Netanyahu: (Israel) is the national state, not of all its citizens, but (...)

[Blue3]

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel is the homeland “only of the Jewish people,” in a new jab at the country’s Arab minority ahead of April’s election.

Netanyahu on Sunday addressed “slightly confused people” after an Israeli celebrity defended the rights of Israel’s Arab population. Arabs comprise about 20 percent of Israel’s 9 million residents. They have full citizenship rights but have faced decades of discrimination.

On Saturday, actress Rotem Sela denounced Netanyahu’s frequent talking point that his political rival will form a government with Arab political parties.

“When the hell will someone in this government tell the public that Israel is a country of all its citizens,” Sela wrote on Instagram.

Netanyahu responded: Israel “is the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netanyahu-israel-is-the-national-state-only-of-the-jewish-people_n_5c855f71e4b0d93616293db9

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What the hell is it even supposed to mean for a country to "not be the country of all its citizens"?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

If this is not a fascist statement, what is?

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Well, Israel was created to be a state for Jews.  Wouldn't it be more controversial if he said Israel wasn't specifically for Jews?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well, Israel was created to be a state for Jews.  Wouldn't it be more controversial if he said Israel wasn't specifically for Jews?

Poland is a nation state which in 1918 saw a similar rebirth as the Jewish state in Palestine, and before the war we've had a large share of various minorities, which the nationalist right wanted to strip from their civil rights and relegate to a second class category. Was that right? No, it's never right, whether it's Poland, Israel or any other country, even with a strong national identity.

[Santander]

He did not say Israel is only for Jews.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Well, Israel was created to be a state for Jews.  Wouldn't it be more controversial if he said Israel wasn't specifically for Jews?

Poland is a nation state which in 1918 saw a similar rebirth as the Jewish state in Palestine, and before the war we've had a large share of various minorities, which the nationalist right wanted to strip from their civil rights and relegate to a second class category. Was that right? No, it's never right, whether it's Poland, Israel or any other country, even with a strong national identity.

[DavidB.]

He did not say Israel is only for Jews.

This is true.

There's nothing wrong with the "it's Bibi or Tibi" slogan and Netanyahu is essentially right: while every citizen is equal, there can be no other national aspirations within the State of Israel than Jewish national aspirations.

However, Netanyahu deliberately put his statement in the most unfortunate way possible, engineering a left-wing frenzy with the aim to attract right-wing voters. And doing all this while disregarding Israel's international reputation. Really starting to think it may be time for him to go. Also afraid we'll see more such stunts before April 9th. That said, I'll still take him over his haters, here and elsewhere.

[Horus]

He's just admitting what we've always known, the honesty is actually refreshing.

[Ban my account ffs!]

America will be Israel's last friend.  And even we will give up.  At least that's what the Evangelicals tell me.

[Intell]

Israel is totally not fascist guys, give us more foreign aid!

[America Needs R'hllor]

He did not say Israel is only for Jews.

This is true.

There's nothing wrong with the "it's Bibi or Tibi" slogan and Netanyahu is essentially right: while every citizen is equal, there can be no other national aspirations within the State of Israel than Jewish national aspirations.

However, Netanyahu deliberately put his statement in the most unfortunate way possible, engineering a left-wing frenzy with the aim to attract right-wing voters. And doing all this while disregarding Israel's international reputation. Really starting to think it may be time for him to go. Also afraid we'll see more such stunts before April 9th. That said, I'll still take him over his haters, here and elsewhere.

This is true (except of the part I striked ). People here just don't get the context and meaning behind these words- in Israel, the phrase "country of all its citizens" means a non-national state- that is, not a Jewish state, that is, not Zionist.

Rotem Sela, the actress who said what Bibi responded to, was right in most of what she said, but that's not accurate- Israel isn't a "country of all its citizens" (and I'm sure she doens't believe it). It's a Jewish State, where all citizens should be equal and treated equally, something Bibi harms with his incitement against Arabs. I can see why people wouldn't understand the meaning behind his words, especially internationally, but I'd implore people on Atlas who want to think they're smart and do their research to try and understand these things.

[Velasco]

He did not say Israel is only for Jews.

This is true.

There's nothing wrong with the "it's Bibi or Tibi" slogan and Netanyahu is essentially right: while every citizen is equal, there can be no other national aspirations within the State of Israel than Jewish national aspirations.

