Progressives Only: Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren

[JA]

There are many reasons why I'll support Sanders way, way, wayyyy before Warren. And those reasons can be summed up in just one picture:

Donald Trump declares at State of the Union 2019 that 'America will never be socialist' (paraphrasing)

[Pyro]

There are many reasons why I'll support Sanders way, way, wayyyy before Warren. And those reasons can be summed up in just one picture:

(snip)
Donald Trump declares at State of the Union 2019 that 'America will never be socialist' (paraphrasing)

Imagine being a Democrat and applauding Donald Trump.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Bernie, it's not close, and Warren is not my second choice.

Who is #2? You have good insight on these kinds matters and I’d be curious to see your rankings of the candidates.

[Donerail]

Bernie, it's not close, and Warren is not my second choice.

Who is #2? You have good insight on these kinds matters and I’d be curious to see your rankings of the candidates.

I'd probably go with Inslee at the moment as a protest vote for prioritizing climate change

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

There are many reasons why I'll support Sanders way, way, wayyyy before Warren. And those reasons can be summed up in just one picture:

(snip)
Donald Trump declares at State of the Union 2019 that 'America will never be socialist' (paraphrasing)

Imagine being a Democrat and applauding Donald Trump.

Imagine thinking this actually matters.

[Crumpets]

There are many reasons why I'll support Sanders way, way, wayyyy before Warren. And those reasons can be summed up in just one picture:

(snip)
Donald Trump declares at State of the Union 2019 that 'America will never be socialist' (paraphrasing)

Imagine being a Democrat and applauding Donald Trump.

Imagine thinking this actually matters.

Bernie is the master of superficial gestures that do absolutely nothing to impact policy or people's lives. Sadly, that is how a lot of people make their choice of who to vote for, and I wish that people like Warren, Clinton, and other alternatives to Bernie would be better at understanding that and honing their skills.

[TDAS04]

I like both.  Lean Warren. 

[exopolitician]

Warren by a mile

[F. Joe Haydn]

Whichever one has a better chance at winning the nomination when my state comes up for the primary.

This, though since the Caucuses are first in the nation it will be hard to tell who has a better chance.

[NOVA Green]

Although, I like the fact that Warren has devoted roughly the past (24) Years towards issues such as Bankruptcy Protection and Financial/Banking Sector Reform (and is a verifiable expert on these subjects), these issues are peripheral to me, simply because, like many working-class Americans, we don't have enough financial assets on the table to have a stake in the system, and bread and butter issues like minimum wage increases, cost of health insurance, a tax structure that is overwhelmingly geared towards the money bags at the top, while we get no pay raises.

Mind you, Warren's interest in Household Finance precedes her interest in Financial/Banking Sector Reform and defined her approach to Bankruptcy Protection as well. She began working on this issue with Jay Westbrook, her collaborator in As We Forgive Our Debtors when she began teaching at UT Law in 1981. By the mid-1980s she was writing strong arguments against the conservative Law and Economics movement and its tendency to put theoretical economics over the empirical study of households and their situations. But the subject is highly personal for her as it ultimately derives from her childhood experience of her father's heart attack in 1961 and her mother's entry into the workforce. You can see this in her work throughout her career, like in The Two Income Trap, where she points out that single income households have a reserve worker that can pick up the slack.

For Warren, the Household is the unit of the economy and its financial condition is the prism by which she examines the economy more broadly. The 2004 video of her explaining the mechanism of the 2008 financial crisis, you see her framing it in terms of Household Finance. And her policies are built around this frame as well. The biggest household expense is Housing, so she released an aggressive housing plan early. In addition to Healthcare, which already gets a lot of attention, Childcare and Education are huge expenses, and she released detailed plans on those early as well. On the income side? When asked why she's running for president she says because a single minimum wage job is not enough to support a family. This approach of focusing on the micro and personal and expanding out from there is her signature.

That is an interesting take on Warren's political evolution, as well as potentially a window into which to view her political prism, but I'll focus one particular item you mentioned, which is deeply personal to me having been temporarily homeless a few years back after getting laid off from a relatively decent job, but with no savings....

Although she has come forward with a proposal to fund affordable housing through increasing the Estate Tax back to Bush era levels, several billion dollars to struggling mortgage owners, increase of fair housing laws, plus extra loan $$$ for red-lined districts, it won't necessarily scratch the surface of the housing crisis in America.

Granted it is better than the policy positions presented on housing issues by a few of the other DEMs that jumped in but not by much.

