Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[OSR stands with Israel]

okay fk it based on the above post I now support a J6 style run for it. This is insanity. It is none of their damn business where people spend their money

A general strike is better , as what you are proposing would just  discredit the opposition to Trudeau and give him justification to go farther .

[T'Chenka]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

There won't be, most people don't stand with the far right convoy people.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

There won't be, most people don't stand with the far right convoy people.

I mean, I think the proper redress for this is court cases, not riots or strikes, but I can't see how this doesn't make your side wildly vulnerable under the next right-wing government. Just doesn't seem like a power governments should have.

[T'Chenka]

Cenk and John on the The Young Turks made a great point today talking about this stuff. Regardless of if a protest is left wing or right wing or libertarian or whatever it is, the point of the protest is to get national attention and get everybody focused on the injustice and then hopefully that can change minds which can lead to pressure for political action. The example given was MLK's walk to Selma and the police riding on horses and sending dogs to attack them. The problem is, sometimes you successfully protest and successfully get everybody paying attention and talking about the injustice, and it turns out, 50% (or more / a lot more ) of the country just doesn't agree with what you're fighting for and isn't interested in changing anything the protestors want changed. Which is what's happened in Canada after maybe 1.5 weeks, maybe 2 weeks.

So then you have to ask... how long is it appropriate for the occupation to continue? You made your point, everybody had their had your chance at change, so when should they go home? Most reasonable people would say "keep going forever" isn't appropriate, but it's hard to say exactly how long is too long. A lot of Canadians think it's been too long in this specific case. Cenk said he's interested in having an open good-faith dialogue with right wingers about how long they would say is appropriate for some protest to go on, but then points out that it's very hard to have good-faith discussions with Republicans about these kinds of things. Which is generally true.

(Edited for spelling mistakes)

[T'Chenka]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

There won't be, most people don't stand with the far right convoy people.

I mean, I think the proper redress for this is court cases, not riots or strikes, but I can't see how this doesn't make your side wildly vulnerable under the next right-wing government. Just doesn't seem like a power governments should have.

How are governments supposed to deal with emergencies then, Ray?

[omar04]

Plausibility check on Bernier going into the 2021 election as the Conservatives' leader if he didn't leave to found the PPC? I saw a post arguing he could have won the next leadership election on this subforum a while ago.

[Don Vito Corleone]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

There won't be, most people don't stand with the far right convoy people.

I mean, I think the proper redress for this is court cases, not riots or strikes, but I can't see how this doesn't make your side wildly vulnerable under the next right-wing government. Just doesn't seem like a power governments should have.

How are governments supposed to deal with emergencies then, Ray?

Look I have no love for the FreedomConvoy but don't the extensive emergency powers being invoked right now worry you at all? Say what you will about the FreedomConvoy, they're not the FLQ; they're not roaming around abducting and murdering people.

[T'Chenka]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

There won't be, most people don't stand with the far right convoy people.

I mean, I think the proper redress for this is court cases, not riots or strikes, but I can't see how this doesn't make your side wildly vulnerable under the next right-wing government. Just doesn't seem like a power governments should have.

How are governments supposed to deal with emergencies then, Ray?

Look I have no love for the FreedomConvoy but don't the extensive emergency powers being invoked right now worry you at all? Say what you will about the FreedomConvoy, they're not the FLQ; they're not roaming around abducting and murdering people.

In theory it worries me, but in practicality it does not. The Ottawa Police have clearly demonstrated that - for whatever reason - they are not willing to deal with this properly. SOMEBODY needs to. Unfortunate that it had to be Trudeau and not Ottawa / Doug Ford.

[Don Vito Corleone]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

There won't be, most people don't stand with the far right convoy people.

I mean, I think the proper redress for this is court cases, not riots or strikes, but I can't see how this doesn't make your side wildly vulnerable under the next right-wing government. Just doesn't seem like a power governments should have.

How are governments supposed to deal with emergencies then, Ray?

Look I have no love for the FreedomConvoy but don't the extensive emergency powers being invoked right now worry you at all? Say what you will about the FreedomConvoy, they're not the FLQ; they're not roaming around abducting and murdering people.

In theory it worries me, but in practicality it does not. The Ottawa Police have clearly demonstrated that - for whatever reason - they are not willing to deal with this properly. SOMEBODY needs to. Unfortunate that it had to be Trudeau and not Ottawa / Doug Ford.

