Re: Office of PSOL—Beginning of the Institute of Atlasian Progression

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Endorsed! PSOL was a great legislator for Lincoln and will make an even greater legislator for Frémont!

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Whoever knew the right could be this intellectually dishonest? Dumping the people who got you elected once the partnership is no longer convenient for you is sh*tty opportunism at its most transparent —and I know the people in this thread know this because of the public and private tantrums they threw every time DFW (for example) switched parties. Truly hilarious to see circa. 2017 talking points about "the culture in Labor" and "big-tent Federalism" being bandied about again now that the experiment with hard-right purism has ended in abject failure. Back then I would have been offended, but I've since learned not to be surprised by people who will vote to elect anti-semites and bizarro TNF while screeching about civility and pretend their narrative is internally consistent.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Really? I don't think it's a big secret who I was referring to. (Hint: not PSOL.)

The rest of your post is a more succinct summary of what I attempted to say in mine —maybe people will actually read it now!

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Really? I don't think it's a big secret who I was referring to. (Hint: not PSOL.)

The rest of your post is a more succinct summary of what I attempted to say in mine —maybe people will actually read it now!

I haven't a clue who you are talking about. When I make comparisons to TNF, I typically incorporate more than the last act, having served in the Senate with him for two years. Failure to do so renders most such comparisons weak at best.

Pretty sure you just made a comparison based entirely on his last act, but okay. If you really can't think of anyone on your side who rivals the toxicity, ideological rigidity, and disdain for all those outside their closed circle of associates that was TNF's modus operandi, I can't help you.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I don't want to turn this thread into an argument about which villains of history Fhtagn most resembles, but I will point out that I addressed my post to "the right," not you personally, Yankee. Unless you are every right-wing poster and this whole game is your elaborate attempt to find someone who will read your posts. (I should have thought of that!)

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I don't want to turn this thread into an argument about which villains of history Fhtagn most resembles, but I will point out that I addressed my post to "the right," not you personally, Yankee. Unless you are every right-wing poster and this whole game is your elaborate attempt to find someone who will read your posts. (I should have thought of that!)

No, but you are my sock and this thread is my attempt to rival Hamilton and JSoujourner.

Damm*t, I you gave it away!

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

More reruns, I see! FedTV really went downhill after Steve Carell left the show.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Just a reminder to my friends on the left that in absence of federalism, we would have had no recourse to resist the conservative policies being handed down from Nyman during the period of right-wing dominance in 2017–2018. Robust regional governments were the backbone of progressivism then, and may well be again when the tide changes. And while I certainly hold a more positive view of government than some in the Federalist party, the true aim of leftism should be to return power to the people, not to replace government by unelected corporate bureaucrats with government by unelected federal bureaucrats —a goal incompatible with the creation of a centralist unitary state.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Currently, I asked Muaddib of Come In Spinner and Dwarven Dragon’s DNN to co-host. I’d love for you to be one of the panelists though.

This is like if the Babylon Bee and Wolf Blitzer's eyebrows somehow agreed to moderate a debate together IRL.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Many who called the corrupt Fine Gayle leadership a coalition of chaos are now being proven right, by their bad treatment of MFP Ted Bessel. I have held power for many years, but have never needed to resort to "cheats" such as kidnapping in order to successfully threaten and intimidate my members. The choice for Frémonters is simple: strong and stable leadership with me, or chaos with HCP.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Many who called the corrupt Fine Gayle leadership a coalition of chaos are now being proven right, by their bad treatment of MFP Ted Bessel. I have held power for many years, but have never needed to resort to "cheats" such as kidnapping in order to successfully threaten and intimidate my members. The choice for Frémonters is simple: strong and stable leadership with me, or chaos with HCP.

Can you preach to the choir later? A bit inappropriate at this point, no?

I am a first minister for all Frémonters, and that includes choral singers, who are among the finest of our citizens. Please take your disgusting antivocalism elsewhere.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I don't think Laki knows what a "dictatorship" is.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I love parliamentary systems. The problem is that Atlasia is not real life, 90% of legislators have no initiative, and government by committee inevitably leads to nothing getting done. As a practical matter Frémont needs a strong executive to keep the gears turning or parliament would quickly become impotent and ineffective. Hence the Philly Plan has been an unmitigated disaster that only worked when Peanut ran the government as a de facto first minister; one need only observe the string of failed and ineffective chancellors to understand why selecting the head of government by and from the legislature is a terrible idea.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Hence the Philly Plan has been an unmitigated disaster that only worked when Peanut ran the government as a de facto first minister; one need only observe the string of failed and ineffective chancellors to understand why selecting the head of government by and from the legislature is a terrible idea.

Maybe one day someone will actually do something to fix the mess that is Lincoln's current government!

