Will Brazilian democracy die out soon?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I bet Bolsonaro will be basically Brazil's Erdogan.

[Beet]

Democracy is pretty much in retreat everywhere. Its like a reverse-1980s.

[SATW]

I agree w/ Beet.

[smoltchanov]

I agree w/ Beet.

Me too. In the late 1980th - early 1990th we had democrasy on the rise even in usually very authoritarian Russia. Now - we have... what we have. And - not only we..

[morgieb]

I loathe to agree with our resident chicken little....but he's right. Worldwide fascists are gaining momentum...and I have no idea how they can be stopped in Erdogan-esque cases.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Erdogan is the wrong comparison, given that Bolsonaro never even bothered with the niceties that Erdogan initially presented himself with. Jair is more like Subianto or Duterte.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

What are the odds of Bolsonaro having a working coalition in Congress? Lacking the one was what pretty much killed Quadros.

[Lechasseur]

No

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Looks like Brazil would be better off than it has under socialists.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/brazil-election-real-rallies-jair-bolsonaro-wins-first-round-2018-10-1027597543

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Erdogan is the wrong comparison, given that Bolsonaro never even bothered with the niceties that Erdogan initially presented himself with. Jair is more like Subianto or Duterte.

Given Brazil's history with death squads, Duterte seems like a good comparision.

[ON Progressive]

Bolsonaro will likely win, so yes.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Looks like Brazil would be better off than it has under socialists.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/brazil-election-real-rallies-jair-bolsonaro-wins-first-round-2018-10-1027597543

So markets' initial reaction is more important than potential loss of democracy and a leader who supports murderous military regimes as role models?

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Looks like Brazil would be better off than it has under socialists.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/brazil-election-real-rallies-jair-bolsonaro-wins-first-round-2018-10-1027597543

So markets' initial reaction is more important than potential loss of democracy and a leader who supports murderous military regimes as role models?

It worked for Pinochet and Chile *shrug*

[PSOL]

Looks like Brazil would be better off than it has under socialists.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/brazil-election-real-rallies-jair-bolsonaro-wins-first-round-2018-10-1027597543

So markets' initial reaction is more important than potential loss of democracy and a leader who supports murderous military regimes as role models?

It worked for Pinochet and Chile *shrug*

It was the same for Erdogan, wait for the economy to collapse.

[parochial boy]

Looks like Brazil would be better off than it has under socialists.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/brazil-election-real-rallies-jair-bolsonaro-wins-first-round-2018-10-1027597543

Ah yes, noted socialist... Michel Temer...

*laughs hysterically*

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Looks like Brazil would be better off than it has under socialists.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/brazil-election-real-rallies-jair-bolsonaro-wins-first-round-2018-10-1027597543

Ah yes, noted socialist... Michel Temer...

*laughs hysterically*

Just seems like Brazil gets the short end of the stick no matter which way they go. They did have a growing libertarian movement for a bit, shame that has petered out and given way to despair.

[Mike88]

No, i don't think so. I don't think Bolsonaro, if he's even elected, that's more likely than unlikely but still, will be a very strong President. Bolsonaro's campaign and rhetoric seems like a rerun of a bad movie, and there's a lot of examples around the world currently, and in the past, that this kind of Presidents don't really make positive changes. My honest hunch, is that 2/3 years from now, Bolsonaro will be as unpopular, or more, as Temer is right now.

For Brazil's sake, and for the sake of relations between Portugal and Brazil, i pray that i am right.

[Person Man]

With liberal democracy being replaced with Fascist dictatorships, how much longer until they start wars and so on? You know, start conquering their neighbors.

[seb_pard]

Looks like Brazil would be better off than it has under socialists.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/brazil-election-real-rallies-jair-bolsonaro-wins-first-round-2018-10-1027597543

So markets' initial reaction is more important than potential loss of democracy and a leader who supports murderous military regimes as role models?

It worked for Pinochet and Chile *shrug*

no

[OctoCube]

No, i don't think so. I don't think Bolsonaro, if he's even elected, that's more likely than unlikely but still, will be a very strong President. Bolsonaro's campaign and rhetoric seems like a rerun of a bad movie, and there's a lot of examples around the world currently, and in the past, that this kind of Presidents don't really make positive changes. My honest hunch, is that 2/3 years from now, Bolsonaro will be as unpopular, or more, as Temer is right now.

For Brazil's sake, and for the sake of relations between Portugal and Brazil, i pray that i am right.

