Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread

[Xing]

Bernie's taxes are out? Alright, let's see those checks to Putin.

Re:  "the idea that we need to champion incremental change and be bipartisan"  Nobody's arguing for that.  In fact, I think just the opposite.  We need aggressive but attainable goals, and strident partisanship is the only vehicle we have to accomplish those goals.  Sanders, unfortunately, shows no interest in either.  Like I said, he's got no plan to accomplish anything beyond shallow "political revolution" sloganeering, and he shows an undisguised contempt for the party organization actually trying to realize progress.

Re:  "he’s convinced a generation to get involved and vote for a government that will represent their interests"  A government that will represent (and has represented) their interests is a Democratic government, and Sanders is nothing but contemptuous of the Democratic party.  His whole appeal is premised on the idea that the party has betrayed the people, and as a man who has donated a lot of my own money, time, and energy to the party I find that insulting.  When he spits on the Democratic party, he spits on me.

Re:  "detail about exactly how they’ll enact their policies"  Every speech doesn't need to be a detailed policy proposal, but you've got to show some indication of how you'll get things done, especially if you're proposing a series of wildly expensive new programs.  Sanders won't even entertain ending the Senate filibuster.  He won't put minimal effort into outlining funding options for his proposals.  There's nothing serious about his proposed agenda, and no indication he'll be able to deliver on anything he promises.  Do I have to explain why it's dangerous to make promises you have no intention of keeping?

I don't get where you're getting this idea that he despises the Democratic Party. Sure, he's critical of the Democratic Party (especially the DNC), but how is that unfair? Being committed to the causes of the party doesn't mean never questioning whether the current leadership of the DNC is looking out for Democratic voters themselves.

He has never outright said that the party has betrayed the people, simply questioned some moves of the DNC which are, well, questionable. Are we not allowed to express frustration with a party that allowed Republicans to gain a massive amount of legislative seats and state senate seats, and rig elections through gerrymandering over the course of the past decade? While not all of the blame for Trump's win lies with the Democratic Party, they clearly did not take him seriously and made many mistakes that probably contributed to his win.

And speaking as someone who has also been involved with the Democratic Party for some time, let me say that there are times that I do feel betrayed. Hillary probably would have still won by a decent margin over Sanders even if the DNC had been impartial, but the fact that they were not impartial made me feel somewhat betrayed. And as someone who was an enthusiastic Obama supporter in 2008, I remember his vote against the Iraq War and proposal to use more diplomacy was a big factor in the primary. When his foreign policy ended up being largely similar to that of Bush's, I did feel pretty betrayed. I don't regret voting for him in 2008 or 2012, but he should absolutely be criticized for his use of drones, which is clearly not what most who voted for him had in mind.

[GoTfan]

It would seem that Clinton supporters on this site are still bitter towards Sanders even though it was Trump and not Sanders who defeated her. When she won the primary Sanders quickly supported her as he had promised, but that doesn't seem good enough for Clinton supporters.
It's quite sad really.

They seem to want to continue to be divisive which can only help Trump.

Ha, a Sanders supporter accusing others of being divisive!  Pot. Kettle. Black.

Seriously, though, your comment is the lamest kind of straw man. I can assure you that I and many, many others deeply dislike Sanders not only for what happened in 2016 but also for most of what he's done since.

What more could he have done for Hillary in 2016 besides vigorously endorse and campaign for her, as he did? And what has he “done” since then that’s so horrible, besides fix his sights on taking down Trump and creating a more progressive Democratic Party? I don’t expect any specifics from you, cause you have none.

A Sanders supporter criticizing someone for a lack of specifics!  That's cute.

Look, I'm not interested in rehashing 2016.  You think Sanders's support for Hillary was vigorous, and I remember it being resentful and tepid at best.  Neither of us is going to rewrite the other's memory, so no point in arguing about that.  But I will try to articulate why I disliked him then and why I still dislike him now. 

I think Sanders is basically running a con, and one with the potential to cause distinct damage to the progressive cause.  Sanders's explanation for everything he wants to do is that we need a revolution in this country.  But we're never going to get a revolution, and Sanders knows it.  You don’t build a revolution on top of an economy like ours.  If you want to get anything done, you’re going to have to do it the old-fashioned way: through slow, boring, hard work.  If you want to make a difference in this country, you need to be prepared for a very long, very frustrating slog. You have to buy off interest groups, compromise your ideals, and settle for half loaves—all the things that Bernie disdains as part of the corrupt mainstream establishment.  In place of this he promises his followers we can get everything we want via a revolution that’s never going to happen. And when that revolution inevitably fails, where do all his impressionable followers go? Do they join up with the corrupt establishment and commit themselves to slow, boring, hard work?  Or do they give up?  If you don’t want your followers to give up in disgust, your inspiration needs to be in the service of goals that are at least attainable. By offering a chimera instead, Sanders has done the progressive movement no favors.