However, Netanyahu deliberately put his statement in the most unfortunate way possible, engineering a left-wing frenzy with the aim to attract right-wing voters. And doing all this while disregarding Israel's international reputation. Really starting to think it may be time for him to go. Also afraid we'll see more such stunts before April 9th. That said, I'll still take him over his haters, here and elsewhere.

This is true (except of the part I striked ). People here just don't get the context and meaning behind these words- in Israel, the phrase "country of all its citizens" means a non-national state- that is, not a Jewish state, that is, not Zionist.

Rotem Sela, the actress who said what Bibi responded to, was right in most of what she said, but that's not accurate- Israel isn't a "country of all its citizens" (and I'm sure she doens't believe it). It's a Jewish State, where all citizens should be equal and treated equally, something Bibi harms with his incitement against Arabs. I can see why people wouldn't understand the meaning behind his words, especially internationally, but I'd implore people on Atlas who want to think they're smart and do their research to try and understand these things.

Well, the sentence "all citizens are equal but there are no other national aspirations than ours"shows a contradiction that possibly is at the core of the whole conundrum

Bibi, Ecce Homo. Trying to understand the rationale that leads to Apartheid policies is not so difficult, if you try a little hard

(Are you asking that seriously, or is it a joke?)

I'm speechless, truly

[America Needs R'hllor]

He did not say Israel is only for Jews.

This is true.

There's nothing wrong with the "it's Bibi or Tibi" slogan and Netanyahu is essentially right: while every citizen is equal, there can be no other national aspirations within the State of Israel than Jewish national aspirations.

However, Netanyahu deliberately put his statement in the most unfortunate way possible, engineering a left-wing frenzy with the aim to attract right-wing voters. And doing all this while disregarding Israel's international reputation. Really starting to think it may be time for him to go. Also afraid we'll see more such stunts before April 9th. That said, I'll still take him over his haters, here and elsewhere.

This is true (except of the part I striked ). People here just don't get the context and meaning behind these words- in Israel, the phrase "country of all its citizens" means a non-national state- that is, not a Jewish state, that is, not Zionist.

Rotem Sela, the actress who said what Bibi responded to, was right in most of what she said, but that's not accurate- Israel isn't a "country of all its citizens" (and I'm sure she doens't believe it). It's a Jewish State, where all citizens should be equal and treated equally, something Bibi harms with his incitement against Arabs. I can see why people wouldn't understand the meaning behind his words, especially internationally, but I'd implore people on Atlas who want to think they're smart and do their research to try and understand these things.

Well, the sentence "all citizens are equal but there are no other national aspirations than ours"shows a contradiction that possibly is at the core of the whole conundrum

Bibi, Ecce Homo. Trying to understand the rationale that leads to Apartheid policies is not so difficult, if you try a little hard

(Are you asking that seriously, or is it a joke?)

I'm speechless, truly

The sentence "all citizens are equal but there are no other national aspirations than ours" is for literally every nation state. Want to challenge that concept? Sure. What to challenge that just for Jews? Well...

I won't respond to the ridiculous and stale "appartheid" argument.

[parochial boy]

"not a state of all it's citizens" has this implication that non-Jewish citizens cannot be genuinely Israeli, and cannot be part of the Israeli nation-state.

That sort of essentialist about "the nation" is... problematic, because it's not hard to recognise minority groups form part of a nation without having to undermine the "national characteristics" of the state at large.

[Horus]

The Israeli right - "Israel is a racist country"

The international left - "Israel is a racist country"

The Israeli "left" - "No, no, that's not true, what he meant was...!"

[America Needs R'hllor]

"not a state of all it's citizens" has this implication that non-Jewish citizens cannot be genuinely Israeli, and cannot be part of the Israeli nation-state.

That sort of essentialist about "the nation" is... problematic, because it's not hard to recognise minority groups form part of a nation without having to undermine the "national characteristics" of the state at large.

Again, it's a linguistic matter. In Israel we call a non-national state "a state of all its people"- I agree that this isn't the best wording, but that's what is used culturally. So Israel isn't a state OF all its people, but is a state FOR all its people. Let me write that in Hebrew:
מדינת כל אזרחיה- a state of all its people, aka non-national state.
מדינה לכל אזרחיה- a state for all its people, which Israel is and should strive to be better at.
I do agree that our wording isn't the best, and Bibi's was even worse, but if anyone wants to argue about whether Israel is a country that practices equality they should look at the facts. It obviously doesn't mean we don't have anywhere to improve- we do. Millions of people in the PA and Gaza need to get an independent country to practice their right of self-identification and to be masters to themselves. The unacceptable incitement of the right against Arab citizens must stop. And I hope that the Arabs can get themselves better representatives who will do more for them and less grandstanding, so that Arabs can get some well-needed infrastructure improvements.