I don't know, It's gonna be pretty hard to beat Tener's 2% approval rate.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Looks like Brazil would be better off than it has under socialists.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/brazil-election-real-rallies-jair-bolsonaro-wins-first-round-2018-10-1027597543

So markets' initial reaction is more important than potential loss of democracy and a leader who supports murderous military regimes as role models?

It worked for Pinochet and Chile *shrug*

"I'm so libertarian, I support murderous authoritarian dictatorships because markets."

[JA]

Democracy is in retreat because it isn't serving the interests of the ruling classes like it once did. Once democracy proves itself to not be sufficiently useful for privileged interests, then they'll transition into authoritarianism and/or dictatorships. And the privileged of the involved countries will find a way to justify the retreat of democracy - or outright cheer for it.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Probably not, and if it does, it won't be Bolsonaro's fold, but the forces that brought him to power. The corrupt, balkanized and fractioned political field made the road clear for populist candidates to arise out of the field. Clearly, something has went terribly wrong in Brazil. I believe the democracy already isn't strong in Brazil. Lula for example was forbidden to run, and the large amount of corrupt politicians in Latin-America bother me a lot. But it isn't a good evolution either. Erdogan, Putin and Trump however are all democratically elected, and they're all still democratic, so no democracy isn't going to die out soon, unless you Russia, Hungary and Turkey not as democracies... In that case, it is. But i believe America isn't any different than Putin's Russia, they're all authoritarian democracies directed by market liberal policies which hurt the people, the environment and the climate.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Probably not, and if it does, it won't be Bolsonaro's fold, but the forces that brought him to power. The corrupt, balkanized and fractioned political field made the road clear for populist candidates to arise out of the field. Clearly, something has went terribly wrong in Brazil. I believe the democracy already isn't strong in Brazil. Lula for example was forbidden to run, and the large amount of corrupt politicians in Latin-America bother me a lot. But it isn't a good evolution either. Erdogan, Putin and Trump however are all democratically elected, and they're all still democratic, so no democracy isn't going to die out soon, unless you Russia, Hungary and Turkey not as democracies... In that case, it is. But i believe America isn't any different than Putin's Russia, they're all authoritarian democracies directed by market liberal policies which hurt the people, the environment and the climate.

Russia and Turkey are definitely not democracies.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Probably not, and if it does, it won't be Bolsonaro's fold, but the forces that brought him to power. The corrupt, balkanized and fractioned political field made the road clear for populist candidates to arise out of the field. Clearly, something has went terribly wrong in Brazil. I believe the democracy already isn't strong in Brazil. Lula for example was forbidden to run, and the large amount of corrupt politicians in Latin-America bother me a lot. But it isn't a good evolution either. Erdogan, Putin and Trump however are all democratically elected, and they're all still democratic, so no democracy isn't going to die out soon, unless you Russia, Hungary and Turkey not as democracies... In that case, it is. But i believe America isn't any different than Putin's Russia, they're all authoritarian democracies directed by market liberal policies which hurt the people, the environment and the climate.

Russia and Turkey are definitely not democracies.

They're maybe not full democracies, but people still elect Erdogan and Putin? I mean in all western countries, people vote mainly for capitalist countries, and because the opposition never gets a voice, those countries are still democratic? When a candidate suddenly isn't a pro-western liberal capitalist anymore, they're not democratic anymore?

You can tell that those countries are not fully democratic, because those parties might not get the deserving media attention and some candidates are forbidden to run. There are fake political parties who don't want to change and are just pro-Putin parties, but i can tell about how the USA isn't a full democracy either, because every third party is being silenced to death, never invited to debates, doesn't get financing (unless they meet ridicilously high requirements), the primaries are rigged, the media is very partisan (and aside of FOX, local and untraditional media without exception all endorsed the same candidate (which isn't healthy as well) and the entire country is very partisan and polarizing and there is no third party who can break the system even when both parties might have the most unpopular candidates since basically ever? I have my doubts about that. But the USA is still a democracy, just like Russia and Turkey are as well... More than 50% voted for Erdogan and Putin... Well they're not my candidates, but what can you change about it. That's what the people want, and you have to respect that. That doesn't mean, i wouldn't campaign and try to have a better result next time, but i would at least not campaign with: "Russia influenced the elections", or everything Trump / Erdogan / Putin does bad, and we all should do the opposite. If Trump would raise minimum wage, you could bet most democrats would oppose that and most republican voters would favour it as long he phrased it correctly, because politics have evolved in such a partisan thing.