That is true, if the local authorities did their job we wouldn't be having this conversation. Still, as a good liberal, I'm very very wary of appeals to "Law and Order".

[Dr. MB]

https://twitter.com/vaushv/status/1493626254553018373?s=21

[CumbrianLefty]

They are going to end up barring people from banking for life, without due process
https://twitter.com/drrollergator/status/1493738584884404227?s=20&t=owkJARet...

There should be a general strike in Canada

This is better known as a standard far left demand, you know.

[StateBoiler]

The National Assembly has adopted a unanimous motion asking the federal government not to apply the Emergency Act on Quebec territory.

A majority of Premiers have made comments not really agreeing with the federal government move. Ontario and BC Premiers seem to support it.

Why the hell do they keep getting special treatment

Because the Montreal and Quebec City police forces are actually competent and managed to keep the situation under control.

Are there only 2 cities in all of the province of Quebec?

To further this take, what you, MaxQue, is saying, is that the police in every other province and territory in the entire country are not competent, from St. John's to Yellowknife, and therefore for that reason are subject to Emergencies Act? This is your logic, correct?

[MaxQue]

The National Assembly has adopted a unanimous motion asking the federal government not to apply the Emergency Act on Quebec territory.

A majority of Premiers have made comments not really agreeing with the federal government move. Ontario and BC Premiers seem to support it.

Why the hell do they keep getting special treatment

Because the Montreal and Quebec City police forces are actually competent and managed to keep the situation under control.

Are there only 2 cities in all of the province of Quebec?

To further this take, what you, MaxQue, is saying, is that the police in every other province and territory in the entire country are not competent, from St. John's to Yellowknife, and therefore for that reason are subject to Emergencies Act? This is your logic, correct?

Those are the only 2 places in Quebec where trucker demonstrations happened. I, for sure, wouldn't call my local police competent.

It seems that, at the point, the only area that needs the Emergencies Act is Ottawa, but it not possible to declare in one province only without Ford playing ball (and he doesn't as he is focused on pandering to his base for winning re-election in June). The National Assembly of Quebec, of course, doesn't give a damn about St John's or Yellowknife and is only focused on itself.

[StateBoiler]

The National Assembly has adopted a unanimous motion asking the federal government not to apply the Emergency Act on Quebec territory.

A majority of Premiers have made comments not really agreeing with the federal government move. Ontario and BC Premiers seem to support it.

Why the hell do they keep getting special treatment

Because the Montreal and Quebec City police forces are actually competent and managed to keep the situation under control.

Are there only 2 cities in all of the province of Quebec?

To further this take, what you, MaxQue, is saying, is that the police in every other province and territory in the entire country are not competent, from St. John's to Yellowknife, and therefore for that reason are subject to Emergencies Act? This is your logic, correct?

Those are the only 2 places in Quebec where trucker demonstrations happened. I, for sure, wouldn't call my local police competent.

It seems that, at the point, the only area that needs the Emergencies Act is Ottawa, but it not possible to declare in one province only without Ford playing ball (and he doesn't as he is focused on pandering to his base for winning re-election in June). The National Assembly of Quebec, of course, doesn't give a damn about St John's or Yellowknife and is only focused on itself.

So the statement on the competence of the police is not based on that's why it should not apply to Quebec, it's based on Quebec parochialism.

[DC Al Fine]

https://twitter.com/JeanMarcLeger1/status/1493913933895254019?t=gIqm5MHJ_mznkYO8...

New provincial poll for Quebec. Parti Conservateur is leading both Parti Quebecpis and Quebec Solidaire.

[beesley]

That actually strikes me as a contextually worse poll for Quebec Solidaire than anyone else.

If PCQ's vote is evenly spread it could be a nothing burger. But I would still guess they could make inroads in Quebec City if this number is remotely true. I would assume this is not simply a case of answering 'BC Conservatives'.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

https://twitter.com/JeanMarcLeger1/status/1493913933895254019?t=gIqm5MHJ_mznkYO8...
New provincial poll for Quebec. Parti Conservateur is leading both Parti Quebecpis and Quebec Solidaire.

CAQ miles ahead, no surprise. The only really surprising thing is QS being as low as they are in that poll.

