11 year old rape victim forced to carry to term thanks to Ohio law.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

Incredibly normal beliefs that are soon to be the law of the land being bannable! Classic!

Maybe we shouldn't have let the rapist come to America in the first place.

WOW. You should probably speak with a professional about that...

I regularly communicate with @RealDonaldTrump on the Twitter. We are doing the best we can.

Did you "recommend" your own post? It was JUST posted and it has one "recommendation". I think that's considered a faux pas, my dear boy.

Did you just post completely incorrectly? I'll generously fix that quoting for you.

And do you understand that you literally cannot recommend your own post AND can see who did recommend it by literally clicking "1 recommend" - so not, I am not the one who doesn't fail at using this forum. What a pathetic comeback.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Ohio also wants to ban many forms of birth control, including The Pill.

https://twitter.com/innovationohio/status/1126096661124657152

Do people not realize how illogical it is to be against abortion and against birth control at the same time? how dumb can you be.

The pill can cause abortion.  I am not against forms of birth control that can only work before fertilization, but, since life begins at fertilization, it is unacceptable for a form of "contraception" to stop an already fertilized life from implanting.  I don't know that I would call it murder, since that wasn't the main intent, but perhaps manslaughter (if people really understood that the pill IS sometimes an abortion).

A fertilized egg is a baby? what's next, every sperm is sacred?

I, for one, believe that life begins at arousal.

So to kill the romantic mood is like killing an unborn life?

Somebody ought to do something with this.

[Person Man]

Ohio also wants to ban many forms of birth control, including The Pill.

https://twitter.com/innovationohio/status/1126096661124657152

Do people not realize how illogical it is to be against abortion and against birth control at the same time? how dumb can you be.

The pill can cause abortion.  I am not against forms of birth control that can only work before fertilization, but, since life begins at fertilization, it is unacceptable for a form of "contraception" to stop an already fertilized life from implanting.  I don't know that I would call it murder, since that wasn't the main intent, but perhaps manslaughter (if people really understood that the pill IS sometimes an abortion).

A fertilized egg is a baby? what's next, every sperm is sacred?

I, for one, believe that life begins at arousal.

So to kill the romantic mood is like killing an unborn life?

Somebody ought to do something with this.

As if we were already feeling bad enough when we lost our chance to score.

[Pouring Rain and Blairing Music]

Ohio also wants to ban many forms of birth control, including The Pill.

https://twitter.com/innovationohio/status/1126096661124657152

Do people not realize how illogical it is to be against abortion and against birth control at the same time? how dumb can you be.

The pill can cause abortion.  I am not against forms of birth control that can only work before fertilization, but, since life begins at fertilization, it is unacceptable for a form of "contraception" to stop an already fertilized life from implanting.  I don't know that I would call it murder, since that wasn't the main intent, but perhaps manslaughter (if people really understood that the pill IS sometimes an abortion).

A fertilized egg is a baby? what's next, every sperm is sacred?

I, for one, believe that life begins at arousal.

So to kill the romantic mood is like killing an unborn life?

Somebody ought to do something with this.

As if we were already feeling bad enough when we lost our chance to score.

Just think, if the woman was aroused, that’s another life snuffed out and you’ll both be tried for double homicide.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

[Joe Republic]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

That may not be necessary, having died during childbirth.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

That may not be necessary, having died during childbirth.

That would be highly unlikely today in America.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

No one "likes" chemotherapy, but sometimes it is necessary.

Are you seriously telling me you would force your 11 year old daughter to carry a baby to term?

What would you do? Pull her out of school for the whole year?

Are you going to force her to undergo surgery to cut her pelvis in half to accommodate removing the fetus from her, since her skeletal structure is almost definitely too small to allow a full-term baby to be born otherwise?

Why can't a pregnant girl attend school ?

And where are you getting your medical info ?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If people don't won't to get pregnant and don't want an abortion and don't use birth control, they shouldn't be having sex.

I agree. That's precisely what most of us argue. Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

Condoning pedophilia is not normal. Maybe in your neck of the woods.

https://www.iowansforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/straw-man-meme.jpg

Believing that an unborn baby shouldn't be killed because of a crime he didn't commit doesn't mean you're glad said crime took place, nor does it mean you think it should happen more often.

There is no strawman, Mr. Debater. An 11 year old girl was actually raped and people on here are really advocating that The United States Government should compound that injustice and trauma by forcing her to give birth as the result of the trauma caused to her by a pedophile. That's as real as it gets, so again not a strawman.

