UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[Omega21]

Season 3 of Brexit is even more exciting lol

Also, anyone have any statistics on emigration to the EU in recent months? I feel like I'm hearing a lot more Brits here in Vienna recently, but could be just tourists.

[Omega21]

Nigel Farage will withdraw candidates if Boris Johnson goes for ‘no deal’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql4_Ug8NSoU

[Omega21]

Apparently Leadsom says the whip won't be withdrawn now, but perhaps it will be if they vote against the government again tomorrow.

Government sources confirm that the whip is withdrawn, but will be returned in the event of positive  votes tomorrow.

In other words, they got booted out of the party?

You Brits always have some fancy-sounding words for everything

[Omega21]

Apparently Leadsom says the whip won't be withdrawn now, but perhaps it will be if they vote against the government again tomorrow.

Government sources confirm that the whip is withdrawn, but will be returned in the event of positive  votes tomorrow.

In other words, they got booted out of the party?

You Brits always have some fancy-sounding words for everything

You use the time 'whip' in Congress too.

I live in Austria, so I'm not that familiar with Anglo-Saxon law/processes.

So, does "taking away the whip" basically just means kicking someone out?

I know "whipping" is used to discipline votes, but I'm clueless about the taking away thing.

[Omega21]

Maybe the EU will finally come to its senses and refuse any further extension, meaning a default no-deal Brexit unless MPs come to senses and vote for old May's deal. This is wasting everyone's time and it can be used far more productively.

[Omega21]

Maybe the EU will finally come to its senses and refuse any further extension, meaning a default no-deal Brexit unless MPs come to senses and vote for old May's deal. This is wasting everyone's time and it can be used far more productively.

I think France is the only country that has given an indication that they might veto an extension

It definitely should.

I'm no happy Eu flag-waving hippie, but I still think it's more positive on a continent ridden by wars since, well basically, the beginning of history.

The British disagree and voted to leave, and everyone was more than patient. All the politicians over there expect everyone to just wait while they continue milking out as much political credit out of the issue as possible, and that's definitely not what they should be doing.

[Omega21]

So what are the powers of the House of Lords, can they delay the bill until the proroguing of parliament or something similar?

[Omega21]

Guess we will get another season of Dumpster fire politics, hurray!

[Omega21]

Guess we will get another season of Dumpster fire politics, hurray!

We call them skips in the UK. Suggest this thread is renamed to "Blackadder's Skip Fire".

Thanks, now I know some proper British slang!

At least the level of speaking and vocabulary in the UK chambers is fitting for politicians, so at least when bad politicians talk, they don't talk like 9-year-olds, like I often hear from US politicians.

[Omega21]

Lords has passed Benn's bill without amendment, meaning it goes straight for Royal Assent. Prorogation has officially backfired.

Do you think Boris will pull a Blair move now? (i.e. advising the Queen not to give assent)

[Omega21]

Not without triggering an even bigger constitutional crisis... the bill was ruled not to require Queen's Consent and Royal Assent hasn't been refused since Queen Anne was on the throne.

Yeah, I figured as much, I doubt the Queen would even follow his advice anyway.

Well, the best he can hope for is a no-confidence vote, on himself lol

[Omega21]

Don't get your hopes up people, the verdict is not really objective by any means.

He obviously had the right to prorogue it (not that I agree with it), so this is totally uncalled for, and just adds fuel to the smelly fire British Politics has become.

Plus, this doesn't change a single thing Brexit-wise, as the no-deal Law was already passed.

[Omega21]

Ah, an expert in British Constitutional Law are we?

No, but I don't see a single reason he would have no right to prorogue when every other Prime Minister had such rights.

If anyone else does, feel free to point out some precedent.

[Omega21]

For me, 'British Constitutional Law' evokes an image of a team of dusty scholars rummaging through a pile of ancient Post It notes.

No, not that one either, that's the gong scourer duty list from 1732.

[Omega21]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

Yes, a single member can veto it.

Which, I would be for if I actually didn't feel bad for the British people (both Leavers and Remainers).

Some parts of their political system are so insanely rotten, which is pretty clear from the way their politicians have handled Brexit. (Not that they don't do some other things better than Europe)

[Omega21]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

For the umpteenth time: a 👏 Hard 👏 Brexit 👏 would 👏 be 👏 horrific 👏 for 👏 the 👏 UK!

It helps to support the Hard Brexit if you'll be thousands of miles away from the nightmare happening after that.

To be honest I wished someone would veto them as I wanted Europe to get on with other things, but more recently I have changed my position, as the people of Britain (both "deal Leavers" and Remainers) don't deserve to pay for the incompetence of their Leaders and the shortfalls of their political system.

I also doubt 50+% want no deal, so it would be kinda cruel.

However, I would like to see a "Deal - No Deal" Referendum.