Sanders hasn't posted an official "policy position" yet on the subject, however Sanders has extensively spoken about the issues of affordable housing over the Years, and I wouldn't be surprised if we should see something more detailed in the near future from a First Generation Central and Eastern-European Jewish parentage, who grew up living in a rent-controlled apartment in NYC during the Great Depression.

I have problems with the whole "Free Market" solutions to the Housing Crisis that are essentially band aids towards a much broader problem.

The concept of the "ownership society", which was essentially the Conservative approach under Reagan and Thatcher in the 1980s, with the concept that voters that owned their own homes were more likely to vote Republican/Tory than those who rented, has been proven to be an absolute bust, instead lining of pockets of Developers and the Banking Sector than anything else.

The concept of housing mortgage deductions, one of the most popular elements of US Tax Code, has effectively been a mass distribution of wealth, from working and Lower Middle-Class Americans, many of us who live in higher cost housing markets, to Upper-Income Americans that have no crisis of Affordable Housing, but simply want to buy more house for lower cost.

The rest of us the 35%+ of Americans that are renters have no such respite.....

Again, Warren's policy subscriptions seem to rely on traditional political prescriptions (Albeit progressive sounding within the current political environment of the mid 2010s.

We need something bolder..... the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which the US basically wrote after the massive destruction of WW II caused by Nazi/Fascist movements in Europe and Asia, with backing from the other Four major "victors" of WW II under article 25 called for a "RIGHT TO HOUSING".

Not to bag too hard on Warren, since it's great that she's come up with a plan / policy statement, probably better than something officially posted as a Democrat in the past 25+ Years, but we need something more.....

"Article 25.
 
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

There are other places out there that might go into the affordable housing position of DEM candidates competing in the 2020 primaries, but I want to hear more of it, along with other bread and butter issues.

Again, this isn't to score any cheap political points on the Warren vs Sanders "Atlas Support Spectrum", but simply to acknowledge and raise the point that DEM candidates need to talk about this a lot more, and not just in California.....

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-where-2020-presidential-candidates-including-elizabeth-warren-and-kamala-harris-stand-on-affordable-housing-2019-07-25

[Shadows]

Warren is a tool to divide the base. She didn't go to Dakota when it was needed, stayed out of 2016 for fear of angering Clinton, didn't support M4A till every other presidential candidate did & is seemingly open to more moderate ways. She has also said she doesn't rule out PAC money for the GE.

Add to the fact that has poor temperament & massive electability concerns. How is cop Kamala Harris any worse than Warren? Apart from achieving nothing, Warren cant even get elected. And someone with 0 political courage is a failure.

[Technocracy Timmy]

Warren is a tool to divide the base. She didn't go to Dakota when it was needed, stayed out of 2016 for fear of angering Clinton, didn't support M4A till every other presidential candidate did & is seemingly open to more moderate ways. She has also said she doesn't rule out PAC money for the GE.

Add to the fact that has poor temperament & massive electability concerns. How is cop Kamala Harris any worse than Warren? Apart from achieving nothing, Warren cant even get elected. And someone with 0 political courage is a failure.

[RGM2609]

Warren is a tool to divide the base. She didn't go to Dakota when it was needed, stayed out of 2016 for fear of angering Clinton, didn't support M4A till every other presidential candidate did & is seemingly open to more moderate ways. She has also said she doesn't rule out PAC money for the GE.

Add to the fact that has poor temperament & massive electability concerns. How is cop Kamala Harris any worse than Warren? Apart from achieving nothing, Warren cant even get elected. And someone with 0 political courage is a failure.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Warren, Trump hasnt even mentioned Sanders as his opponent when he was naming off Dems, he would face

[Horus]

I like both.  Lean Warren. 

[Stranger in a strange land]

I like both, but I have serious concerns about Warren's ability to defeat Trump.

[Gass3268]

Warren is a tool to divide the base. She didn't go to Dakota when it was needed, stayed out of 2016 for fear of angering Clinton, didn't support M4A till every other presidential candidate did & is seemingly open to more moderate ways. She has also said she doesn't rule out PAC money for the GE.

Add to the fact that has poor temperament & massive electability concerns. How is cop Kamala Harris any worse than Warren? Apart from achieving nothing, Warren cant even get elected. And someone with 0 political courage is a failure.

Stuff like this is why I'd vote for Biden over Sanders if it came down to it.

