Crisis in Venezuela

[The Free North]

Come on Maduro, hold on.

The  is wrong with you?

Not subscribing to the toxic Cheney/Bolton style foreign policy and propaganda, that is why Gabbard is also awesome (besides a couple areas)

Think dialectically for a fraction of a second and realize that you can be against 'toxic' foreign policy while not hoping for a dictator to remain in power.

[Crumpets]

I just walked by the Venezuelan embassy which, despite the US recognizing Guiado, seems to still be run by Maduro loyalists. There were pro-Guiado protesters outside, and pro-Maduro protesters on the steps. There were US police guarding the embassy from the protesters because of its sovereign immunity, which leads to the interesting situation of having US police protecting the agents of a government we don't recognize from protesters supporting a government we do recognize.

Now I'm curious what stage of government failure you have to reach for the Guiado supporters to gain control over the embassy.

[Lumine]

Barring another surprise or something really unexpected this seems like another failure.

By the looks of it Guaido and Lopez never had more than a few dozen soldiers behind them and were not in control of an air base, suggesting it was a gamble to try and force the military to switch sides. How Lopez escaped house arrest remains unclear, it is claimed rogue elements within SEBIN (the intelligence service, which has been arresting and/or harassing Guaido's top supporters over the last few days) conspired to release him and that the general allegedly responsible for it has already been arrested.

Since the Operación Libertad (a series of planned protests) was set to start tomorrow and not today some rumors have suggested there was a larger coup planned with military support which Guaido had to try to start earlier than planned because his arrest by the Maduro loyalists was imminent, and subsequently those who were going to defect decided not to. This ties in with what John Bolton said, that there were negotiations with Defence Minister Padrino, the head of the Supreme Tribunal of Justice and others who had agreed to oust Maduro, something Padrino has vehemently denied (so either Padrino was going to join a coup but decided not to, or Bolton is somehow trying to drive a wedge, or well, being John Bolton).

Maduro's current whereabouts have led to some speculation due to his unusual silence since a tweet in the morning in which he stated he had "nerves of steel", it's said he remains in a special bunker monitoring the situation. Pompeo said Maduro panicked and was allegedly about to flee to Cuba on a plane but was persuaded not to by Moscow and Havana.

So yeah, quite a mess. Every day that passes and Guaido is unable to assume actual powers/authority means the opposition grows weaker - because it's obvious there won't be any foreign military intervention under the present circumstances - and the more likely it becomes the government will eventually arrest Guaido and key figures of the opposition Congress. On the other hand, sanctions seem to be crippling Maduro (which means Cuba isn't enough and he'll need Russia and China to bail him out at a significant cost) and he's clearly lost popular support, and the fact he hasn't arrested Guaido yet is a clear sign of weakness.

I have no idea what's going to happen - though my guess is Maduro will eventually arrest Guaido and use the military to remain in power at any cost -, but this can't go on much longer without an actual resolution.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Neocon imperialism is the great evil of the 21st century.

[HillGoose]

Neocon imperialism is the great evil of the 21st century.

nah man communitarianism and socialism (like in Venezuela) are.

[HillGoose]

Maybe Blackwater might go public at such a great time, seems like they’re preparing for a golden opportunity

Over the last several months, the sources said, Prince has sought investment and political support for such an operation from influential Trump supporters and wealthy Venezuelan exiles. In private meetings in the United States and Europe, Prince sketched out a plan to field up to 5,000 soldiers-for-hire on behalf of Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido, according to two sources with direct knowledge of Prince’s pitch.

One source said Prince has conducted meetings about the issue as recently as mid-April.

White House National Security Council spokesman Garrett Marquis declined to comment when asked whether Prince had proposed his plan to the government and whether it would be considered. A person familiar with the administration’s thinking said the White House would not support such a plan.

Venezuela opposition officials have not discussed security operations with Prince, said Guaido spokesman Edward Rodriguez, who did not answer additional questions from Reuters. The Maduro government did not respond to a request for comment.

Maybe he’ll try to rival the historical ones with his new American Caribbean Corporation.  

OMG now I'm excited dude. I would so get in on that IPO let's hope that's true!

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Come on Maduro, hold on.

The  is wrong with you?

Not subscribing to the toxic Cheney/Bolton style foreign policy and propaganda, that is why Gabbard is also awesome (besides a couple areas)

Think dialectically for a fraction of a second and realize that you can be against 'toxic' foreign policy while not hoping for a dictator to remain in power.

He's the best option, not saying he is a saint or I love him, but he should stay, no Halliburton-like fake "democratic" stooges. What a coincidence Venezuela has oil. Say no to war, say no to the innocents and heroes losing their lives for corporate greed.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

https://twitter.com/VoteOjeda2020/status/1114240767034318848

War hero Ojeda 100% on the mark here (Ik we are not sending our troops to Venezuela, but consider this a broader point for purpose).

[OSR stands with Israel]

The CIA should have been sent especially after the Russians and Chinese directly decided to intervene .

[OSR stands with Israel]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

The Korean was clearly justified as the North and the Commies were the clear aggressor. The only bad part was the North didnt fall as well which it would have if UN forces stopped after capturing Pyongyang instead of going to the Yalu River.

