2nd DEM Debate Thread: July 30 & 31, Detroit (MI), CNN

[Shadows]

If Warren doesn't stand out, then atlas folks should demand she drop out immediately as she is in 3rd place in Iowa NH & SC & if she drops out Bernie can win Iowa & NH & stop Biden.

Only seems fair now that she is in 3rd place in the polls. She will be a good candidate for Mnuchin's role.

[brucejoel99]

If Warren doesn't stand out, then atlas folks should demand she drop out immediately as she is in 3rd place in Iowa NH & SC & if she drops out Bernie can win Iowa & NH & stop Biden.

Only seems fair now that she is in 3rd place in the polls. She will be a good candidate for Mnuchin's role.

As if we're a major constituency within the Democratic Party lmao

[Comrade Funk]

If Warren doesn't stand out, then atlas folks should demand she drop out immediately as she is in 3rd place in Iowa NH & SC & if she drops out Bernie can win Iowa & NH & stop Biden.

Only seems fair now that she is in 3rd place in the polls. She will be a good candidate for Mnuchin's role.

The cult of Bernie, ladies and gentlemen.

[Shadows]

If Warren doesn't stand out, then atlas folks should demand she drop out immediately as she is in 3rd place in Iowa NH & SC & if she drops out Bernie can win Iowa & NH & stop Biden.

Only seems fair now that she is in 3rd place in the polls. She will be a good candidate for Mnuchin's role.

The cult of Bernie, ladies and gentlemen.

This is logic. You as a Warren supporter should demand that she drop out. You had a lot of folks even in Bernie threads asking him to endorse Warren & go away. She is also unelectable in the general as well.

Anyways I don't want to derail this thread & let us stick to the topic. Bit if she doesn't stand out in the debates & in 3rd or 4th in the polls in early states, it is fair to ask her to drop out. The atlas crowd anyways demand people to.drop out way before Iowa based on meaningless polls.

[brucejoel99]

If Warren doesn't stand out, then atlas folks should demand she drop out immediately as she is in 3rd place in Iowa NH & SC & if she drops out Bernie can win Iowa & NH & stop Biden.

Only seems fair now that she is in 3rd place in the polls. She will be a good candidate for Mnuchin's role.

The cult of Bernie, ladies and gentlemen.

This is logic. You as a Warren supporter should demand that she drop out. You had a lot of folks even in Bernie threads asking him to endorse Warren & go away. She is also unelectable in the general as well.

Anyways I don't want to derail this thread & let us stick to the topic. Bit if she doesn't stand out in the debates & in 3rd or 4th in the polls in early states, it is fair to ask her to drop out. The atlas crowd anyways demand people to.drop out way before Iowa based on meaningless polls.

I'm not even a Warren supporter but why should she drop out when she's starting to consistently tie &/or even poll ahead of Bernie? That's like Hillary suggesting during the 2008 primaries that Obama should be her VP even though he was already ahead of her in polls, votes, & delegates at the time.

[JRP1994]

This is getting off topic, but isn't Bernie the major candidate who consistently polls highest when voters are asked who they have a negative view of/don't want to become the nominee? Last I checked he's either leading that pack or second behind de Blasio. A solid 20-25% of Dems have a negative view of him and don't want him to be the nominee, which is significantly higher than Warren and higher than any of the other major candidates.

Poor Bernie, if only those accomplished women (HRC, Kamala, Warren) would get out of the way, he might win something other than statewide election in a state smaller than Columbus OH

[beesley]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

[Gustaf]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

No?

Yeah, lol, no. Bernie has enough of a base that he can't be counted out until the voting starts, IMO.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This is getting off topic, but isn't Bernie the major candidate who consistently polls highest when voters are asked who they have a negative view of/don't want to become the nominee? Last I checked he's either leading that pack or second behind de Blasio. A solid 20-25% of Dems have a negative view of him and don't want him to be the nominee, which is significantly higher than Warren and higher than any of the other major candidates.

