11 year old rape victim forced to carry to term thanks to Ohio law.

[Badger]

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

I am so very smart, he thought to himself as he typed his latest brilliant retort, nearly unable to contain his giddiness at the thought of a traumatized 11 year old rape victim facing permanent disability and possible death as she’s forced to give birth to a likely-unviable fetus with severe health complications. I’m the complete package. Unending compassion, a paragon of morality and virtue, and the most brilliant mind of this generation.

Obviously what she is going through is horrible, but the baby shouldn't be murdered for the crimes of the father.

Would you be so cavalier if someone in your family or a friend was in such a position?

Yes, as long as the pregnancy wasn't going to kill them.  And I would be willing to give most of my money if that was required for the child to live.

I happily called bullsh**t. If so, contact your local hospitals. You will have the opportunity to do so tonight if you wish. But then you know that, don't you?

[Badger]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

Of course not. Free speech and all that.

However, too criticize them in the language and tone that they fully deserve, that of course will be stop down for The Chronic fear of most moderators that we somehow create "a liberal Echo chamber"

[Badger]

Condoning pedophilia is not normal. Maybe in your neck of the woods.

Believing that an unborn baby shouldn't be killed because of a crime he didn't commit doesn't mean you're glad said crime took place, nor does it mean you think it should happen more often.

A strawman. You mean like referring to a zy g o t e as a baby?

[Badger]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

Incredibly normal beliefs that are soon to be the law of the land being bannable! Classic!

Maybe we shouldn't have let the rapist come to America in the first place.

WOW. You should probably speak with a professional about that...

I regularly communicate with @RealDonaldTrump on the Twitter. We are doing the best we can.

You're trolling abilities have truly disintegrated. Step it up!

[Badger]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

That may not be necessary, having died during childbirth.

That would be highly unlikely today in America.

If you're an 11-years old the risk is significant, whether it's in America or some sub-Saharan poverty-ridden backwater, maybe to a diffrent degree but still. And if she were to survive, the risk of permanent disability that would in many cases essentially mean a delayed death sentence is probably even higher. Even if the chances were 50-50 or much less, it's still mind-blowingly cruel to subject the girl to that.

It's interesting some people seems to subscribe to the notion of the life beginning at conception and ending at birth, because this is essentially what the whole matter boils down to, whether they realize this or, more likely, just don't want to leave their comfy bubble of dogma. Maybe you guys should sit down and try to see the actual human factor here, not just some abstract ideological stuff.

You could at least cite former Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) as the formulator of the highlighted phrase, lol.

I've been face to face with the "human factor", and I'm not alone.  In my personal life, I have had at least one grandchild aborted (that I know of).  My son and his girlfriend had always known that my wife and I would do whatever was needed for grandchildren, even if that involved raising the child ourselves, at our own expense.  No questions asked.  As both he and his girlfriend were rather dysfunctional at that time, we made it clear that we would not be dogging them for money; our only concern would be that we would have, through adoption or permanent guardianship, total authority in raising the child.  I was not going to willingly raise a child at the direction of people who were out to lunch.  (I was prepared to compromise as much as necessary for a child's sake, however.)

I know many Christians who are of the same mind, not just in advocacy, but in fact.  The not wanting to adopt or be bothered with children once they're born is, quite frankly, more typical of the pro-choice crowd, many of whom pontificate as to the needs of children, but find them a pain in the rear end when they have to deal with them.  They're the kind of secular grandparents who like visits from grandkids, but rejoice that they "go home".  Now I get that, but the idea that pro-life folks don't put their money and resources where their mouths are is just ridiculous.

What Christians DO view as important is encouraging childbirth within the context of marriage and family.  This is disrespected and blown off by many here, but it is a concept that is indispensable to the stability of a modern society.  Christians are right to question a welfare system that, however unintentionally, encourages out-of-wedlock births and discourages marriage for economic reasons.  Christians also contribute to the funding of any number of crisis pregnancy centers that provide all sorts of assistance for persons beset with untimely pregnancies.