I'm obviously not going to respond to our resident GA-ANTISEMITIC poster, whose every post about Israel or Jews makes me realize how important it is that we have a strong and independent country to defend ourselves from these people.

[Zaybay]

"not a state of all it's citizens" has this implication that non-Jewish citizens cannot be genuinely Israeli, and cannot be part of the Israeli nation-state.

That sort of essentialist about "the nation" is... problematic, because it's not hard to recognise minority groups form part of a nation without having to undermine the "national characteristics" of the state at large.

Again, it's a linguistic matter. In Israel we call a non-national state "a state of all its people"- I agree that this isn't the best wording, but that's what is used culturally. So Israel isn't a state OF all its people, but is a state FOR all its people. Let me write that in Hebrew:
מדינת כל אזרחיה- a state of all its people, aka non-national state.
מדינה לכל אזרחיה- a state for all its people, which Israel is and should strive to be better at.
I do agree that our wording isn't the best, and Bibi's was even worse, but if anyone wants to argue about whether Israel is a country that practices equality they should look at the facts. It obviously doesn't mean we don't have anywhere to improve- we do. Millions of people in the PA and Gaza need to get an independent country to practice their right of self-identification and to be masters to themselves. The unacceptable incitement of the right against Arab citizens must stop. And I hope that the Arabs can get themselves better representatives who will do more for them and less grandstanding, so that Arabs can get some well-needed infrastructure improvements.

I'm obviously not going to respond to our resident GA-ANTISEMITIC poster, whose every post about Israel or Jews makes me realize how important it is that we have a strong and independent country to defend ourselves from these people.

Im 95% sure you are just trying to rationalize what was a rather blatant ethnic-nationalist stance by a man known for ethnic-nationalist politics.

[America Needs R'hllor]

"not a state of all it's citizens" has this implication that non-Jewish citizens cannot be genuinely Israeli, and cannot be part of the Israeli nation-state.

That sort of essentialist about "the nation" is... problematic, because it's not hard to recognise minority groups form part of a nation without having to undermine the "national characteristics" of the state at large.

Again, it's a linguistic matter. In Israel we call a non-national state "a state of all its people"- I agree that this isn't the best wording, but that's what is used culturally. So Israel isn't a state OF all its people, but is a state FOR all its people. Let me write that in Hebrew:
מדינת כל אזרחיה- a state of all its people, aka non-national state.
מדינה לכל אזרחיה- a state for all its people, which Israel is and should strive to be better at.
I do agree that our wording isn't the best, and Bibi's was even worse, but if anyone wants to argue about whether Israel is a country that practices equality they should look at the facts. It obviously doesn't mean we don't have anywhere to improve- we do. Millions of people in the PA and Gaza need to get an independent country to practice their right of self-identification and to be masters to themselves. The unacceptable incitement of the right against Arab citizens must stop. And I hope that the Arabs can get themselves better representatives who will do more for them and less grandstanding, so that Arabs can get some well-needed infrastructure improvements.

I'm obviously not going to respond to our resident GA-ANTISEMITIC poster, whose every post about Israel or Jews makes me realize how important it is that we have a strong and independent country to defend ourselves from these people.

Im 95% sure you are just trying to rationalize what was a rather blatant ethnic-nationalist stance by a man known for ethnic-nationalist politics.

Im 95% sure you don't know anything other than what the media tells you about Israel. Not your fault, of course- most Americans and Europeans are like that. And when our PM does a less than good work to improve our image in the world, and the media reports stuff like "2 Palestinians killed" when it's actually about an averted terror attack and the 2 are terrorists, I'm not surprised you don't have much sympathy for Israel.

Also, of course Israel is an ethnic nation state. So is Germany, and Italy, and Russia, and so would be Palestine. Learn your civics.

[Zaybay]

"not a state of all it's citizens" has this implication that non-Jewish citizens cannot be genuinely Israeli, and cannot be part of the Israeli nation-state.

That sort of essentialist about "the nation" is... problematic, because it's not hard to recognise minority groups form part of a nation without having to undermine the "national characteristics" of the state at large.