The 1st one was held, and the question was answered, the second one would just make things much clearer.

[Omega21]

Just something to lighten up the mood a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaA-rBjFidM

[Omega21]

What is the issue people on the Left have with his plan?

[Omega21]

What is the issue people on the Left have with his plan?

The fact that is ends the UK's membership in the EU is a pretty big problem with it for most people on 'the Left' (kind of a meaningless term in this context).

From an economic interventionist perspective, the deal removes significant guarantees for labour standards, working conditions, environmental regulations, and corporate accountability that are enshrined in EU law. The deal doesn't specifically repeal them, but it grants carte blanche to a government that would wish to. Moreover, with the exception of Northern Ireland, the deal will result in a new no deal cliff edge in 2021 or 2022 when the transition period runs out provided the UK and the EU haven't concluded a new free trade agreement (which itself would have virtually no 'floor' for ruinous deregulation)

Socially/diplomatically/politically, the deal rips the UK from countless institutions of cultural, social, technological, and educational cooperation that have been built up over decades. Relatedly, participation in cooperation with EU agencies along these lines will become a matter of endless rancour and debate; it gives license to the lunatic fringe of xenophobic jingoism.

Finally, not quite a """left""" objection, but the government is insisting upon passing the deal without any parliamentary scrutiny, nevermind economic impact assessment.

Yeah, I meant what's the issue for everyone except the Tories lol.

I do see where you're coming from, I didn't know so many things would still be up in the air even after the deal.

I honestly never even understood some of the reason as to why the UK is leaving. Part of the Brexit campaign was based on Migrants and Asylum Seekers (at least what I saw from the posters), but that actually doesn't make sense, since these people were not from the EU anyway, and the 3rd world Immigrants/Refugees will still continue hiding in Trucks trying to make it across after the UK is out anyway.

In any case, thanks for the detailed answer, and I have another question.

If/Once you leave, will you be treated the same as every other "3rd Country" (non-EU) in terms of immigrating to Europe, or will you keep at least some privileges?

[Omega21]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

[Omega21]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

Stops us leaving with no deal if the ERG pull some sh**t next week & removes the threat of a no deal being used as a hammer against lab leavers

The threat of no-deal is just what all the UK Politicians need to fall in line. They have been extremely unproductive, wasting everyone's time like it's everyone else's responsibility to wait an eternity for them to finally find a solution.

It's a shame the EU didn't lay out the rules clearer, the only way I would grant an extension now would be if the opposition was able to vote Johnson out.

[Omega21]

Johnson claims that if he is defeated on the timetable vote he will pull the agreement and ask for an election.

I don't doubt he would do that, but it's WAY more complicated. He doesn't have the ability to call an election without a good deal of the opposition wishing it to happen.

BoJO: Oh boy, another crucial vote is coming.
House: *inflicts another crucial defeat on the PM*
BoJo: Well, damn. I'm pulling the agreement and asking for an election instead. Now, can you vote with me on dissolving the parliament?
House: Nope.
BoJo: WTF is this? A Groundhog Day? I want to wake up!
House: Nope.

Honestly, not being able to call an election is really, really dumb.

What were the people passing the Election law thinking... Probably something along the lines "How can we make parliament as useless and inefficient as possible"

[Omega21]

Lots of people have long thought the PM being able to simply call an election at the time of their own choosing handed them an unfair inbuilt advantage, and so supported fixed terms.

The principle seems to work well in other countries after all, the problems are with our actual act that was passed (and also tbf that nobody foresaw the present state of affairs actually occurring)

The act is really broken... His Govt. does not even have a majority and I don't see how forcing someone to continue governing with a minority is normal in any way...

British politics has turned into the Government proposing something and then having it rejected over and over again.

In normal countries being the Govt. means you have the means to pass what you are working on, not just spinning around in a political circus which is the House of Commons.

[Omega21]

Lots of people have long thought the PM being able to simply call an election at the time of their own choosing handed them an unfair inbuilt advantage, and so supported fixed terms.

The principle seems to work well in other countries after all, the problems are with our actual act that was passed (and also tbf that nobody foresaw the present state of affairs actually occurring)

The act is really broken... His Govt. does not even have a majority and I don't see how forcing someone to continue governing with a minority is normal in any way...

British politics has turned into the Government proposing something and then having it rejected over and over again.

In normal countries being the Govt. means you have the means to pass what you are working on, not just spinning around in a political circus which is the House of Commons.

The govt have a majority for their domestic legislation & have passed non Brexit bills.

Doesn't matter. If they are being denied bills they are proposing, they should have the right to call an election.

If it takes 50+% of votes to pass a no-confidence vote, why wouldn't their 50% be enough to call a new election?

[Omega21]

I am starting a Go Fund Me to buy a giant saw so that we can saw off the Island and send them North.