Poor Bernie, if only those accomplished women (HRC, Kamala, Warren) would get out of the way, he might win something other than statewide election in a state smaller than Columbus OH

Bernie has the best favorable ratings among Democrats of any candidate in both the latest Morning Consult and Gallup polls.

[The Mikado]

This is getting off topic, but isn't Bernie the major candidate who consistently polls highest when voters are asked who they have a negative view of/don't want to become the nominee? Last I checked he's either leading that pack or second behind de Blasio. A solid 20-25% of Dems have a negative view of him and don't want him to be the nominee, which is significantly higher than Warren and higher than any of the other major candidates.

Poor Bernie, if only those accomplished women (HRC, Kamala, Warren) would get out of the way, he might win something other than statewide election in a state smaller than Columbus OH

Bernie has the best favorable ratings among Democrats of any candidate in both the latest Morning Consult and Gallup polls.

Close enough that your point is taken, but not technically true.

https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary/

Biden 73/19
Sanders 71/20

He's significantly higher than everyone else.

Closest other is Warren at 61/16.

[Kleine Scheiße]

All I'd change is I'd swap out Booker for Williamson, and Inslee for Warren on night two. That would just be for personal entertainment, though.

[pops]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

[brucejoel99]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

Still no, because Warren won't attack Bernie.

[pops]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

Still no, because Warren won't attack Bernie.

Why wouldn't she? She knows she has an advantage over Bernie on the whole staff unionization thing with all the recent news coming out that Bernie's campaign is terrible to his staff. I'm sure she has the upper hand on a number of other issues too.

[brucejoel99]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

Still no, because Warren won't attack Bernie.

Why wouldn't she? She knows she has an advantage over Bernie on the whole staff unionization thing with all the recent news coming out that Bernie's campaign is terrible to his staff. I'm sure she has the upper hand on a number of other issues too.

Because Warren's gonna eventually need Bernie's supporters to make any significant advancement toward the nomination. Potentially pissing them off by going after Bernie doesn't serve to help her do that.

[beesley]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

Still no, because Warren won't attack Bernie.

Why wouldn't she? She knows she has an advantage over Bernie on the whole staff unionization thing with all the recent news coming out that Bernie's campaign is terrible to his staff. I'm sure she has the upper hand on a number of other issues too.

Because Warren's gonna eventually need Bernie's supporters to make any significant advancement toward the nomination. Potentially pissing them off by going after Bernie doesn't serve to help her do that.

There are undoubtedly the easiest supporters to piss off.

[beesley]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

Still no, because Warren won't attack Bernie.

Why wouldn't she? She knows she has an advantage over Bernie on the whole staff unionization thing with all the recent news coming out that Bernie's campaign is terrible to his staff. I'm sure she has the upper hand on a number of other issues too.

Because Warren's gonna eventually need Bernie's supporters to make any significant advancement toward the nomination. Potentially pissing them off by going after Bernie doesn't serve to help her do that.

There are undoubtedly the easiest supporters to piss off.

[Zaybay]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

Still no, because Warren won't attack Bernie.

Why wouldn't she? She knows she has an advantage over Bernie on the whole staff unionization thing with all the recent news coming out that Bernie's campaign is terrible to his staff. I'm sure she has the upper hand on a number of other issues too.

Besides the personal aspect(the two are rather great friends) and the political aspect already mentioned(both Sanders and Warren need the others voters to win the nomination), theres also the well-known fact that Sanders and Warren agreed to a non-aggression pact. Warren isnt going to go after Sanders, and vice-versa, its just not worth it for either.

[Rookie Yinzer]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

Still no, because Warren won't attack Bernie.

Why wouldn't she? She knows she has an advantage over Bernie on the whole staff unionization thing with all the recent news coming out that Bernie's campaign is terrible to his staff. I'm sure she has the upper hand on a number of other issues too.

