"The Left Case Against Open Borders" by Anegla Nagle

[Famous Mortimer]

No matter how meticulously I explain that taking on unlimited numbers of poor people makes it impossible for any working people to have a decent standard of living, people still think the REAL REASON I must oppose immigration is because I secretly hate brown people.

I posted these articles to show my stated views about economics are actually quite commonplace among prominent left identifying people. Albeit most remain crypto about their views for fear of having a mob of their fellow left wingers incited against them, as has happened to Nagle.

[Person Man]

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

[136or142]

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

I'm willing to accept that 'no human being is illegal' is a reference to illegal immigration.  The question is whether Tom Perez saying this in a speech to what sounded like a small number of people is of any significance or if it was just meaningless campaign rhetoric.  I think anybody who takes this rhetoric as indicative of policy, is easily frightened.

In regards to Nagle's article, I don't think the vast majority of those on the left have any problem distinguishing between accepting immigrants and helping genuine asylum seekers, and recognizing that there are limits to the number of people the U.S can accept in any given year.

So, I don't see any reason those on the left can't support both the concepts/principles that 'immigration can be a net economic positive' and that 'nobody is illegal' and also oppose 'open borders.'  That Nagle can't understand this is her problem and nobody else's.

[136or142]

For those interested in the actual facts:

https://twitter.com/bopinion/status/1066760032841359360

[Famous Mortimer]

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

[Beet]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

[Person Man]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

[Famous Mortimer]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

[BundouYMB]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

And that's bad... because?

[Famous Mortimer]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

And that's bad... because?

1) Because people living in your country should be primarily loyal to your country. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to behave in your country's best interest. People should ideally view their country as a community, not a piggy bank.

2) Because most of the economic benefit they get from coming here is due to acting as scab labor (lowering wages for people already here) and getting access to social services (having the money of native born Americans redistributed to them via taxes). Both of those things are bad for native born Americans. They are good for the immigrants but the government would ideally be more concerned with the well being of their current citizens, rather than the well being hypothetical future citizens.

[BundouYMB]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

And that's bad... because?

1) Because people living in your country should be primarily loyal to your country. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to behave in your country's best interest.

2) Because most of the economic benefit they get from coming here is due to acting as scab labor (lowering wages for people already here) and getting access to social services (having the money on native born Americans redistributed to them via taxes). Both of those things are bad for native born Americans. They are good for the immigrants but the government would ideally be more concerned with the well being of their current citizens, rather than the well being hypothetical future citizens.

1). Unsubstantiated nonsense.

2). Why should I care more about the lives of native born Americans than people who aren't native born Americans? I don't, and neither do most other Americans.

[Famous Mortimer]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

And that's bad... because?

1) Because people living in your country should be primarily loyal to your country. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to behave in your country's best interest.

2) Because most of the economic benefit they get from coming here is due to acting as scab labor (lowering wages for people already here) and getting access to social services (having the money on native born Americans redistributed to them via taxes). Both of those things are bad for native born Americans. They are good for the immigrants but the government would ideally be more concerned with the well being of their current citizens, rather than the well being hypothetical future citizens.

1). Unsubstantiated nonsense.

2). Why should I care more about the lives of native born Americans than people who aren't native born Americans? I don't, and neither do most other Americans.

All human communities since the beginning of human communities have cared more about their members than about non-members.

If you want a fundamental change in the way human society is organized, that's your right to advocate for, but don't act like your historically bizarre views are standard and obviously correct.

[Famous Mortimer]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

And that's bad... because?

1) Because people living in your country should be primarily loyal to your country. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to behave in your country's best interest.

2) Because most of the economic benefit they get from coming here is due to acting as scab labor (lowering wages for people already here) and getting access to social services (having the money on native born Americans redistributed to them via taxes). Both of those things are bad for native born Americans. They are good for the immigrants but the government would ideally be more concerned with the well being of their current citizens, rather than the well being hypothetical future citizens.

1). Unsubstantiated nonsense.

2). Why should I care more about the lives of native born Americans than people who aren't native born Americans? I don't, and neither do most other Americans.

I just realized

You said it was "nonsense" that immigrants don't put the interests of America first

and then you said you don't differentiate between the interests of Americans and the interests of foreigners

lol

[PSOL]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

Well just a few months ago the Honduran Government was arresting and shooting protesters. Seems easier to just move for the benefit of your family then get shot in a revolution, a revolution that would ultimately be squashed by the U.S.–backed regime.

Why don’t we help the immigrants home country develop jobs and personal liberties, that way they won’t immigrate here. Why don’t we also stop buying drugs in large quantities, causing violence in the region.

You lie that Immigrants only converse with their own people. I see my own talk to regular joes all the time. I see Muslims celebrate Hannukah over here. I know that there is actually a lack of conversing with the immigrants own, taking the toll of weakening their mother tongues and customs. I know soldiers from all backgrounds going to fight for liberty here. Stop lying here now, some of us actually are these people.

[BundouYMB]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

And that's bad... because?