Again, it's a linguistic matter. In Israel we call a non-national state "a state of all its people"- I agree that this isn't the best wording, but that's what is used culturally. So Israel isn't a state OF all its people, but is a state FOR all its people. Let me write that in Hebrew:
מדינת כל אזרחיה- a state of all its people, aka non-national state.
מדינה לכל אזרחיה- a state for all its people, which Israel is and should strive to be better at.
I do agree that our wording isn't the best, and Bibi's was even worse, but if anyone wants to argue about whether Israel is a country that practices equality they should look at the facts. It obviously doesn't mean we don't have anywhere to improve- we do. Millions of people in the PA and Gaza need to get an independent country to practice their right of self-identification and to be masters to themselves. The unacceptable incitement of the right against Arab citizens must stop. And I hope that the Arabs can get themselves better representatives who will do more for them and less grandstanding, so that Arabs can get some well-needed infrastructure improvements.

I'm obviously not going to respond to our resident GA-ANTISEMITIC poster, whose every post about Israel or Jews makes me realize how important it is that we have a strong and independent country to defend ourselves from these people.

Im 95% sure you are just trying to rationalize what was a rather blatant ethnic-nationalist stance by a man known for ethnic-nationalist politics.

Im 95% sure you don't know anything other than what the media tells you about Israel. Not your fault, of course- most Americans and Europeans are like that. And when our PM does a less than good work to improve our image in the world, and the media reports stuff like "2 Palestinians killed" when it's actually about an averted terror attack and the 2 are terrorists, I'm not surprised you don't have much sympathy for Israel.

Also, of course Israel is an ethnic nation state. So is Germany, and Italy, and Russia, and so would be Palestine. Learn your civics.

The US media never reports any conflicts in the Israeli-Palestine region, we talk about how Trump either sucks/rules, or about Obama's Tan Suits. The US Media is famous for being extremely centered on internal affairs, and external events are only really mentioned in passing.

Anyway, you have a fundamental misunderstanding on the difference between an ethnic-nationalist, and a nation-state. A nation-state usually has a unifying culture, such as French, Moroccan, Mongolian, etc. But the nation-state doesnt emphasize this culture as the only culture. Minorities live in all of these countries, Islamic-African minorities in France, Jews in Morocco, and Chinese or Turkic peoples in Mongolia. That is a nation-state with a national ethnicity. When you begin to target the minorities in a country, either by calling them inferior, wanting to kick them out, or in this case, wanting the nation to be only for Jews, then you start to get into ethnic-nationalism, racism, religious conflict, and even fascism. Germany today is an ethnic-nation state, they have a unifying German culture and are largely of Germanic ancestry. But the nation still holds many French, Middle-Eastern, Polish, Romanian, Slavic, and other peoples. If Angela Merkel were to come out tomorrow and say that Germany was for the Germans only and the Croats werent allowed and were not citizens, well then Im pretty sure more people would be calling her Fuhrer Merkel(more-so than usual).

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So a politician on the verge of losing an election says something dumb/gross to try to rile up voters, and the usual vultures come out to proclaim their support for the country's elimination. Business as usual.

[America Needs R'hllor]

"not a state of all it's citizens" has this implication that non-Jewish citizens cannot be genuinely Israeli, and cannot be part of the Israeli nation-state.

That sort of essentialist about "the nation" is... problematic, because it's not hard to recognise minority groups form part of a nation without having to undermine the "national characteristics" of the state at large.

Again, it's a linguistic matter. In Israel we call a non-national state "a state of all its people"- I agree that this isn't the best wording, but that's what is used culturally. So Israel isn't a state OF all its people, but is a state FOR all its people. Let me write that in Hebrew:
מדינת כל אזרחיה- a state of all its people, aka non-national state.
מדינה לכל אזרחיה- a state for all its people, which Israel is and should strive to be better at.
I do agree that our wording isn't the best, and Bibi's was even worse, but if anyone wants to argue about whether Israel is a country that practices equality they should look at the facts. It obviously doesn't mean we don't have anywhere to improve- we do. Millions of people in the PA and Gaza need to get an independent country to practice their right of self-identification and to be masters to themselves. The unacceptable incitement of the right against Arab citizens must stop. And I hope that the Arabs can get themselves better representatives who will do more for them and less grandstanding, so that Arabs can get some well-needed infrastructure improvements.

I'm obviously not going to respond to our resident GA-ANTISEMITIC poster, whose every post about Israel or Jews makes me realize how important it is that we have a strong and independent country to defend ourselves from these people.