Besides the personal aspect(the two are rather great friends) and the political aspect already mentioned(both Sanders and Warren need the others voters to win the nomination), theres also the well-known fact that Sanders and Warren agreed to a non-aggression pact. Warren isnt going to go after Sanders, and vice-versa, its just not worth it for either.

Non-aggression pact? Where is the source on that? Bernie has definitely said some shady and snarky things that teetered on coming for Warren.

[Zaybay]

We all agree that Bernie's campaign basically ends in 9 days, right?

Depends what you mean by ends - whether it's when he suspends, when it becomes clear that he won't win, or that he has a terrible performance and therefore moves into the same zone as Buttigieg etc.

I predict that he goes onstage with Warren, they agree for 95% of the debate, Warren is already killing him in the debate via saying what he's saying with a lot more energy and enthusiasm, and she'll hit him on one little thing and it'll send him down to just under 10%. Not a dramatic thing but enough to make it clear he has no shot at the nom.

Still no, because Warren won't attack Bernie.

Why wouldn't she? She knows she has an advantage over Bernie on the whole staff unionization thing with all the recent news coming out that Bernie's campaign is terrible to his staff. I'm sure she has the upper hand on a number of other issues too.

Besides the personal aspect(the two are rather great friends) and the political aspect already mentioned(both Sanders and Warren need the others voters to win the nomination), theres also the well-known fact that Sanders and Warren agreed to a non-aggression pact. Warren isnt going to go after Sanders, and vice-versa, its just not worth it for either.

Non-aggression pact? Where is the source on that? Bernie has definitely said some shady and snarky things that teetered on coming for Warren.

Here are some articles discussing the subject:
https://nypost.com/2019/06/23/bernie-sanders-and-liz-warren-turn-on-each-other-and-other-commentary/

Before Sens. Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders announced their presidential runs, they agreed to “not go after each other directly on the campaign trail,” according to New York magazine’s Gabriel Debenedetti

-https://www.pasadenaweekly.com/2019/06/27/now-is-the-time-for-democrats-to-consider-a-sanders-warren-ticket/

In keeping with the Warren-Sanders non-aggression pact, Sanders chose not to speak the same day.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/sanders-and-warren-had-a-non-aggression-deal-is-it-over.html

Cable News also discussed the pact in the leadup and after the CNN drawings for the debate.

Though by all accounts, the pact is still on and its highly unlikely that either candidate goes after the other.

[eric82oslo]

Yang will go hard after Michael Bennet in the second debate.

[rhg2052]

Yang will go hard after Michael Bennet in the second debate.

??

[°Leprechaun]

It wouldn't surprise me if the four top tier candidates remain in the race until the IOWA caucus. Based on current trends one of them will come in first, although since it is still early, I could be wrong. Unless there is a brokered convention I think that it is unlikely that anyone else than one of them get the nomination.

Winning Iowa is very helpful, but I don't think that it guarantees that that candidate will end up the nominee.

As far as the debates go, it could eliminate one or more (like the first eliminated Swalwell).

[GeorgiaModerate]

Yang will go hard after Michael Bennet in the second debate.

??

Yang and Bennet have been having some fun sniping at each on Twitter about the debate.  See https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/454938-andrew-yang-and-michael-bennet-engage-in-satirical-pre-debate-twitter-feud for several of the tweets.

[The Mikado]

Yang will go hard after Michael Bennet in the second debate.

??

Yang and Bennet have been having some fun sniping at each on Twitter about the debate.  See https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/454938-andrew-yang-and-michael-bennet-engage-in-satirical-pre-debate-twitter-feud for several of the tweets.

My read is that Yang and Bennet (who are preexisting friends) have decided to try to exploit the "attack someone, that person gets 30 second response" rule. If Yang ends every statement by saying "...and that's why I want to institute the Freedom Dividend, unlike Senator Bennet," and Bennet ends statements "And I have real experience working in education, not like some people here, Mr. Yang," it'll get them both a lot more time to talk.