Why do you assume giving birth would be traumatic and terminating her baby wouldn't be?

[7,052,770]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

I argue with it, and you know that I wouldn't be "dishonest."

I share the opinion of tens (hundreds?) of millions of Americans, that a fetus that isn't squirming around yet and doesn't look anything like a baby is NOT a "baby" or a "person."

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

It's not a legal person. I was not a legal person when I was a fetus in my mother's uterus. You were not a legal person when you were a fetus in my mother's uterus.

Fetuses are not legal persons. Fetuses do not have rights.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

If people don't won't to get pregnant and don't want an abortion and don't use birth control, they shouldn't be having sex.

I agree. That's precisely what most of us argue. Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

Condoning pedophilia is not normal. Maybe in your neck of the woods.

https://www.iowansforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/straw-man-meme.jpg

Believing that an unborn baby shouldn't be killed because of a crime he didn't commit doesn't mean you're glad said crime took place, nor does it mean you think it should happen more often.

There is no strawman, Mr. Debater. An 11 year old girl was actually raped and people on here are really advocating that The United States Government should compound that injustice and trauma by forcing her to give birth as the result of the trauma caused to her by a pedophile. That's as real as it gets, so again not a strawman.

Why do you assume giving birth would be traumatic and terminating her baby wouldn't be?

He's not assuming anything.

He wants her and her family to decide what to do based on what wouldn't be traumatic for her.

You want to deprive them of any choice at all.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

No one "likes" chemotherapy, but sometimes it is necessary.

Are you seriously telling me you would force your 11 year old daughter to carry a baby to term?

What would you do? Pull her out of school for the whole year?

Are you going to force her to undergo surgery to cut her pelvis in half to accommodate removing the fetus from her, since her skeletal structure is almost definitely too small to allow a full-term baby to be born otherwise?

Why can't a pregnant girl attend school ?

And where are you getting your medical info ?

You think a pregnant 11 YEAR OLD is going to be able to go to school without being teased/shunned/mocked/etc?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If people don't won't to get pregnant and don't want an abortion and don't use birth control, they shouldn't be having sex.

I agree. That's precisely what most of us argue. Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

Condoning pedophilia is not normal. Maybe in your neck of the woods.

https://www.iowansforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/straw-man-meme.jpg

Believing that an unborn baby shouldn't be killed because of a crime he didn't commit doesn't mean you're glad said crime took place, nor does it mean you think it should happen more often.

There is no strawman, Mr. Debater. An 11 year old girl was actually raped and people on here are really advocating that The United States Government should compound that injustice and trauma by forcing her to give birth as the result of the trauma caused to her by a pedophile. That's as real as it gets, so again not a strawman.

Why do you assume giving birth would be traumatic and terminating her baby wouldn't be?

He's not assuming anything.

He wants her and her family to decide what to do based on what wouldn't be traumatic for her.

You want to deprive them of any choice at all.

Please. The operating assumption in this entire conversation on the "pro-choice" side is that giving birth for a girl who's been raped would be as traumatic as the rape itself and that aborting her child would be like trimming a toenail. You even said you'd go "scorched earth" on your daughters' uterus.

[DrScholl]

Debating what is more traumatic is ridiculous and this debate is becoming more absurd. The entire situation is already traumatic and if terminating the pregnancy saves the girl's life (and sanity) then that is the proper choice in the long run.

[Person Man]

If people don't won't to get pregnant and don't want an abortion and don't use birth control, they shouldn't be having sex.

I agree. That's precisely what most of us argue. Was this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

Condoning pedophilia is not normal. Maybe in your neck of the woods.

https://www.iowansforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/straw-man-meme.jpg

Believing that an unborn baby shouldn't be killed because of a crime he didn't commit doesn't mean you're glad said crime took place, nor does it mean you think it should happen more often.

There is no strawman, Mr. Debater. An 11 year old girl was actually raped and people on here are really advocating that The United States Government should compound that injustice and trauma by forcing her to give birth as the result of the trauma caused to her by a pedophile. That's as real as it gets, so again not a strawman.

Why do you assume giving birth would be traumatic and terminating her baby wouldn't be?

He's not assuming anything.

He wants her and her family to decide what to do based on what wouldn't be traumatic for her.

You want to deprive them of any choice at all.