Of course, the Barney Frank Throwaway Line is mostly horse manure.  How many people here would be OK in turning America into a pro-life Sweden; a Social Democracy where abortion is not legal, but there are the sort of cradle-to-grave benefits for folks that the Swedes have?  I'm for it; how about you?  Would you be OK with a Pro-Life Social Democratic America, where children are "taken care of"?  Where "life doesn't end at birth"?  If abolition of the Death Penalty was thrown in, would you be all in with Fuzzy Bear's Pro-Life Welfare State?  I'll even throw in the elimination of right-to-work laws; who's with me?

You are completely missing the point, fuzzy. Yes, many of us would gladly adopt scandinavian-style economic policies because they make children and their upbringing much better for everyone, and frankly for some of us reflect the teachings of Christ much more than sh**ting on gays and defining a three-day-old microscopic cluster of cells as a baby ever would.

But that's again not the point. The point is that pro-lifers like yourself so blithely and unconditionally want to enforce this type of child rearing upon millions of young women, but almost uniformly refuse to take responsibility for the outcome. In other words, when you and your ilk are the ones who demand bringing millions of unwanted and unplanned pregnancies to term, the burden is on you to show that the same government enforcing such a Draconian laws going to likewise take responsibility for the inevitable outcome and disastrous social impact of millions of largely lower-income women now having children with generally little support or income. The burden of proof is on you guys. Just because some of us think it'd be a damn good idea to do regardless does it mean that pro-lifers get to skip that argument. Frankly, it's impossible to take any pro-life or who doesn't legitimately address the issue serious either as a legislator, a Christian, or frankly even a human being

[Badger]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

[7,052,770]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

That's borderline irony ore mine material, since a rape exception is the default position of the party of your and Badger's avatar color.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

That's borderline irony ore mine material, since a rape exception is the default position of the party of your and Badger's avatar color.

There are no exceptions listed in the GOP platform:

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf

[7,052,770]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

That's borderline irony ore mine material, since a rape exception is the default position of the party of your and Badger's avatar color.

There are no exceptions listed in the GOP platform:

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf

And yet the last presidential nominee to believe in a "no exceptions" policy was ... nobody?

Party platforms mean little. I think you know that "abortion illegal even in the case of rape" is not the majority position of Republican politicians or Republican voters.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

That's borderline irony ore mine material, since a rape exception is the default position of the party of your and Badger's avatar color.

There are no exceptions listed in the GOP platform:

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf

And yet the last presidential nominee to believe in a "no exceptions" policy was ... nobody?

Party platforms mean little. I think you know that "abortion illegal even in the case of rape" is not the majority position of Republican politicians or Republican voters.

Good thing that popularity will never determine truth (but I do think most Republican politicians are of the no exceptions or only for the life of the mother variety).  Even relative "moderates" like Rubio are no exceptions.

[DrScholl]

At one time no exceptions was only the standard among very far-right conservatives, but it seems as if no exceptions is not being pushed in policy. Pushing for no exceptions even for rape is a bridge too far for a lot of voters and Republicans are going to alienate even more people if they push this.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

It's frankly disturbing how some in this thread minimize how absolutely horrific it is to force a CHILD to carry her rapist's child to term, to have her pregnancy as a constant reminder of what happened to her, and to suffer the consequences the pregnancy may have on her health or on her education. I'm guessing that a vast majority (or all) of you never have and never will have to endure something so distressing, but of course that's part of what makes it so easy to stand on the sidelines and cling to some sense of higher morality.

But truly, this is only the logical extension of "life begins at conception" rhetoric. Anyone who claims that abortion is murder doesn't really believe that abortion is murder if they support any exceptions to an abortion ban, which ultimately undermines the ideology of the majority of conservatives who support rape/incest/health exemptions. The other option, of course, is that you completely prohibit abortion under any circumstance. So, pro-lifers can either be inconsistent or extremely draconian, neither of which I find to be particularly desirable qualities. But I suppose the former is superior to the latter just because of awful, awful situations like this.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

That's borderline irony ore mine material, since a rape exception is the default position of the party of your and Badger's avatar color.

There are no exceptions listed in the GOP platform:

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL%5B1%5D-ben_1468872234.pdf

And yet the last presidential nominee to believe in a "no exceptions" policy was ... nobody?

