Are homosexual actions a sin?
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  Are homosexual actions a sin?
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Poll
Question: Are homosexual actions a sin?
#1
yes
 
#2
no
 
#3
there's no such thing as sin
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 54

Author Topic: Are homosexual actions a sin?  (Read 5714 times)
A18
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« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2005, 01:28:14 PM »

Ultimately, some thing have to be sinful just because they are, or nothing can be sinful.
And how does one determine whether something is sinful or virtuous? I can think of no rational means of making this distinction, which seems to be completely arbitrary and subjective.

That's my point. Obviously "sin" is just defined by the supreme deity -- it's not based on anything else.
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angus
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« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2005, 01:54:00 PM »



Ahhh  . . . good song.  Remember listening to that and "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" while at sea.  hahaha

"Twelve men, one boat.  What could be better?"  Wink

Such simple times the 80s were.  We were so politically incorrect, but we didn't know it since the phrase hadn't really made its way in to the vernacular yet.  We didn't worry about sharing needles back then either.  I remember the year I graduated from college, 1990, a writer coined the phrase "generation-X" applicable to people just graduating from college.  The phrase caught on.  Shortly thereafter I remember watching this kid I knew, Allen, waste away slowly, at first getting weak so he couldn't stand much, then getting weaker and weaker.  He eventually looked like a skeleton, not a walking skeleton, but just a skeleton wasting away in a hospital bed.  "He has what?!"  "No way, that's the f****t disease, isn't it?"  "You mean straight guys can get that?"  Not that I ever shared needles with Allen, but I occassionally had sex a woman that the guy Allen shared needles with sometimes had sex with.  Brave new world.  Allen gave new meaning to the phrase "wasting away" for me.  There, but by the grace of whatever gods there be, go I.  Times are complicated now.  But it's not all bad.  You can book your own flight, for example, compare the deals with a point and click.  Want to go to Amsterdam, Cairo, or Lima?  I've flown to all those places without any help from a travel agent.  No need for them these days.  Still, I miss the simplicity.  I should vote in the poll, but I can't.  It's like trying to use quantum mechanical model to ask how the electron gets from one lobe to another of a p-orbital if there's a zero-probability node in the middle.  QM just doesn't attempt to do trajectories, right?  Only probabilities, so it's not a fair question.  Still, they do come up from time to time.  In memory of a time when such questions didn't even come up, here's another great lyric from Culture Club's "Colour by Numbers" album.  (Sorry for the misspelling.  George O'Dowd is English I think.  You know they can't spell.)  Anyway, this blast from the past was once one of my favorite songs.  Sometimes straight guys like Culture club.  Enjoy:

"Desert loving in your eyes all the way.
If I listen to your lies would you say
I'm a man without conviction,
I'm a man who doesn't know
how to sell a contradiction.
You come and go, you come and go.

Karma karma karma karma karma chameleon,
you come and go, you come and go.
Loving would be easy if your colours were like my dream,
red gold and green, red gold and green.

Don't hear your wicked words every day
and you used to be so sweet, I heard you say
that my love was an addiction.
When we cling our love is strong.
When you go you're gone forever.
You string along, you string along.

Karma karma karma karma karma chameleon,
you come and go, you come and go.
Loving would be easy if your colours were like my dream,
red gold and green, red gold and green.

Every day is like survival,
you're my lover, not my rival.
Every day is like survival,
you're my lover, not my rival.

I'm a man without conviction,
I'm a man who doesn't know
how to sell a contradiction.
You come and go, you come and go.

Karma karma karma karma karma chameleon,
you come and go, you come and go.
Loving would be easy if your colours were like my dream,
red gold and green, red gold and green.

Karma karma karma karma karma chameleon,
you come and go, you come and go.
Loving would be easy if your colours were like my dream,
red gold and green, red gold and green.

Karma karma karma karma karma chameleon,
you come and go, you come and go.
Loving would be easy if your colours were like my dream,
red gold and green, red gold and green."
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opebo
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« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2005, 02:35:46 PM »

Love the Eighties music you mentioned, angus, though  of course the rottenness began in the eighties - the 70's were the last fully good decade.

Times are complicated now.  But it's not all bad.  You can book your own flight, for example, compare the deals with a point and click.  Want to go to Amsterdam, Cairo, or Lima?  I've flown to all those places without any help from a travel agent.  No need for them these days. 

