was not "set to be DNC Chair" and pushed out of a position, he ran for the position and lost in close race against Tom Perez. Afterwards, he was named Deputy Chair which he later resigned for other reasons.

You didn't answer my question and this essentially proves my point. He was the frontrunner for a leadership position and then Perez, at Obama's request, jumps in at the last second. Please do explain to me how this was anything but an attempt to prevent a Sanders supporter from getting that position.

Where is the point? You could also argue Hillary was the frontrunner for 2016 if Bernie had actually won the nomination? Until progressives asked him to jump in? What's wrong with President Obama making a suggestion for DNC Chair? It's not that Ellison was cheated in the race. And if he won, Obama would have congretulated him and moved on.

He didn't 'suggest' him for anything. Ellison was the frontrunner in the race, so he got Perez to jump to stop that from happening.

You're not actually refuting anything I'm saying

Frontrunner doesn't mean he - or anyone - is entitled to something? I don't see what was wrong on Obama's part, given that he felt Perez would do a better job. It was a fair and close election and in retrospect the right decision.

From what I remember, the evidence seemd to support Obama basically ordering him to run specifically to stop Ellison.

Again, you're not actually addressing the second point.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #691 on: December 15, 2019, 05:11:53 PM »

This is such a silly complaint, man.

There's nothing wrong with Obama going out and asking someone to run for a position if he feels that person would do a better job.  If Ellison was such a great candidate he wouldn't have gotten his ass whooped by a "last-minute entrant" (by the way, that "last-minute" was two months before the race, and Perez/Obama probably waited until after the 2016 election to decide).

That isn't an establishment conspiracy to stop Bernie Sanders.  And it's certainly not something that justifies Bernie leading his supporters to boo the "Democratic establishment" over Republicans and Trump.

By the way, wasn't one of Bernie's chief complaints in 2016 that the DNC wasn't impartial, and he wanted it to be impartial?  Why is it a big conspiracy that Ellison didn't become chair, if the point was for the DNC to be impartial?  Could it be that Bernie actually wanted Ellison to make the DNC an arm of the Sanders campaign?
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jfern
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« Reply #692 on: December 15, 2019, 05:16:23 PM »

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  

LOL, the actual Democratic establishment of Pelosi and Schumer had secret anti-Bernie meetings with Buttigieg that were hosted by Chinese operative Bernard Schwartz.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #693 on: December 15, 2019, 06:11:15 PM »

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  

LOL, the actual Democratic establishment of Pelosi and Schumer had secret anti-Bernie meetings with Buttigieg that were hosted by Chinese operative Bernard Schwartz.

This is a myth:

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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #694 on: December 15, 2019, 06:47:24 PM »

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  

LOL, the actual Democratic establishment of Pelosi and Schumer had secret anti-Bernie meetings with Buttigieg that were hosted by Chinese operative Bernard Schwartz.

This is a myth:



Berniecrats revel in conspiracy theories, especially when they fuel their persecution complexes.
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jfern
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« Reply #695 on: December 15, 2019, 08:57:43 PM »

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  

LOL, the actual Democratic establishment of Pelosi and Schumer had secret anti-Bernie meetings with Buttigieg that were hosted by Chinese operative Bernard Schwartz.

This is a myth:



Berniecrats revel in conspiracy theories, especially when they fuel their persecution complexes.

So you believe this is a conspiracy theory?

Quote
The discussion about Mr. Sanders has to date been largely confined to private settings because — like establishment Republicans in 2016 — Democrats are uneasy about elevating him or alienating his supporters.

The matter of What To Do About Bernie and the larger imperative of party unity has, for example, hovered over a series of previously undisclosed Democratic dinners in New York and Washington organized by the longtime party financier Bernard Schwartz. The gatherings have included scores from the moderate or center-left wing of the party, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California; Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the minority leader; former Gov. Terry McAuliffe of Virginia; Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Ind., himself a presidential candidate; and the president of the Center for American Progress, Neera Tanden.

“He did us a disservice in the last election,” said Mr. Schwartz, a longtime Clinton supporter who said he would support former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. in this primary.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html
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« Reply #696 on: December 15, 2019, 09:00:38 PM »

The actual Democratic establishment has, to my great irritation, bent over backwards for him and kissed the ring.  

LOL, the actual Democratic establishment of Pelosi and Schumer had secret anti-Bernie meetings with Buttigieg that were hosted by Chinese operative Bernard Schwartz.

This is a myth:



Berniecrats revel in conspiracy theories, especially when they fuel their persecution complexes.

