Stricter sanctions against Russia

[Proto]

Admiral Stavridis in his recent article calls for stricter sunctions against Russia http://time.com/5582867/mueller-report-trump-russia-sanctions/
He focuses on ban for Russian sportsmen, academics, and individuals from visting the US. He also suggests banning Putin from visiting the US. What is your opinion?


mod note: Fixed thread title

[Lu Xun]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality. 

[Proto]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality. 

Stavridis doesn't mean race, religion, and nationality. He means enemies of US democracy.

[Lu Xun]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality. 

Stavridis doesn't mean race, religion, and nationality. He means enemies of US democracy.

He calls for banning Russian citizens on the basis that they are Russians.  Sounds like nationality to me, kid.

[Proto]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality.  

Stavridis doesn't mean race, religion, and nationality. He means enemies of US democracy.

He calls for banning Russian citizens on the basis that they are Russians.  Sounds like nationality to me, kid.

Russian citizens are not only Russians. Besides I included the option to allow entrance for some categories. This is my personal choice. But I think that all Russian citizens who apply for a US visa must be asked the question if they approve of Crimea's occupation. Those who support it must be banned. The same must be done in EU.

[Beet]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality.  

This. And the Trump administration's Muslim Ban is unconstitutional. Other than John Roberts, no one seriously thinks Iranian-Americans who have committed zero terrorist attacks in the last 30 years are a serious threat to a country that has multiple shootings a week from armed domestic nutjobs.

Unfortunately, the Russians themselves, by intervening to get Trump elected, have made possible the precedent that could get them discriminated against one day.

[Proto]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality.  

This. And the Trump administration's Muslim Ban is unconstitutional. Other than John Roberts, no one seriously thinks Iranian-Americans who have committed zero terrorist attacks in the last 30 years are a serious threat to a country that has multiple shootings a week from armed domestic nutjobs.

Unfortunately, the Russians themselves, by intervening to get Trump elected, have made possible the precedent that could get them discriminated against one day.

Absolutely. I agree 100%.

[President Johnson]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality.  

This. And the Trump administration's Muslim Ban is unconstitutional. Other than John Roberts, no one seriously thinks Iranian-Americans who have committed zero terrorist attacks in the last 30 years are a serious threat to a country that has multiple shootings a week from armed domestic nutjobs.

Unfortunately, the Russians themselves, by intervening to get Trump elected, have made possible the precedent that could get them discriminated against one day.

Absolutely. I agree 100%.

Agreed as well.

I'm more for retaliation against Putin and his regime through a massive cyber operation and stop dealings/sanction all state owned companies.

[Inmate Trump]

Where is the Trump option of just allowing Russia to do whatever they want to us?

[Lechasseur]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality. 

Stavridis doesn't mean race, religion, and nationality. He means enemies of US democracy.

He calls for banning Russian citizens on the basis that they are Russians.  Sounds like nationality to me, kid.

Banning all Russians from entering the US? That's ridiculous and really racist

[Lechasseur]

If the Democrats start pushing for stuff like that, they're clearly heading for defeat in 2020. Seriously, the Democratic Party hasn't been this messed up since 1972 imo.

[Person Man]

It would look a whole lot better if major social media platforms just banned Russian IP addresses
Between the Iowa caucus and inauguration day.

[Omega21]

I don't really get it.

First people like Proto downplay Russia's power (in countless threads before, posting songs with verses like "Oh you stupid Russian"), but then they claim they had the power to singlehandedly swing an election in a country of 300+ Million Inhabitants...

So, which is it, are they weak, or all-powerful?

As for the travel ban, some people just think you can't be racist against white people lol.

And as for the sanctions, you guys really think imposing sanction after sanction on Iran, Russia etc. will not lead the affected countries (India, China, Russia, Iran etc.) to unite against a "common enemy"?

It would look a whole lot better if major social media platforms just banned Russian IP addresses
Between the Iowa caucus and inauguration day.

And you do realize datacenter proxies are $1 per piece, and that mobile proxies are $3 (they cannot be banned, as the IP addresses circulate) right?

Please don't make ridiculous claims without the proper technical knowledge.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Nobody should be banned from travelling to the United States based on race, religion, or nationality.  

Stavridis doesn't mean race, religion, and nationality. He means enemies of US democracy.

He calls for banning Russian citizens on the basis that they are Russians.  Sounds like nationality to me, kid.

Banning all Russians from entering the US? That's ridiculous and really racist

Kind of like calling for a ban on all Muslims.

[Crumpets]

I support taking a harder line on Russia. This is not how you do that. This is how you play directly into Putin's narrative about how the world works. I don't have a ready-made sanctions policy, but travel bans are not a good idea.

[Karpatsky]

Travel bans for ordinary nationals is counterproductive, as in my experience, Russians who spend time in the West tend to shake off fairly quickly the government narratives. This would be a good way to close off one of the best ways the West has to introduce democratic values to Russia.