As for this sort of thing being any kind of compensation for the shabby world we live in now, well, it isn't.  The internet is basically just something that amuses people now because real-life for most is such a boring, joyless chore.  I imagine that 70's man or even early 80's man would've scoffed at the idea that people waste their lives chit chatting on computer screens, and very rarely get laid, and even more rarely, if ever, promiscuously or 'au naturale'.   It is easy for generations to change, and for people to forget what sh**tty times they're living in.  Old men here with gold chains round their necks sometimes remind me about that.
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angus
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« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2005, 03:44:56 PM »

Love the Eighties music you mentioned, angus, though  of course the rottenness began in the eighties - the 70's were the last fully good decade.

Times are complicated now.  But it's not all bad.  You can book your own flight, for example, compare the deals with a point and click.  Want to go to Amsterdam, Cairo, or Lima?  I've flown to all those places without any help from a travel agent.  No need for them these days. 

As for this sort of thing being any kind of compensation for the shabby world we live in now, well, it isn't.  The internet is basically just something that amuses people now because real-life for most is such a boring, joyless chore.  I imagine that 70's man or even early 80's man would've scoffed at the idea that people waste their lives chit chatting on computer screens, and very rarely get laid, and even more rarely, if ever, promiscuously or 'au naturale'.   It is easy for generations to change, and for people to forget what sh**tty times they're living in.  Old men here with gold chains round their necks sometimes remind me about that.


good points.  the early 70s must have been grand.  but like me you were just a very small child during the bell-bottom years.  I have just the faintest memory of there being a war.  Actually, I have no memories of there being a war, per se, but when I was about 3 or 4 I remember when this "movie" would come on TV, around six o'clock, and it was a war-in-the-jungle movie.  lots of action, with narration over the action.  and, invariably, my parents would whisk me away to another room while they watched it, or they would turn the channel (there were maybe five or six channels to choose from back then).  Only years later would I come to understand that the "jungle war movie" was live footage from the Viet Nam conflict, and that it was gruesome to my late-1930s vintage parents, who had only read, in print, and listened, from the radio, about the war that was going on when they were small children.

Still, I have never labelled anything a "sin" and I don't plan to start now. So I won't vote one way or the other.  But I do believe certain things are "right" and "wrong" though I recognize that we may all have different moral codes.  Oe man's moral is another's immoral and yet another's amoral.  I will say that for me, it is wrong to persecute homosexuals.  But I also think it's wrong to feed christians to lions. 


War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
   
War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all
   
War! huh good God
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?
   
Ohhh? War! I despise
Because it means destruction?
Of innocent lives
   
War means tears
to thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
and lose their lives
   
I said - War! Huh Good God y'all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
   
War! Whoa, Lord ...
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?
   
War! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War! Friend only to the undertaker
War! It's an enemy to all mankind
The thought of war blows my mind
   
War has caused unrest in the younger generation
Induction then destruction-
Who wants to die?
   
Ohhh? War Good God y'all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it, Say it, Say it
   
War! Uh-huh Yeah - Huh!
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?
   
War! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War! It's got one friend, that's the undertaker
War has shattered many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled bitter and mean
Life is much to precious to spend fighting wars these days
War can't give life, it can only take it away
   
War! Huh Good God y'all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
   
War! Whoa, Lord ...
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?
   
War! It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War! Friend only to the undertaker
Peace Love and Understanding;
tell me, is there no place for them today?
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there's got to be a better way
   
War! Huh Good God y'all
What is it good for?
You tell me
Say it, Say it, Say it
   
War! Huh Good God y'all
What is it good for?
Stand up and shout it.
Nothing!
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Platypus
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« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2005, 02:27:24 AM »

I haven't read this thread at all, and I presume someone else has pointed this out, but the grammar in the topic name is sinful.
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Gabu
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« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2005, 03:50:26 AM »

Depends on what we mean by "sin".

If we mean "sin" as in something explicitly forbidden by the Bible, I don't know, as I'm not a theologist.

If we mean "sin" as in something that intentionally hurts someone innocent for no greater purpose whatsoever, then no, they certainly are not sins.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2005, 02:08:51 PM »

There is no such thing as 'sin', prude.

Actually this claim of the existence of 'sin' is precisely the one that should mark one as a lion's dinner.

I hope you turn nice and crispy when you are frying in hell.

I'll take this rare opportunity to agree with Phil.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2005, 08:51:12 PM »

I go away for the weekend and theres ANOTHER poll on homosexuality! Give it a break guys, the same argument always gotes on anyway. To answer the question, I don't give a damn if it is a sin or not. In a modern western democracy we should be following the word of law not just the law of god.

I agree this topic needs to be given a rest.  But what should the world of law be based upon?  That is really one of the central questions, since our western system of laws is Judeo-Christian based.
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Alcon
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« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2005, 08:57:11 PM »

Our western system of laws is not really all that more similar to Jeudo-Christian values than it is to most other established religions.  Murder, theft, and interference with property being wrong is not an originally Jeudo-Christian concept.
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