What I find interesting, kind of a meta conversation, is how this poll shows the limits of discussing political parties and views from a purely left-right perspective. This poll shows 55% of Quebecers voting for self-described parties of the right - 75% if you count the QC Liberals, who don't identify as such, but are associated with centre-right politics. Yet the most recent federal poll shows the CPC at 16% in QC and the PPC not even registering - 84% of respondents supporting the LPC, BQ, NDP and GPC which are all considered varyingly to the left of centre.

So based on the most recent provincial poll, anywhere between half and three quarters of Quebecers (depending on how you classify PLQ) would vote for the "right", but based on the most recent federal poll, over four-fifths would vote for the "left".

I think this serves as a good reminder that people don't vote on clean bipolar lines like that, which is what a lot of Canadian political commentary seems to assume these days.

[DC Al Fine]

Crosstabs have PCQ at 25% in Quebec City, which would probably he enough for a couple seats... if that actually pans out.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Toronto Star: A vaccine tax can help end the pandemic

I swear, the liberal intelligentsia in this country...

Didn't Quebec already try this? And backtrack? Do we not see how the state targeting and stigmatizing a minority has clearly led to unthinkably bad social tensions with global implications?

[StateBoiler]

Paul Wells article on Emergencies Act invocation. He shared "I was up all night reading 34-year-old Hansard, how about you?"

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/the-emergencies-act-whats-seriously-endangered/

[MaxQue]

In my local news, there is more proof of the lawlessness of the demonstrators. A snow removal contrator just decided to go in Ottawa and is there since 2 weeks. His customers don't get the services they paid for (in other words, he stole their money) and his answer to customers is pretty much "don't blame me, blame Trudeau".

Yet another proof demonstrators are overgrown manchildren with no concept of responability.

[Central Lake]

I find it interesting that the Conservative general election strategy I was thinking about seems to be gaining more traction. CPC targeting NDP seats, not leaning too heavily on fiscal conservatism, etc.
Even though I haven't been sharing it with people, I saw similar ideas on a twitter feed of a person called Bryan Breguet. DC had similar thoughts as well. So there might be a growing consensus (ok, consensus might be an exaggeration) by grassroots supporters as to what they want the Conservative party to pursue electorally. But the party establishment and media probably have other ideas.
The advice given by media pundits is not in good faith but that's another story.

[beesley]

I find it interesting that the Conservative general election strategy I was thinking about seems to be gaining more traction. CPC targeting NDP seats, not leaning too heavily on fiscal conservatism, etc.
Even though I haven't been sharing it with people, I saw similar ideas on a twitter feed of a person called Bryan Breguet. DC had similar thoughts as well. So there might be a growing consensus (ok, consensus might be an exaggeration) by grassroots supporters as to what they want the Conservative party to pursue electorally. But the party establishment and media probably have other ideas.
The advice given by media pundits is not in good faith but that's another story.

Certainly if, in the Ontario Provincial election, Ford gains Essex, Niagara Centre, Oshawa, they might wish to build on that.

[Central Lake]

Also Niagara Falls.

Most of those seats are held by the federal Conservatives currently. Granted the federal party won those ridings with 30%-40% of the vote and in 2018 Ford cleared 40% in Oshawa and Essex and lost those two ridings. But if Ford wins Niagara Centre it will be a first by either the federal or provincial conservatives. (As far as I know)

Anyway in addition to those ridings, I was thinking about more northern areas in Ontario, Manitoba, and B.C. On that note, the Saskatchewan Party defeated the provincial NDP in a byelection in a northern riding today. Also the CPC flipping Liberal seats in rural Newfoundland.

[beesley]

Also Niagara Falls.

Most of those seats are held by the federal Conservatives currently. Granted the federal party won those ridings with 30%-40% of the vote and in 2018 Ford cleared 40% in Oshawa and Essex and lost those two ridings. But if Ford wins Niagara Centre it will be a first by either the federal or provincial conservatives. (As far as I know)

Anyway in addition to those ridings, I was thinking about more northern areas in Ontario, Manitoba, and B.C. On that note, the Saskatchewan Party defeated the provincial NDP in a byelection in a northern riding to
day. Also the CPC flipping Liberal seats in rural Newfoundland.

Good points that I didn't think of - I was thinking more from a direction of travel perspective. Ironically, I thought Nickel Belt, Algoma were too safe for the provincial NDP and if the PCs gain anything up there it'll be the two special ridings.