1) Because people living in your country should be primarily loyal to your country. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to behave in your country's best interest.

2) Because most of the economic benefit they get from coming here is due to acting as scab labor (lowering wages for people already here) and getting access to social services (having the money on native born Americans redistributed to them via taxes). Both of those things are bad for native born Americans. They are good for the immigrants but the government would ideally be more concerned with the well being of their current citizens, rather than the well being hypothetical future citizens.

1). Unsubstantiated nonsense.

2). Why should I care more about the lives of native born Americans than people who aren't native born Americans? I don't, and neither do most other Americans.

All human communities since the beginning of human communities have cared more about their members than about non-members.

If you want a fundamental change in the way human society is organized, that's your right to advocate for, but don't act like your historically bizarre views are standard and obviously correct.

I don't know if you noticed, but America has 325 million people in it. That is not one community. Even if America was 100% white and 100% Christian like you alt right freaks want it still wouldn't be one community.

I do indeed care more about the lives of people in my local community than the lives of people outside of it. The town I live in comprises about 0.0004% of native Americans. The lives of the other 99.9996% of native Americans mean no more to me than the lives of anyone born outside of America. Furthermore, there are illegal immigrants that I consider part of my local community.

The Mexican boarder is hundreds of miles from me. That boarder has no relation to the boarders of my local community. Why should I care about the life of someone born one mile north of it more than the life of someone born one mile south of it?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Any genuine leftist would understand the people under the 70th percentile need help more than those above it, and implement the policies needed to do so.

[Famous Mortimer]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

Well just a few months ago the Honduran Government was arresting and shooting protesters. Seems easier to just move for the benefit of your family then get shot in a revolution, a revolution that would ultimately be squashed by the U.S.–backed regime.

Why don’t we help the immigrants home country develop jobs and personal liberties, that way they won’t immigrate here. Why don’t we also stop buying drugs in large quantities, causing violence in the region.

You lie that Immigrants only converse with their own people. I see my own talk to regular joes all the time. I see Muslims celebrate Hannukah over here. I know that there is actually a lack of conversing with the immigrants own, taking the toll of weakening their mother tongues and customs. I know soldiers from all backgrounds going to fight for liberty here. Stop lying here now, some of us actually are these people.

Immigrants advocating for more immigration against the wishes and economic interests of native born Americans.

That just proves my point that most immigrants don't put America first.

They put the interests of their foreign relatives who might hypothetically become Americans first and that's understandable, it's rational but it's also understandable and rational for Americans not to want anymore immigrants who don't put America first.

[BundouYMB]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

Well just a few months ago the Honduran Government was arresting and shooting protesters. Seems easier to just move for the benefit of your family then get shot in a revolution, a revolution that would ultimately be squashed by the U.S.–backed regime.

Why don’t we help the immigrants home country develop jobs and personal liberties, that way they won’t immigrate here. Why don’t we also stop buying drugs in large quantities, causing violence in the region.

You lie that Immigrants only converse with their own people. I see my own talk to regular joes all the time. I see Muslims celebrate Hannukah over here. I know that there is actually a lack of conversing with the immigrants own, taking the toll of weakening their mother tongues and customs. I know soldiers from all backgrounds going to fight for liberty here. Stop lying here now, some of us actually are these people.

Immigrants advocating for more immigration against the wishes and economic interests of native born Americans.

That just proves my point that most immigrants don't put America first.

They put the interests of their foreign relatives who might hypothetically become Americans first and that's understandable, it's rational but it's also understandable and rational for Americans not to want anymore immigrants who don't put America first.

Actually, nothing you've said is rational. You've just made a bunch of unsubstantiated claims and then drew bizarre conclusions from them.

Why didn't you reply to my comment? Tired of getting humiliated in front of an audience?

[Famous Mortimer]

We need to recognize that everyone in this thread is being self interested. No one here is showing "solidarity".

Immigrants are advocating for more American resources to go to immigrants.

I, a native born American, am advocating that American resources stay among the current population.

The only difference is I'm in my own country, the country my parents were born in. I'm not going to another country and advocating that I get their resources.

[BundouYMB]

We need to recognize that everyone in this thread is being self interested. No one here is showing "solidarity".

Immigrants are advocating for more American resources to go to immigrants.

I, a native born American, am advocating that American resources stay among the current population.

The only difference is I'm in my own country, the country my parents were born in. I'm not going to another country and advocating that I get their resources.

Actually, if you utilized the gift of reading comprehension then you would know that I am a native born American who is advocating more resources going to immigrants.

I truly wish you could break free of your delusional little version of reality long enough to see how hard PSOL and I owned you in this thread.

[Famous Mortimer]

This language on the right is as absurd as the privilege language on the left. Yes, I support "open borders", which means what the East German officials did in November 1989-- they opened the border. Unlimited immigration is a complete straw man.

Pretty much. You don't have to turn the world into a series of prisons just to have borders doesn't mean there can't be borders or rules on immigration.