Please. The operating assumption in this entire conversation on the "pro-choice" side is that giving birth for a girl who's been raped would be as traumatic as the rape itself and that aborting her child would be like trimming a toenail. You even said you'd go "scorched earth" on your daughters' uterus.

Well it could be. The level of empathy and concern that religious conservatives have for certain things just makes them appear like they are from another species or another planet. I know nothing I can say will end their obsessions but imagine if lizard people came from a planet around Tau Ceti and demanded , at gun(or whatever they use)point and told you to rearrange their lives around what they think is important. 90% of the population can sympathize but only 35 to 50% of the population can empathize with fetuses and their families. At a certain point, you could do things to make there be very few or at least a lot fewer abortions without destroying the credibility of the government.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

That may not be necessary, having died during childbirth.

That would be highly unlikely today in America.

If you're an 11-years old the risk is significant, whether it's in America or some sub-Saharan poverty-ridden backwater, maybe to a diffrent degree but still. And if she were to survive, the risk of permanent disability that would in many cases essentially mean a delayed death sentence is probably even higher. Even if the chances were 50-50 or much less, it's still mind-blowingly cruel to subject the girl to that.

It's interesting some people seems to subscribe to the notion of the life beginning at conception and ending at birth, because this is essentially what the whole matter boils down to, whether they realize this or, more likely, just don't want to leave their comfy bubble of dogma. Maybe you guys should sit down and try to see the actual human factor here, not just some abstract ideological stuff.

[Person Man]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

That may not be necessary, having died during childbirth.

That would be highly unlikely today in America.

If you're an 11-years old the risk is significant, whether it's in America or some sub-Saharan poverty-ridden backwater, maybe to a diffrent degree but still. And if she were to survive, the risk of permanent disability that would in many cases essentially mean a delayed death sentence is probably even higher. Even if the chances were 50-50 or much less, it's still mind-blowingly cruel to subject the girl to that.

It's interesting some people seems to subscribe to the notion of the life beginning at conception and ending at birth, because this is essentially what the whole matter boils down to, whether they realize this or, more likely, just don't want to leave their comfy bubble of dogma. Maybe you guys should sit down and try to see the actual human factor here, not just some abstract ideological stuff.

They do see the human factor it’s just that they feel differently than we do. They are literally hardwired in a way that we are not.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

That may not be necessary, having died during childbirth.

That would be highly unlikely today in America.

If you're an 11-years old the risk is significant, whether it's in America or some sub-Saharan poverty-ridden backwater, maybe to a diffrent degree but still. And if she were to survive, the risk of permanent disability that would in many cases essentially mean a delayed death sentence is probably even higher. Even if the chances were 50-50 or much less, it's still mind-blowingly cruel to subject the girl to that.

It's interesting some people seems to subscribe to the notion of the life beginning at conception and ending at birth, because this is essentially what the whole matter boils down to, whether they realize this or, more likely, just don't want to leave their comfy bubble of dogma. Maybe you guys should sit down and try to see the actual human factor here, not just some abstract ideological stuff.

They do see the human factor it’s just that they feel differently than we do. They are literally hardwired in a way that we are not.

Yes...they are like reptiles...obsessively incubating the eggs to the point of self harm...then once they’re born it’s “Good luck, kids!  Stay away from your father!  He’ll eat you!”

[Fuzzy Bear]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

It's not a legal person. I was not a legal person when I was a fetus in my mother's uterus. You were not a legal person when you were a fetus in my mother's uterus.

Fetuses are not legal persons  Fetuses do not have rights.

Slaves were not legal persons.  Slaves did not have rights.  And, as an added bonus to their slavemasters, slaves were counted in the census as 3/5th of a person.

Your statement is a legal fact, but not a moral fact in the eyes of God.  I'll ride with that all day long.

[7,052,770]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

It's not a legal person. I was not a legal person when I was a fetus in my mother's uterus. You were not a legal person when you were a fetus in my mother's uterus.

Fetuses are not legal persons  Fetuses do not have rights.

Slaves were not legal persons.  Slaves did not have rights.  And, as an added bonus to their slavemasters, slaves were counted in the census as 3/5th of a person.

Your statement is a legal fact, but not a moral fact in the eyes of God.  I'll ride with that all day long.

God says that fetuses aren't "persons" until the quickening, when it starts moving around. Even better, that aligns with a "facts and logic"-based approach to when "personhood" begins.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Can we please ban anybody who actually believes the Government should force a child to have a child because she was raped by a pedophile. How is this even a credible opinion to hold in the year 2019?