[Pouring Rain and Blairing Music]

Warren is a tool to divide the base. She didn't go to Dakota when it was needed, stayed out of 2016 for fear of angering Clinton, didn't support M4A till every other presidential candidate did & is seemingly open to more moderate ways. She has also said she doesn't rule out PAC money for the GE.

Add to the fact that has poor temperament & massive electability concerns. How is cop Kamala Harris any worse than Warren? Apart from achieving nothing, Warren cant even get elected. And someone with 0 political courage is a failure.

Stuff like this is why I'd vote for Biden over Sanders if it came down to it.

Wouldn’t go that far, but looking back, I might’ve gone for Hillary over Sanders in 2016.

[Skunk]

Warren. Sanders supporters, with some exceptions, are some of the most annoying people in politics.

[RaphaelDLG]

Warren. Sanders supporters, with some exceptions, are some of the most annoying people in politics.

That's not a valid reason to vote for someone:

"Sorry, person who needs cheap insulin - I'm not going to vote for the other candidate that favors medicare for all because I find his fanboys annoying.  Have fun dying due to my annoyance!"

[Skunk]

Warren. Sanders supporters, with some exceptions, are some of the most annoying people in politics.

That's not a valid reason to vote for someone:

"Sorry, person who needs cheap insulin - I'm not going to vote for the other candidate that favors medicare for all because I find his fanboys annoying.  Have fun dying due to my annoyance!"

Case in point.

[RaphaelDLG]

Warren. Sanders supporters, with some exceptions, are some of the most annoying people in politics.

That's not a valid reason to vote for someone:

"Sorry, person who needs cheap insulin - I'm not going to vote for the other candidate that favors medicare for all because I find his fanboys annoying.  Have fun dying due to my annoyance!"

Case in point.

Wow, what a great logical rejoinder to my perfectly valid criticism of your extremely selfish, solipsistic decision-making process!!

Also FYI, I've donated the same amount of money to both, and I'm just going to vote for whoever is in the lead by the time of the Tennessee Primary, which will very likely be Elizabeth Warren.

I can't figure out who the bigger morons are - media-brainwashed people who reject Sanders because he's a "selfish," "narcissistic," "racist," "misogynistic" "impractical" "non-Democrat" with irritating followers (despite their agreeance with most of his superior, impactful policy programme)...

...or the jimmy dore / jFern types who reject Elizabeth Warren out of hand because she deigns to cultivate political influence every once in a while or occasionally has a position that isn't as progressive as Bernies.  It's a tough contest.

[Skunk]

Warren. Sanders supporters, with some exceptions, are some of the most annoying people in politics.

That's not a valid reason to vote for someone:

"Sorry, person who needs cheap insulin - I'm not going to vote for the other candidate that favors medicare for all because I find his fanboys annoying.  Have fun dying due to my annoyance!"

Case in point.

Wow, what a great logical rejoinder to my perfectly valid criticism of your extremely selfish, solipsistic decision-making process!!

Also FYI, I've donated the same amount of money to both, and I'm just going to vote for whoever is in the lead by the time of the Tennessee Primary, which will very likely be Elizabeth Warren.

I can't figure out who the bigger morons are - media-brainwashed people who reject Sanders because he's a "selfish," "narcissistic," "racist," "misogynistic" "impractical" "non-Democrat" with irritating followers (despite their agreeance with most of his superior, impactful policy programme)...

...or the jimmy dore / jFern types who reject Elizabeth Warren out of hand because she deigns to cultivate political influence every once in a while or occasionally has a position that isn't as progressive as Bernies.  It's a tough contest.

Using the deaths of poor people being exploited by the pharmaceutical industry as some sort of "gotcha" moment is in poor taste and doesn't even make sense when considering both Warren and Sanders have introduced legislation (Affordable Drug Manufacturing Act and Prescription Drug Price Relief Act) for dealing with rising insulin prices.

And I'd be willing to give the Sanders campaign a pass and just write off his more annoying supporters as unhelpful but it's hard to do that when people in charge of his campaign such as Jeff Weaver are encouraging further toxicity by claiming that the mainstream media is rigged against Sanders, causing a sizable chunk of his supporters to go full conspiratorial mode which you apparently seem to be peddling as well if you think I'm being "media-brainwashed".

So as you can see, I'm perfectly capable of giving logical rejoinders or whatever to your posts.

[Wells]

The discussion above is amusing to me because I find Warren supporters more annoying personally.

[Skunk]

The discussion above is amusing to me because I find Warren supporters more annoying personally.

Honestly that's fair too. People on Twitter who compare her to Hermione need to read another book and/or go outside.