Crisis in Venezuela

[Karpatsky]

As this is not my region of specialty, I won't come down hard on either side here, but having read this thread I must say: pointing out US support for other dictatorships is not an coherent argument for either position. I'm not even sure what people posting this even mean - are they arguing that it is preferable to avoid hypocrisy by supporting all dictatorships, including Maduro's, than to support some but not others, or what?

[Karpatsky]

I'm not even sure what people posting this even mean - are they arguing that it is preferable to avoid hypocrisy by supporting all dictatorships, including Maduro's, than to support some but not others, or what?

Preferably supporting no dictatorships would be sufficient.

So why complain when it moves one step towards that?

[Karpatsky]

https://twitter.com/TheRoaringTruth/status/1089373874658000896

I know many US interventions were very inappropriate, but some others were justified. I'd never ever forget atrocities during the Yugoslavian wars.

This is what you get when you combine ideological dogmaticism with a lack of interest in understanding situational context.

This applies.

[Karpatsky]

Russia deploying troops and arms to Caracas: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47688711

[Karpatsky]

Russia deploying troops and arms to Caracas: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47688711

does that classify as "military" "massing"?

Obviously not, because they aren't American.

[Karpatsky]

Come on Maduro, hold on.

Why, why would you want Maduro to stay in power?

I am sick and tired of American backed and sometimes even done coups and regime changes and stupid foreign policy, enough already of the "democracy" thumping propaganda machine.

Respectfully, pull your head out of your rear end and learn some damn empathy. You are wishing millions of people to continue living under autocracy and poverty to spite the American foreign policy establishment.

[Karpatsky]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

[Karpatsky]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

Oh, so when it's 'our kind' who want to live in peace and freedom, we need to 'look out for them', but when it's brown people or Asians, they're just fighting for 'perverted corporate democracy' and we should support their dictators. I think I see how it is now.

[Karpatsky]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

Oh, so when it's 'our kind' who want to live in peace and freedom, we need to 'look out for them', but when it's brown people or Asians, they're just fighting for 'perverted corporate democracy' and we should support their dictators. I think I see how it is now.

Why do you give yourself the power to decide what is better for people, and say it's better for them to die than live under x dictator?

Maduro is a maniac and much much much worse than his predecessor, but I still do not believe that America or any other country such as Russia or China simply want to "help out of the goodness of
their heart", thus 3-rd parties should stay out of it.

Gotta love all the people in this thread conflating supporting Guiado with calling for immediate American invasion of Venezuela. What you have is at least a coherent position, but it is not equivalent with hoping Maduro 'holds on'.

[Karpatsky]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

Oh, so when it's 'our kind' who want to live in peace and freedom, we need to 'look out for them', but when it's brown people or Asians, they're just fighting for 'perverted corporate democracy' and we should support their dictators. I think I see how it is now.

It's not about color, same goes for any country, it's about watching out for our people as Americans who are btw 35-40% non-white including my entire paternal side. 

Spare me the hypocrisy. You aren't arguing against American intervention, you are arguing against the very idea of Venezuela achieving democratic government and in fact are advocating for aid to be sent to their dictator.

Leaving aside that you apparently support intervention to liberate countries as long as those people are French or German, if you truly believe that, the color of someone's passport is no more reasonable a metric to determine who is worthy of a basic ethical consideration.

[Karpatsky]

I support the intervention in WW2 since we were clearly attacked and it was clear that if we did not respond, our interests would be hurt. The whole Venezuela bs is drummed up Bolton neocon propaganda. Choose another line of attack, I am not against my own heritage lol, some left wingers make everything about race when faltering in neocon "logic".

Congratulations I suppose if you base your prejudice on citizenship rather than appearance; in the context I am familiar with the difference is irrelevant. However you choose to frame it, you consider the lives of certain groups of ethically irrelevant or even wish for their lives to be worse. I don't believe you actually believe that reports of what life is like in NK or VZ is 'drummed up propaganda', and the fact that you are stooping so low to defend your position reveals how despicable it is.

If you don't support US intervention in Venezuela, that is well within the range of sane and reasonable policy positions. But you are far off the edge of apologia for autocracy right now. Get a grip.