So you believe this is a conspiracy theory?

Quote
The discussion about Mr. Sanders has to date been largely confined to private settings because — like establishment Republicans in 2016 — Democrats are uneasy about elevating him or alienating his supporters.

The matter of What To Do About Bernie and the larger imperative of party unity has, for example, hovered over a series of previously undisclosed Democratic dinners in New York and Washington organized by the longtime party financier Bernard Schwartz. The gatherings have included scores from the moderate or center-left wing of the party, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California; Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the minority leader; former Gov. Terry McAuliffe of Virginia; Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Ind., himself a presidential candidate; and the president of the Center for American Progress, Neera Tanden.

“He did us a disservice in the last election,” said Mr. Schwartz, a longtime Clinton supporter who said he would support former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. in this primary.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html

This article was written by the "corporate media" and therefore I do not have to read it or grapple with its contents. Smiley
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GoTfan
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« Reply #697 on: December 15, 2019, 11:40:47 PM »

This is such a silly complaint, man.

There's nothing wrong with Obama going out and asking someone to run for a position if he feels that person would do a better job.  If Ellison was such a great candidate he wouldn't have gotten his ass whooped by a "last-minute entrant" (by the way, that "last-minute" was two months before the race, and Perez/Obama probably waited until after the 2016 election to decide).

That isn't an establishment conspiracy to stop Bernie Sanders.  And it's certainly not something that justifies Bernie leading his supporters to boo the "Democratic establishment" over Republicans and Trump.

By the way, wasn't one of Bernie's chief complaints in 2016 that the DNC wasn't impartial, and he wanted it to be impartial?  Why is it a big conspiracy that Ellison didn't become chair, if the point was for the DNC to be impartial?  Could it be that Bernie actually wanted Ellison to make the DNC an arm of the Sanders campaign?

You're assuming either of them acted in good faith, which is a bad start. Perez was apparently extremely reluctant to run in the first place, and was basically shoved in by Obama, or at least that's what every single media outlet said, and then we were told there was no difference in their positions. Why would Perez be forced to run if he and Ellison had fundamentally similar ideas?

Answer: It was a concerted effort to halt a progressive from attaining a leadership position.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #698 on: December 16, 2019, 01:53:21 AM »

This is such a silly complaint, man.

There's nothing wrong with Obama going out and asking someone to run for a position if he feels that person would do a better job.  If Ellison was such a great candidate he wouldn't have gotten his ass whooped by a "last-minute entrant" (by the way, that "last-minute" was two months before the race, and Perez/Obama probably waited until after the 2016 election to decide).

That isn't an establishment conspiracy to stop Bernie Sanders.  And it's certainly not something that justifies Bernie leading his supporters to boo the "Democratic establishment" over Republicans and Trump.

By the way, wasn't one of Bernie's chief complaints in 2016 that the DNC wasn't impartial, and he wanted it to be impartial?  Why is it a big conspiracy that Ellison didn't become chair, if the point was for the DNC to be impartial?  Could it be that Bernie actually wanted Ellison to make the DNC an arm of the Sanders campaign?

You're assuming either of them acted in good faith, which is a bad start. Perez was apparently extremely reluctant to run in the first place, and was basically shoved in by Obama, or at least that's what every single media outlet said, and then we were told there was no difference in their positions. Why would Perez be forced to run if he and Ellison had fundamentally similar ideas?

Answer: It was a concerted effort to halt a progressive from attaining a leadership position.

Maybe Obama, having worked with Perez for several years, thought he would be a more effective leader than the easily-demonized, obviously biased Ellison?

I also don't see what's wrong with trying to stop a Bernie ally from taking over the DNC.  Bernie's obviously playing a partisan game and declared war on the DNC, why isn't the DNC allowed to push back?  Perez easily defeated Ellison so obviously Ellison wasn't a very appealing candidate in the first place.

You're acting like this was all some big conspiracy to stop Sanders from gaining power when there's really no conspiracy to it.  There are a lot of reasons why Obama and the majority of DNC members preferred Perez to Ellison.  Ellison being a pawn of Sanders was one of those reasons.  It probably wasn't the most important reason.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #699 on: December 16, 2019, 02:18:12 AM »

Answer: It was a concerted effort to halt a progressive from attaining a leadership position.

Tom Perez was considered something of a progressive hero too, up until the moment he dared to challenge Ellison.
Supporting Sanders and his minions isn't the be-all end-all of progressivism.
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