So Sanders is a conman then?

Thanks for saying all his supporters are gullible f**ks. That's the way to win them over!

I'm not so silly that I think posting some comments on an Internet forum is going to "win anyone over."  I'm just curious to see how a Sanders supporter responds to my criticisms.  But as is typical of a Sanders supporter, you don't address the critique at all. 

Anyway, yes, I think Sanders is either a naive idiot or a self-aggrandizing conman, and most of his supporters are gullible and/or immature--more interested in virtue signaling than actually doing the hard work of making people's lives better.  But I guess I'm not supposed to say that.  I guess I'm supposed to coddle you infantile bozos?

Just keep insulting Sanders supporters. Like it or not, you kinda need them to win. They stay home, Democrats are going to lose big-time. And insulting them endlessly is not going to do that, but if you do, then they won't vote, then you'll go around blaming everyone but yourselves for losing.

Kinda like everything you've been doing since 2016.

I love how the response to "You all need to grow up and commit to hard work" is "Don't be mean or we'll sulk and stop participating."  All you Sanders supporters are so precious. 

But you're not telling them that. You're telling them more or less to shut up and not say a word about anything.

[GoTfan]

It would seem that Clinton supporters on this site are still bitter towards Sanders even though it was Trump and not Sanders who defeated her. When she won the primary Sanders quickly supported her as he had promised, but that doesn't seem good enough for Clinton supporters.
It's quite sad really.

They seem to want to continue to be divisive which can only help Trump.

Ha, a Sanders supporter accusing others of being divisive!  Pot. Kettle. Black.

Seriously, though, your comment is the lamest kind of straw man. I can assure you that I and many, many others deeply dislike Sanders not only for what happened in 2016 but also for most of what he's done since.

What more could he have done for Hillary in 2016 besides vigorously endorse and campaign for her, as he did? And what has he “done” since then that’s so horrible, besides fix his sights on taking down Trump and creating a more progressive Democratic Party? I don’t expect any specifics from you, cause you have none.

A Sanders supporter criticizing someone for a lack of specifics!  That's cute.

Look, I'm not interested in rehashing 2016.  You think Sanders's support for Hillary was vigorous, and I remember it being resentful and tepid at best.  Neither of us is going to rewrite the other's memory, so no point in arguing about that.  But I will try to articulate why I disliked him then and why I still dislike him now. 

I think Sanders is basically running a con, and one with the potential to cause distinct damage to the progressive cause.  Sanders's explanation for everything he wants to do is that we need a revolution in this country.  But we're never going to get a revolution, and Sanders knows it.  You don’t build a revolution on top of an economy like ours.  If you want to get anything done, you’re going to have to do it the old-fashioned way: through slow, boring, hard work.  If you want to make a difference in this country, you need to be prepared for a very long, very frustrating slog. You have to buy off interest groups, compromise your ideals, and settle for half loaves—all the things that Bernie disdains as part of the corrupt mainstream establishment.  In place of this he promises his followers we can get everything we want via a revolution that’s never going to happen. And when that revolution inevitably fails, where do all his impressionable followers go? Do they join up with the corrupt establishment and commit themselves to slow, boring, hard work?  Or do they give up?  If you don’t want your followers to give up in disgust, your inspiration needs to be in the service of goals that are at least attainable. By offering a chimera instead, Sanders has done the progressive movement no favors.

So Sanders is a conman then?

Thanks for saying all his supporters are gullible f**ks. That's the way to win them over!

I'm not so silly that I think posting some comments on an Internet forum is going to "win anyone over."  I'm just curious to see how a Sanders supporter responds to my criticisms.  But as is typical of a Sanders supporter, you don't address the critique at all. 

Anyway, yes, I think Sanders is either a naive idiot or a self-aggrandizing conman, and most of his supporters are gullible and/or immature--more interested in virtue signaling than actually doing the hard work of making people's lives better.  But I guess I'm not supposed to say that.  I guess I'm supposed to coddle you infantile bozos?

Just keep insulting Sanders supporters. Like it or not, you kinda need them to win. They stay home, Democrats are going to lose big-time. And insulting them endlessly is not going to do that, but if you do, then they won't vote, then you'll go around blaming everyone but yourselves for losing.

Kinda like everything you've been doing since 2016.

You insult Sanders’s critics like he doesn’t need us to win. LOL.