Party platforms mean little. I think you know that "abortion illegal even in the case of rape" is not the majority position of Republican politicians or Republican voters.

Good thing that popularity will never determine truth (but I do think most Republican politicians are of the no exceptions or only for the life of the mother variety).  Even relative "moderates" like Rubio are no exceptions.

If Marco Rubio is a "relative moderate," the word "moderate" has lost any and all meaning in today's political sphere (not that we didn't already know that).

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

There's really no reason for anybody to be pro-"life"

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

Yeah, because you guys willing to put another child at the risk of death or permanent injury is not heartless at all.

[afleitch]

There's really no reason for anybody to be pro-"life"

You can be pro-life. But it can only be reasonably and morally exercised in a social and political discourse that allows for a freedom to choose.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

People like Badger, who think themselves to be "good people" (and he probably is at an Earthly level) have blinders to the Eternal aspects of situations such as these.  Such a situation makes no sense; a loving God allowing an event such as this to happen.  They are not capable of imagining a plan for both of these lives where each could be blessed beyond human comprehension.

I would not wish such a plight for any of my granddaughters, and I would be taking many thoughts captive if such a thing happened.  But I don't believe that any life is a mistake, and I believe that the Ways of God are, indeed, far above our own ways.  This sounds awful to some, but the alternative here is what others are suggesting, which is "Kill the innocent unborn human and let everyone else forget about it."  That's not more realistic than what I speak of, but I don't expect most people to see this through their Spiritual Blinders (and, yes, many here are blinded to Spiritual realities).  That may sound snotty and condescending, but it is the only way to explain the chasm here.  The carnal cannot see through Spiritual eyes given them by the Holy Spirit.  This is reality also; as real as the sky being blue on a sunny day.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Or: innocent child allowed to live their life thanks to Ohio law.

Are you willing to pay more tax to support that child, since an 11 year old mother obviously cannot?

By this logic we shouldn't have any laws at all.

That.. That, does it make even an ounce of sense. That's not even a cogent argument. I'm not even sure that's English. What in God's name are you even trying to communicate??

If my unwillingness to pay more taxes in general (I'd agree to a tax increase in exchange for a ban on abortion) means that my opposition to abortion is invalid, it also means that my support for enforcing laws against murder are also invalid.

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

I am so very smart, he thought to himself as he typed his latest brilliant retort, nearly unable to contain his giddiness at the thought of a traumatized 11 year old rape victim facing permanent disability and possible death as she’s forced to give birth to a likely-unviable fetus with severe health complications. I’m the complete package. Unending compassion, a paragon of morality and virtue, and the most brilliant mind of this generation.

Obviously what she is going through is horrible, but the baby shouldn't be murdered for the crimes of the father.

Would you be so cavalier if someone in your family or a friend was in such a position?

Yes, as long as the pregnancy wasn't going to kill them.  And I would be willing to give most of my money if that was required for the child to live.

I happily called bullsh**t. If so, contact your local hospitals. You will have the opportunity to do so tonight if you wish. But then you know that, don't you?

Any hospital that performed abortions wouldn't be interested.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Ohio also wants to ban many forms of birth control, including The Pill.

https://twitter.com/innovationohio/status/1126096661124657152

Do people not realize how illogical it is to be against abortion and against birth control at the same time? how dumb can you be.

The pill can cause abortion.  I am not against forms of birth control that can only work before fertilization, but, since life begins at fertilization, it is unacceptable for a form of "contraception" to stop an already fertilized life from implanting.  I don't know that I would call it murder, since that wasn't the main intent, but perhaps manslaughter (if people really understood that the pill IS sometimes an abortion).

That is a 19th century definition of abortion and you know it. This involves you cramming your religious views down the throats of others. To say a barely fertilized egg is a baby in order to get rate of birth control is the product either of ignorance or chronic incel status. Frankly, I guess both

Some views need to be crammed down other people's throats.  You and I have blue avatars, in reference to a party that forced its anti-slavery views on those who had different values than them.

[Person Man]

Ohio also wants to ban many forms of birth control, including The Pill.

https://twitter.com/innovationohio/status/1126096661124657152

Do people not realize how illogical it is to be against abortion and against birth control at the same time? how dumb can you be.