Can you believe that both 1) we should have borders and 2) it should never be a crime to simply exist?

Well obviously. "No human being is illegal" is a slander that implies people who support immigration control think "people are illegal". People existing is not illegal, immigrating without authorization is illegal.

To say that Guatemalans should have to live in Guatemala is not to deny their humanity. Similarly, I do not think I should be able to go to Guatemala without the permission of their government. I am not denying my own humanity by saying that.

This is closer to the problem. There are many people who we associate with places whom themselves do not associate with this places because they feel that they cannot. The question is whether that is a problem, something that is absolutely none of our business unless we are directly impacted by it, or whether that is a good thing.

Most immigrants who come to America are economic migrants. They are not coming here because they are misunderstood emo kids who don't fit in in Honduras. In most cases, they still actually like Honduras (or wherever they are from) a whole lot. They just want to come to America because it's economically beneficial for them to do so. That's why once they get here, they usually socialize mostly with other immigrants.

Well just a few months ago the Honduran Government was arresting and shooting protesters. Seems easier to just move for the benefit of your family then get shot in a revolution, a revolution that would ultimately be squashed by the U.S.–backed regime.

Why don’t we help the immigrants home country develop jobs and personal liberties, that way they won’t immigrate here. Why don’t we also stop buying drugs in large quantities, causing violence in the region.

You lie that Immigrants only converse with their own people. I see my own talk to regular joes all the time. I see Muslims celebrate Hannukah over here. I know that there is actually a lack of conversing with the immigrants own, taking the toll of weakening their mother tongues and customs. I know soldiers from all backgrounds going to fight for liberty here. Stop lying here now, some of us actually are these people.

Immigrants advocating for more immigration against the wishes and economic interests of native born Americans.

That just proves my point that most immigrants don't put America first.

They put the interests of their foreign relatives who might hypothetically become Americans first and that's understandable, it's rational but it's also understandable and rational for Americans not to want anymore immigrants who don't put America first.

Actually, nothing you've said is rational. You've just made a bunch of unsubstantiated claims and then drew bizarre conclusions from them.

Why didn't you reply to my comment? Tired of getting humiliated in front of an audience?

I didn't respond to your comment because there was no need to. The idea that the United States shouldn't be a meaningful community in any way, that it should just be an economic zone, that's your view. I thank you for stating it so nakedly. I don't think there's any need to refute it because I think most normal people find it distasteful on their own.

[PragmaticPopulist]

This is one of the things that I actually do somewhat agree with Trump on, and I'm not afraid to say it as someone who usually cannot stand him.

While the issue of immigration is much smaller than it is made out to be, I don't see a problem with addressing concerns that people are crossing into the country illegally. I've long supported legal immigration while better enforcing the border to stop more undocumented immigrants from coming in.

As for undocumented immigrants who are already in the country, that's a tougher question. The best solution to the problem I can see is to provide a path to citizenship. However, undocumented immigrants who have committed violent crimes should be deported. This might upset those on the right who see this as "amnesty", but simply rounding up every undocumented immigrant who has lived in the country for years is impractical, and the money used to do that has better uses.

[PSOL]

We need to recognize that everyone in this thread is being self interested. No one here is showing "solidarity".

Immigrants are advocating for more American resources to go to immigrants.

I, a native born American, am advocating that American resources stay among the current population.

The only difference is I'm in my own country, the country my parents were born in. I'm not going to another country and advocating that I get their resources.

A good 20% of future American economists in my class were descendants of or are recent immigrants. Heck, an insane number of math teachers near me are immigrants. Having names such as Bohuslav, Abrahamovic, and Saiqi in the class as teachers are not uncommon in this area. Take into mind that I go to a white bread private school, those immigrants are directly fostering “your” peoples’ skills.

Tell me friend, what’s your ancestry. Let’s see if I can’t find a recent immigrant ancestor no earlier than the Mayflower Puritans.

[Famous Mortimer]

We need to recognize that everyone in this thread is being self interested. No one here is showing "solidarity".

Immigrants are advocating for more American resources to go to immigrants.

I, a native born American, am advocating that American resources stay among the current population.

The only difference is I'm in my own country, the country my parents were born in. I'm not going to another country and advocating that I get their resources.

A good 20% of future American economists in my class were descendants of or are recent immigrants. Heck, an insane number of math teachers near me are immigrants. Having names such as Bohuslav, Abrahamovic, and Saiqi in the class as teachers are not uncommon in this area. Take into mind that I go to a white bread private school, those immigrants are directly fostering “your” peoples’ skills.

Tell me friend, what’s your ancestry. Let’s see if I can’t find a recent immigrant ancestor no earlier than the Mayflower Puritans.

lol economists contribute jack to the economy. All they do is write papers about how we need more immigration.

We could deport every immigrant AND native born economist tomorrow and it wouldn't make a difference to the economy.

[Famous Mortimer]

"if we don't have immigrants, who will write the Cato Institute policy papers advocating for more immigrants!"