Considering that you've called Sanders supporters stupid in the past for no reason  and have a borderline psychotic hatred of the man, You're not really in a position to talk.

[Zaybay]

Sanders is doing pretty well in the Fox Townhall. Hes even calling out the Fox Moderators when they tried to throw a loaded question.

[bilaps]

He's killing the FOX townhall. Dumbing down health care to Marta like to a ten year child was gold.

[Matty]

He really isn’t

He is being very vague on how he will lower health care spending so much

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

He said he wont endorse Crt packing, Beto, Harris still lead among Black and Latinos. If Biden doesnt run, Beto may get his supporters

[bilaps]

He really isn’t

He is being very vague on how he will lower health care spending so much

What? He was very specific. He said people will pay more in taxes but overall cost for a vast majority of people will go down because they will not pay premiums, deductibles etc.

[Matty]

But HOW will that decrease in overall spending happen?

Somebody in the health sector will be seeing a reduction in income.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

But HOW will that decrease in overall spending happen?

Somebody in the health sector will be seeing a reduction in income.

Yes, there will be less money going to people who don't actually provide medical care.

[bilaps]

But HOW will that decrease in overall spending happen?

Somebody in the health sector will be seeing a reduction in income.

I'm afraid i'm missing the point you're trying to make. What kind of spending are we talking about now? Overall spending by whom? Who mentioned anything on lowering spending for healthcare?

[Matty]

You want per capita health spending down to European levels of gdp, right?

That requires significant reductions in income going into health care related industries

[Hindsight was 2020]

Bernie looked great at the Townhall

[James Monroe]

https://twitter.com/agraybee/status/1117894288195481600

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

https://twitter.com/agraybee/status/1117894288195481600

Yeah, anyone who isn't a sociopath should find "stopping the pharmaceutical companies' greed" appealing.

[bilaps]

You want per capita health spending down to European levels of gdp, right?

That requires significant reductions in income going into health care related industries

No, it's not me that I want anything, I'm just talking about his performance here. What he wants is a health care as a right. And he talked about that. What you are saying is another subject matter. US is spending per capita on health care more than other developed countries, yet it doesn't guarantee health care to all citizens like many of those other nations do. Isn't that a proof of a bad system?

What I was talking about when I posted my first comment is how it is really to dumb down republican talking points on socialized medicine in like a minute. "He wants to take away your insurance, he wants you to pay more in taxes". "Yeah, but everyone will be insured, nobody will lose coverage, it will cover more things and the cost of your taxes going higher will be offset by not paying premiums, deductibles etc".

[Pyro]

"Going on Fox News is a bad idea"

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1117926775772856325

[S019]

"Going on Fox News is a bad idea"

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1117926775772856325

Even as a Republican, I have to admit this was hilarious, I don't support single-payer/Medicare for All/whatever name it is being branded as now, but did Fox News really think that a Sanders town hall would resemble their viewers, and not be full of hardcore liberals.

[Arturo Belano]

"Going on Fox News is a bad idea"

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1117926775772856325

He did incredibly well tonight!

[Canis]

https://twitter.com/agraybee/status/1117894288195481600

Dude your epic resisting is so epic I can't even man twitter truly is a bastion for intellectual thought

[Pouring Rain and Blairing Music]

Good for sanders for selling a book that consumers wanted, but it really is a bit hypocritical to campaign against the 1% and claim their wealth is illegitimate while ignoring yourself

You think that he wouldn’t support his own taxes being increased?

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/agraybee/status/1117894288195481600

Words cannot describe how utterly stupid this tweet is.

[YE]

But HOW will that decrease in overall spending happen?

Somebody in the health sector will be seeing a reduction in income.

Lower prescription drug prices (through a variety of different means - there’s like 10 different bills introduced for this).

Overhead costs for Medicare are 5%. For private insurance they are 20%.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bernie really had a amazing day. Owning Fox News on single payer, leading in the Emerson poll, and showing that his taxes were pretty boring.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Just watched the town hall with Burnie. He was great on all issues but immigration. He brought up all the questions where Trump was "left" but more or less failed >>> better healthcare ("insurance for everybody"), greedy pharma, endless wars and infrastructure.

Immigration - meh. Acknowledged that there is a crisis, but then just complained about Trump and talked about "comprehensive immigration reform" without talking about eventual drawbacks. It's like talking about "medicare for all" without talking about taxes - dishonest.

Also, to be against nuclear power is extremely stupid. It's safe, extremely reliable, cheap and environmentally friendly. Why hate science?


Also, I don't understand the criticism against Fox. They were pretty fair and friendly. Sure, some "unfair" questions, but overall quite descent and good - really nothing to whine about. The town hall was good for democracy and transparency.