Im 95% sure you are just trying to rationalize what was a rather blatant ethnic-nationalist stance by a man known for ethnic-nationalist politics.

Im 95% sure you don't know anything other than what the media tells you about Israel. Not your fault, of course- most Americans and Europeans are like that. And when our PM does a less than good work to improve our image in the world, and the media reports stuff like "2 Palestinians killed" when it's actually about an averted terror attack and the 2 are terrorists, I'm not surprised you don't have much sympathy for Israel.

Also, of course Israel is an ethnic nation state. So is Germany, and Italy, and Russia, and so would be Palestine. Learn your civics.

The US media never reports any conflicts in the Israeli-Palestine region, we talk about how Trump either sucks/rules, or about Obama's Tan Suits. The US Media is famous for being extremely centered on internal affairs, and external events are only really mentioned in passing.

Anyway, you have a fundamental misunderstanding on the difference between an ethnic-nationalist, and a nation-state. A nation-state usually has a unifying culture, such as French, Moroccan, Mongolian, etc. But the nation-state doesnt emphasize this culture as the only culture. Minorities live in all of these countries, Islamic-African minorities in France, Jews in Morocco, and Chinese or Turkic peoples in Mongolia. That is a nation-state with a national ethnicity. When you begin to target the minorities in a country, either by calling them inferior, wanting to kick them out, or in this case, wanting the nation to be only for Jews, then you start to get into ethnic-nationalism, racism, religious conflict, and even fascism. Germany today is an ethnic-nation state, they have a unifying German culture and are largely of Germanic ancestry. But the nation still holds many French, Middle-Eastern, Polish, Romanian, Slavic, and other peoples. If Angela Merkel were to come out tomorrow and say that Germany was for the Germans only and the Croats werent allowed and were not citizens, well then Im pretty sure more people would be calling her Fuhrer Merkel(more-so than usual).

Lol, I don't think I have a "fundamental misunderstanding" because you haven't said anything to contradict me. In fact, you're just making me repeat what I already said- Israel does indeed have a unifying Jewish cultural and national identity. Thus, it's a nation OF Jews, though I'd change that phrase in our language. It's not, however, a nation FOR Jews only- it's a nation where all citizens are equal. So while Bibi's statement is extremely tone-deaf, it's not factually incorrect, at least in Hebrew.

[Former President tack50]

He did not say Israel is only for Jews.

This is true.

There's nothing wrong with the "it's Bibi or Tibi" slogan and Netanyahu is essentially right: while every citizen is equal, there can be no other national aspirations within the State of Israel than Jewish national aspirations.

I mean, other than the Palestinian issue (which I imagine is separate; plus I don't think it's recognized as part of the "state of Israel" proper), what other national aspirations are there in the first place?

It's not like Israel has some sort of secessionist movement like Catalonia/Quebec/Kurdistan/whatever

[Hnv1]

I hate him but that's taking a quote out of context.

He was contrasting between the ethnic nation state and neutral ethnic state (like the US or other western countries), which is labeled "a state of all its citizens" in Hebrew. That in itself is not a problematic statement in general context as even Meretz don't support a neutral state.

[Velasco]

I hate him but that's taking a quote out of context.

He was contrasting between the ethnic nation state and neutral ethnic state (like the US or other western countries), which is labeled "a state of all its citizens" in Hebrew. That in itself is not a problematic statement in general context as even Meretz don't support a neutral state.

But this notion of ethnic nation state is at the core of the problem, especially when that state is not ethnically homogeneous and is the product of... er... particular historical circircumstances.

Honestly, I'm fed up with certain victimhood and the inevitable double standards. I think that most of the people agree that the Jewish people is entitled to have a state. The problem, of course, is that you share the land with other people with the same or more entitlement than your people. If the foundations of the ehnic nation state are built on the negation of the other (Arabs or Palestinians in this case), there's somerhing inherently wrong in them.

As for the national aspirations, I'm Spaniard and my country has a problem with separatism in certain regions. Even though I don't support separatism, I believe that separatists are entitled to have their own aspirations and fight for them by democratic means. I consider separatists full citizens, not second class half aliens. I would oppose sending the tanks and the military occupation of rebel regions, as well as the creation of Bantustan-like ghettos for separatists deprived of citizenship, granting them a fictional autonomy or independence within their narrow borders.

Is Bibi the problem or just a symptom?

I suspect there exists a huge lack of empathy