[Woody]

The CIA The marines/Air Force should have been sent especially after the Russians and Chinese directly decided to intervene .

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The CIA should have been sent especially after the Russians and Chinese directly decided to intervene .

And this is how the people of Venezuela, in addition to having to endure already s**ty conditions, will bear the burn of foreign powers using them as pawns in another proxy war. This is just depressing.

[dead0man]

Hopefully people in other countries will learn the lesson of never letting people like Chavez near power again.  Sadly collectivist liars (collectivist liars is redundant, so just) collectivists have plenty of lies to sell poor and desperate people, just like they have for the last 100 hundred years.


edit-also, wasn't the US military massing on the border?  What ever happened there?  Were the people that just knew the US was going to invade wrong?  Nooooooooooo

[LoneStarDem]

Sounds like this coup attempt will backfire. I'm wondering what happens to Guiado's family ?

[Skye]

Hi guys. I understand strong opinions for/against a US intervention in the country. That, however doesn't mean you have to support Maduro. Please understand that Venezuela under chavismo isn't a pretty place to live in. Every day, what you take for granted where you live, is a nightmare to obtain properly in Venezuela. Low salaries (It was about $6 a month last time I checked), failing basic services (electricity, running water, gas), food scarcity, insane crime rates, and absurd levels of corruption. Venezuelans deserve to live in a place where everyday routines don't look like battles to be fought and lost. We deserve to live in a place with a bright future, not a post-apocalyptic mess.

Like I said, you can be against a US military intervention (something that hasn't even happened yet), but don't you dare say you support Maduro just to spite the US.

[Karpatsky]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Thankfully this looks like it failed, good on Russia for finally starting to step up the plate and defend countries from the Halliburton type mindset.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

[Karpatsky]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

Oh, so when it's 'our kind' who want to live in peace and freedom, we need to 'look out for them', but when it's brown people or Asians, they're just fighting for 'perverted corporate democracy' and we should support their dictators. I think I see how it is now.

[Omega21]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

Oh, so when it's 'our kind' who want to live in peace and freedom, we need to 'look out for them', but when it's brown people or Asians, they're just fighting for 'perverted corporate democracy' and we should support their dictators. I think I see how it is now.

Why do you give yourself the power to decide what is better for people, and say it's better for them to die than live under x dictator?

Maduro is a maniac and much much much worse than his predecessor, but I still do not believe that America or any other country such as Russia or China simply want to "help out of the goodness of
their heart", thus 3-rd parties should stay out of it.

[Karpatsky]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

Oh, so when it's 'our kind' who want to live in peace and freedom, we need to 'look out for them', but when it's brown people or Asians, they're just fighting for 'perverted corporate democracy' and we should support their dictators. I think I see how it is now.

Why do you give yourself the power to decide what is better for people, and say it's better for them to die than live under x dictator?

Maduro is a maniac and much much much worse than his predecessor, but I still do not believe that America or any other country such as Russia or China simply want to "help out of the goodness of
their heart", thus 3-rd parties should stay out of it.

Gotta love all the people in this thread conflating supporting Guiado with calling for immediate American invasion of Venezuela. What you have is at least a coherent position, but it is not equivalent with hoping Maduro 'holds on'.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

Oh, so when it's 'our kind' who want to live in peace and freedom, we need to 'look out for them', but when it's brown people or Asians, they're just fighting for 'perverted corporate democracy' and we should support their dictators. I think I see how it is now.

It's not about color, same goes for any country, it's about watching out for our people as Americans who are btw 35-40% non-white including my entire paternal side. 

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

America has not fought a war that we should have fought for except for maybeeee Afghanistan (and even then not to this crazy extent) since WW2.

I think Korea was justified, although the U.S. shouldn't have gone into the North after repealing Kim Il-sung forces from the South.

Absolutely not, say no to war.

There are outcomes worse than war, man. Living in North Korea is one of them.

Too bad, don't care, we should look out for our own countrypeople and kind, not get them killed by the thousands to try spread some perverted form of corporate "democracy" across the planet.

Oh, so when it's 'our kind' who want to live in peace and freedom, we need to 'look out for them', but when it's brown people or Asians, they're just fighting for 'perverted corporate democracy' and we should support their dictators. I think I see how it is now.

Why do you give yourself the power to decide what is better for people, and say it's better for them to die than live under x dictator?

Maduro is a maniac and much much much worse than his predecessor, but I still do not believe that America or any other country such as Russia or China simply want to "help out of the goodness of
their heart", thus 3-rd parties should stay out of it.

I don't have that power, hence why Gaddafi and Saddam are gone, but anyways, because the rest of the world and especially America was better with them in power, oh no one is helping out of the goodness of their hearts, but I will warmly welcome any aid to Maduro anyways, hopefully he manages to fully route this coup and the neocons and bleeding heart war hungry dem allies.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Like I said, you can be against a US military intervention (something that hasn't even happened yet), but don't you dare say you support Maduro just to spite the US.

It's interesting that many of such folks won't dare to criticize Russia's own imperialist policies. That kind of selective anti-imperialism is blatant hypocrisy. You are either consistent or you're a fraud.