Honestly, at this point what we really need is to get it together to maintain the sanctions we already have, as there is significant political pressure to remove them. Just last month Senate Republicans allowed sanctions to be lifted on Oleg Deripaska, one of the sleaziest Russian oligarchic enablers of Putin's government. If we don't even have the political unity to maintain sanctions on him of all people, we don't have much hope of imposing more painful sanctions.

This said, I read a story recently about a hotel in Prague which required Russian visitors to affirm that Crimea was Ukrainian territory before being allowed to stay. I would love it if more private establishments, and perhaps even museums and such imposed such requirements.

[Tartarus Sauce]

If the Democrats start pushing for stuff like that, they're clearly heading for defeat in 2020. Seriously, the Democratic Party hasn't been this messed up since 1972 imo.

They would not be “clearly heading for defeat.” It’s not a good policy, but neither was suggesting a ban on all Muslims coming into the U.S. and yet the guy who suggested that currently sits in the Oval Office. We are past the point where absurd things like this would count as disqualifiers for the general electorate.

Thankfully, no serious Democratic candidate is actually considering banning all Russians from entering the country.

[Inmate Trump]

If the Democrats start pushing for stuff like that, they're clearly heading for defeat in 2020. Seriously, the Democratic Party hasn't been this messed up since 1972 imo.

They would not be “clearly heading for defeat.” It’s not a good policy, but neither was suggesting a ban on all Muslims coming into the U.S. and yet the guy who suggested that currently sits in the Oval Office. We are past the point where absurd things like this would count as disqualifiers for the general electorate.

Thankfully, no serious Democratic candidate is actually considering banning all Russians from entering the country.

But we are after your guns and your right to say “Merry Christmas .”

[Karpatsky]

I don't really get it.

First people like Proto downplay Russia's power (in countless threads before, posting songs with verses like "Oh you stupid Russian"), but then they claim they had the power to singlehandedly swing an election in a country of 300+ Million Inhabitants...

So, which is it, are they weak, or all-powerful?

They are conventionally pathetic, but have pioneered a style of asymmetric information warfare which is extremely cheap and extremely effective against their democratic adversaries.

And by the way, no one is claiming that they swung 300 million people - the only reason this is so big a deal is because the US' unique election system allowed the election to be swung on an incredibly small number, ~50k votes in three states. It is quite plausible that Russian info ops contributed to lower turnout or a few thousand votes going the other way.

...which is why the best defense against such influence ops in the future is to have electoral reform to diffuse these efforts out, but I digress.

[Omega21]

This said, I read a story recently about a hotel in Prague which required Russian visitors to affirm that Crimea was Ukrainian territory before being allowed to stay. I would love it if more private establishments, and perhaps even museums and such imposed such requirements.

But in reality, it's not, and will not be (I am not saying it's right or just)... Should Serbian Hotels require Albanians to confirm that Kosovo is part of Serbia? Of course not.

The reality is simple, and I faintly remember a saying along the lines of "To whom belong the sheep his is the hill", meaning once a territory which is composed of another ethnic majority breaks off, it's gone for good.

[Omega21]

This said, I read a story recently about a hotel in Prague which required Russian visitors to affirm that Crimea was Ukrainian territory before being allowed to stay. I would love it if more private establishments, and perhaps even museums and such imposed such requirements.

But in reality, it's not, and will not be (I am not saying it's right or just)... Should Serbian Hotels require Albanians to confirm that Kosovo is part of Serbia? Of course not.

The reality is simple, and I faintly remember a saying along the lines of "To whom belong the sheep his is the hill", meaning once a territory which is composed of another ethnic majority breaks off, it's gone for good.

You are wrong again. Your idol, Putin,  has been constantly repeating that Russians and Ukrainians are one nation

And I should care what he says? I haven't heard him speak or read any of his statements in ages, as I mainly follow EU politics.

Ukrainians and Russians are 2 very different nationalities, and most of Crimea is inhabited by Russians. 

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

Banning Russians from coming to the US is xenophobic and a product of mass hysteria, just like a "Muslim ban".

[DavidB.]

There was no collusion and there is no reason to impose stricter sanctions on Russia. We should work towards normalizing relations between the West and Russia.

[DrScholl]

Banning all Russians from entering the US? That's ridiculous and really racist

rofl, Russian is not a race.

If the Democrats start pushing for stuff like that, they're clearly heading for defeat in 2020. Seriously, the Democratic Party hasn't been this messed up since 1972 imo.

Another humdinger and right in a row, you are on a roll. This is not a policy that the Democratic Party is calling for.

There was no collusion and there is no reason to impose stricter sanctions on Russia. We should work towards normalizing relations between the West and Russia.

There should be no normalized relations until they back off their repeated interference. There is no disputing that they interfered, there is a mountain of evidence in the report.

[Lechasseur]

There was no collusion and there is no reason to impose stricter sanctions on Russia. We should work towards normalizing relations between the West and Russia.

This