The pill can cause abortion.  I am not against forms of birth control that can only work before fertilization, but, since life begins at fertilization, it is unacceptable for a form of "contraception" to stop an already fertilized life from implanting.  I don't know that I would call it murder, since that wasn't the main intent, but perhaps manslaughter (if people really understood that the pill IS sometimes an abortion).

That is a 19th century definition of abortion and you know it. This involves you cramming your religious views down the throats of others. To say a barely fertilized egg is a baby in order to get rate of birth control is the product either of ignorance or chronic incel status. Frankly, I guess both

Some views need to be crammed down other people's throats.  You and I have blue avatars, in reference to a party that forced its anti-slavery views on those who had different values than them.

How did that work out?

[Badger]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

Zygote. Z y g o t e.  "Child".

I can respect an individual's philosophical or religious view that life begins at conception. But I absolutely Throw Down The Gauntlet when such religious fanatic such as yourself intended cream that very narrow sectarian and vastly not Universal belief on the rest of the population.

And let us not forget yet again that your interest in Your government protecting this "Child" ends the moment they are born.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Ah, once again we've got the slavery mentioned. That's the closest to the Godwin Law without Hitler as you can get.

[Badger]

Or: innocent child allowed to live their life thanks to Ohio law.

Are you willing to pay more tax to support that child, since an 11 year old mother obviously cannot?

By this logic we shouldn't have any laws at all.

That.. That, does it make even an ounce of sense. That's not even a cogent argument. I'm not even sure that's English. What in God's name are you even trying to communicate??

If my unwillingness to pay more taxes in general (I'd agree to a tax increase in exchange for a ban on abortion) means that my opposition to abortion is invalid, it also means that my support for enforcing laws against murder are also invalid.

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

I am so very smart, he thought to himself as he typed his latest brilliant retort, nearly unable to contain his giddiness at the thought of a traumatized 11 year old rape victim facing permanent disability and possible death as she’s forced to give birth to a likely-unviable fetus with severe health complications. I’m the complete package. Unending compassion, a paragon of morality and virtue, and the most brilliant mind of this generation.

Obviously what she is going through is horrible, but the baby shouldn't be murdered for the crimes of the father.

Would you be so cavalier if someone in your family or a friend was in such a position?

Yes, as long as the pregnancy wasn't going to kill them.  And I would be willing to give most of my money if that was required for the child to live.

I happily called bullsh**t. If so, contact your local hospitals. You will have the opportunity to do so tonight if you wish. But then you know that, don't you?

Any hospital that performed abortions wouldn't be interested.

Your first point has literally no logical basis. Your second one I happily called bullsh**t on again.

[Badger]

Enough. This thread is just reinforced to me that old Atlas conservatives, with only a handful of exceptions, are by and large among the most brainless and heartless individuals even the internet can produce. Just pathetic.

Get a red avatar at the least if you think that us asking for a child not to be murdered is heartless.

People like Badger, who think themselves to be "good people" (and he probably is at an Earthly level) have blinders to the Eternal aspects of situations such as these.  Such a situation makes no sense; a loving God allowing an event such as this to happen.  They are not capable of imagining a plan for both of these lives where each could be blessed beyond human comprehension.

I would not wish such a plight for any of my granddaughters, and I would be taking many thoughts captive if such a thing happened.  But I don't believe that any life is a mistake, and I believe that the Ways of God are, indeed, far above our own ways.  This sounds awful to some, but the alternative here is what others are suggesting, which is "Kill the innocent unborn human and let everyone else forget about it."  That's not more realistic than what I speak of, but I don't expect most people to see this through their Spiritual Blinders (and, yes, many here are blinded to Spiritual realities).  That may sound snotty and condescending, but it is the only way to explain the chasm here.  The carnal cannot see through Spiritual eyes given them by the Holy Spirit.  This is reality also; as real as the sky being blue on a sunny day.

It just dawned on me. Fuzzy, you were saying you are happily ready and willing for your daughter to do prison time for having an abortion? Because let's remember dear little Defenders of human life, but that is exactly what these laws entail.