It's a credible opinion because the circumstances of a woman's pregnancy does not affect the humanity of the unborn child.  That unborn child who is the product of this twisted rape is no less human than you or I were at that point in human development.

This 11 year old child either knows that reality right now, or will figure it out as she grows older.  It will hit her one day, and the effect it will have on her on that day is dependent, at least in part, on the decisions she makes regarding life and death for that unborn child.

If people are honest, they can't argue with what I just said. 

That may not be necessary, having died during childbirth.

That would be highly unlikely today in America.

If you're an 11-years old the risk is significant, whether it's in America or some sub-Saharan poverty-ridden backwater, maybe to a diffrent degree but still. And if she were to survive, the risk of permanent disability that would in many cases essentially mean a delayed death sentence is probably even higher. Even if the chances were 50-50 or much less, it's still mind-blowingly cruel to subject the girl to that.

It's interesting some people seems to subscribe to the notion of the life beginning at conception and ending at birth, because this is essentially what the whole matter boils down to, whether they realize this or, more likely, just don't want to leave their comfy bubble of dogma. Maybe you guys should sit down and try to see the actual human factor here, not just some abstract ideological stuff.

You could at least cite former Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) as the formulator of the highlighted phrase, lol.

I've been face to face with the "human factor", and I'm not alone.  In my personal life, I have had at least one grandchild aborted (that I know of).  My son and his girlfriend had always known that my wife and I would do whatever was needed for grandchildren, even if that involved raising the child ourselves, at our own expense.  No questions asked.  As both he and his girlfriend were rather dysfunctional at that time, we made it clear that we would not be dogging them for money; our only concern would be that we would have, through adoption or permanent guardianship, total authority in raising the child.  I was not going to willingly raise a child at the direction of people who were out to lunch.  (I was prepared to compromise as much as necessary for a child's sake, however.)

I know many Christians who are of the same mind, not just in advocacy, but in fact.  The not wanting to adopt or be bothered with children once they're born is, quite frankly, more typical of the pro-choice crowd, many of whom pontificate as to the needs of children, but find them a pain in the rear end when they have to deal with them.  They're the kind of secular grandparents who like visits from grandkids, but rejoice that they "go home".  Now I get that, but the idea that pro-life folks don't put their money and resources where their mouths are is just ridiculous.

What Christians DO view as important is encouraging childbirth within the context of marriage and family.  This is disrespected and blown off by many here, but it is a concept that is indispensable to the stability of a modern society.  Christians are right to question a welfare system that, however unintentionally, encourages out-of-wedlock births and discourages marriage for economic reasons.  Christians also contribute to the funding of any number of crisis pregnancy centers that provide all sorts of assistance for persons beset with untimely pregnancies.

Of course, the Barney Frank Throwaway Line is mostly horse manure.  How many people here would be OK in turning America into a pro-life Sweden; a Social Democracy where abortion is not legal, but there are the sort of cradle-to-grave benefits for folks that the Swedes have?  I'm for it; how about you?  Would you be OK with a Pro-Life Social Democratic America, where children are "taken care of"?  Where "life doesn't end at birth"?  If abolition of the Death Penalty was thrown in, would you be all in with Fuzzy Bear's Pro-Life Welfare State?  I'll even throw in the elimination of right-to-work laws; who's with me?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Since we are now playing with far-fetched comparisons, certain side of this argument reminds me of a mentality exhibited by many in the Holy Inquisition. For them torturing and killing scores of people was actually the ultimate act of Christian love, because they were saving their "immortal souls" for eternity.

Now their mental successors want to put an 11-year old rape victim at serious risk of death or permanent disability (with a good chance the baby wouldn't live either I might add) just so their fanatical conception of "life sanctity" remains intact. Inflexible purism brings the worst cruelty.

And even if we assume that there was no risk of death or disability in delivering, treating a literal child as nothing more than a breeding cattle tells a lot about their psyche.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This is an impressive deflection, Fuzzy, but we're discussing a very specific case of a literal child being forced to have a child resulting from rape, a very diffrent from the situation from your family life you've described. On a personal level I can emphasize with you, since it was clearly a difficult experience (even though I stand by my position on the abortion being legal), but it's just irrelevant here.

[dw93]

What are we going to call the generation of kids that are born after laws like this are imposed? Generation Gilead? This is all disgusting and what is in Handmaid's Tale is looking like it could unfortunately become a reality thanks to all you "pro" lifers.