Netanyahu: (Israel) is the national state, not of all its citizens, but (...)

[GP270watch]

Netanyahu is a terrible person.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Modified the title to reflect what he literally said.

Damn you characters limit.

[Sestak]

So a politician on the verge of losing an election says something dumb/gross to try to rile up voters, and the usual vultures come out to proclaim their support for the country's elimination. Business as usual.

Literally no one here has said that. And other than a small handful, even most posters here who you'd describe as anti-Israel support a 2SS.

[Sestak]

Also, I'm assuming he said this in Hebrew and not English, in which case I'll defer to the posters here who actually speak the language regarding translation and context.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Also, I'm assuming he said this in Hebrew and not English, in which case I'll defer to the posters here who actually speak the language regarding translation and context.

Yeah, I think the fact that both me (comparably hawkish but very anti-Bibi) and Hnv (very dovish and very anti-Bibi) agree on this makes it clear

Glad to see there are still people who think with a cool head. Btw:

So a politician on the verge of losing an election says something dumb/gross to try to rile up voters, and the usual vultures come out to proclaim their support for the country's elimination. Business as usual.

He's not on the verge of losing an election The recent polls have been quite painful for Gantz and in any case the right-wing bloc has had the advantage for the entire election.

[Hnv1]

I hate him but that's taking a quote out of context.

He was contrasting between the ethnic nation state and neutral ethnic state (like the US or other western countries), which is labeled "a state of all its citizens" in Hebrew. That in itself is not a problematic statement in general context as even Meretz don't support a neutral state.

But this notion of ethnic nation state is at the core of the problem, especially when that state is not ethnically homogeneous and is the product of... er... particular historical circircumstances.

Honestly, I'm fed up with certain victimhood and the inevitable double standards. I think that most of the people agree that the Jewish people is entitled to have a state. The problem, of course, is that you share the land with other people with the same or more entitlement than your people. If the foundations of the ehnic nation state are built on the negation of the other (Arabs or Palestinians in this case), there's somerhing inherently wrong in them.

As for the national aspirations, I'm Spaniard and my country has a problem with separatism in certain regions. Even though I don't support separatism, I believe that separatists are entitled to have their own aspirations and fight for them by democratic means. I consider separatists full citizens, not second class half aliens. I would oppose sending the tanks and the military occupation of rebel regions, as well as the creation of Bantustan-like ghettos for separatists deprived of citizenship, granting them a fictional autonomy or independence within their narrow borders.

Is Bibi the problem or just a symptom?

I suspect there exists a huge lack of empathy

Well in that case we should have a problem with a lot modern liberal states. Germany also have a law allowing for any of a German ethnicity to automatically become a citizen, the UK prefers migrants from the Commonwealth to the ethnic heritage and etc.
The question is to what degree is the national trait a part of the constitutional character? Israel is too much, but that doesn't mean that it is intrinsically bad

[Velasco]

I don't think that Israel is comparable to Germany and the United Kingdom due to the aforementioned "particular historical circumstances". Also, you ignore deliberately the existence of the other national community living in the same territory. My point is not denying the right of Israel to exist. Rather, it's that the very existence of Israel cannot be founded on the negation of the Other: i.e the Palestinians. On the one hand, the others are not going to disappear. On the other hand, depriving their right to exist is permanently tarnishing your reputation, as well it's an intolerable burden from a moral point of view. It might seem that the ethnic nation state of Israel was founded on an empty wilderness from the scratch, but it occurred otherwise.

I read this news yesterday: "Gaza's generation blockade: young lives in the ‘world’s largest prison’. "prison’. Anger and frustration for generation of Palestinians who have spent their entire lives in the fenced-off territory"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/12/generation-blockade-gaza-young-palestinians-who-cannot-leave?fbclid=IwAR1bHqNJDfzKMk4ND5XcWnuGde_QQpd0kpE6xLwY-dY_r0IXVa0jH1Y9J0Y

Cruising south along Israel’s coastal highway, there are almost no signs that you are approaching Gaza. Two million people live trapped on a thin slice of land along the Mediterranean, but someone could easily drive right past and miss it altogether.

visitors to the strip, restricted mainly to diplomats, aid workers and journalists, the last stop in Israel is a service station, where Red Sea-bound tourists and commuters sip lattes and eat chocolate croissants at an American-style coffeehouse. Walking back to their cars, they may glimpse the only hint of Gaza’s existence – a white orb high in the southern sky, a tethered surveillance balloon that provides the Israeli army with a 24-hour overhead view of the enclave (...)

These are the kind of things that I'm referring to when I say "intolerable moral burden". Whatever efforts you make to deny the reality, this is your burden and your responsibility. I guess that decades of brutality dull the senses, but sometimes I wonder how can you sleep at night in Israel. Have you forgotten the existence of the open-air jails, either in Gaza or the West Bank?

[rosin]

"All citizens are equal, but some of them are more equal than others..."

George Orwell would rotate in his grave