Unfortunately I can only be registered in one region at a time!

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I love parliamentary systems. The problem is that Atlasia is not real life, 90% of legislators have no initiative, and government by committee inevitably leads to nothing getting done. As a practical matter Frémont needs a strong executive to keep the gears turning or parliament would quickly become impotent and ineffective. Hence the Philly Plan has been an unmitigated disaster that only worked when Peanut ran the government as a de facto first minister; one need only observe the string of failed and ineffective chancellors to understand why selecting the head of government by and from the legislature is a terrible idea.

Well not exactly, as in the case I described the powers of FM would just go to the Speaker and would be decided exactly the same. This way, the curse of lesser evilism is reduced completely and would empower the voters into being impactful.

I think the best way to empower the voters is to let them chose the head of government directly, but perhaps that's just me. Practical experience disproves the first part of your paragraph, but we won't let facts get in the way of a good story, as Yankee likes to say.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

This is not a spy thriller with cloak and dagger scheming. Its an elections game with no secret ballot and everyone living in very close quarters, 90% of the time anything convoluted or involving too many moving parts will always blow up in your face. Yea you have strategy and occasionally some clandestine dealing but on the whole if start to think you are Jason Bourne or James Bond you might want to reconsider your choice in gaming.

None of that would work out as you envisioned. The Speaker is a paper pusher, who merely advances the bills expeditiously and their competence is the only relevant factor. Who actually controls it is irrelevant to the functioning of the system as long as they do their job.

Either that or you don't understand the right or the left in this game at all. Which considering how this worked out, is very possible.

THIS.

I'm remembering a certain poster (who shall remain nameless) who tried to get "revenge" on the two major parties by initiating a convoluted blackmail scheme that ended with his being laughed out of the game by a bemused public. Some people seem to miss two essential points when they join this game: this is not real life and optics don't matter. The only people who pay attention to AFE are the active players, who are almost to-a-man party insiders and elected officials. The result is that attempts to manipulate "public opinion" with RL tactics never work (the people reading already decided who they were voting for months, in some cases years, ago), while making a fool of yourself by acting like a character from House of Cards will burn bridges and ensure you have no future in the game —because yes, you can't be elected president or wield significant power by yourself. That what some people seem to have learned from this is, "I should be more controlling and insane" is just hilarious.

This is politics and sometimes you do have to get down in the mud and wring the other guy's neck, but don't try to be cute about it. There's a reason Adam's reputation as "an honest *sshole" got him four terms in the White House, while this scheme imploded after a month. People might not like it when you attack them in public, but they know what to expect. Acting out some weird Machiavellian fantasy where you lie to everyone and then reveal your brilliant plan was to shoot yourself in the foot only makes you seem unreliable. People will vote for someone they loathe, but they won't vote for someone they think could blow up at any moment, taking them out in the process. Hence why Labor has been able to work with Yankee and Lumine (among others) in the past, while basically everyone expected the deal with Laki to implode even as it was being negotiated.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

This is not a spy thriller with cloak and dagger scheming. Its an elections game with no secret ballot and everyone living in very close quarters, 90% of the time anything convoluted or involving too many moving parts will always blow up in your face. Yea you have strategy and occasionally some clandestine dealing but on the whole if start to think you are Jason Bourne or James Bond you might want to reconsider your choice in gaming.

None of that would work out as you envisioned. The Speaker is a paper pusher, who merely advances the bills expeditiously and their competence is the only relevant factor. Who actually controls it is irrelevant to the functioning of the system as long as they do their job.

Either that or you don't understand the right or the left in this game at all. Which considering how this worked out, is very possible.

.

snip

Yeah, if I wanted to do "dirty things" I would do it to people who would have a chance of succeeding and do it discretely because I don't want to piss off the other side even more, but in Laki's case, the pressure must have been hard on him, and I wouldn't envy being in his position.

Yeah, in order to win, you have to PM zombies who would have likely never joined hadn't someone in Labor PMed them in 2019/2018 to "SMASH THE RIGHT WINGERS" and will never see a page in Atlasia.

It's not a matter of discretion, it's understanding who your audience is and how your actions reflect back on you. Every action is also a statement —about who you are and how you do business. "Pissing off the other side" is perfectly acceptable, even sometimes necessary the problem with what Laki did is that he told different stories to different people, and that this fits into a larger narrative of him changing course frequently and seemingly at random. Voting for Cao to f*** Labor, or voting with Labor to gain influence over the left, are both solid strategies depending on what your goals are. People don't need to like you to work with you, but they do need to be able to trust that you will keep any promises you make. This has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with the practical work of relationship-building: it's really not surprising that Atlas, that home of the nervous and socially inept, produces so many would-be politicians who fundamentally do not understand how to read the room.