Anti-Semitism in UK Labour megathread

[Statilius the Epicurean]

This should really be part of the UK General Discussion thread. Despite his protestations to the contrary, Field's resignation has little if anything to do with Corbyn's alleged antisemitism.

Yeah, he was going to be deselected anyway after he voted to keep the Tories in power last month.

[Silent Hunter]

Anyway, Corbyn voted against his party hundreds of times with no comeback.

[Intell]

^^ I don't think that's a fair assessment...
Frank Field have always held Eurosceptic views along with Austin Mitchell, Tony Ben, Barbara Castle, etc
just like Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine and Anna Soubry always held pro EU views,
To say he voted to save the Tories is completely unfair...
It's was a  vote about the customs Union not a vote of no confidence...
Some Tories voted with labour, are they voting to bring the tory gouvernement down?

This is ridiculous, the deselection efforts on him are stupid.

[BBD]

It's beyond obvious that the right-wing British mainstream media, in cahoots with the Israeli lobby, are constantly manufacturing and spinning little "scandals" to take Corbyn down. It's a no-win situation; no matter how much he does, there will always be more demanded of him.

[Silent Hunter]

Well, he could start by actually doing something. Also. they're just using his own words and actions, they're not making those up.

[BBD]

Well, he could start by actually doing something. Also. they're just using his own words and actions, they're not making those up.

What more can he do? He has already unnecessarily apologized, firmly stated his intent on rooting out any vestiges of intra-party "anti-semitism", but the media continues to criticize his every action, stir the pot, insinuate, and push an agenda that is intent on toppling him. Death by a thousand cuts, so to speak. If you've ever bothered glancing at headlines in UK newspapers and news sites, you should be able to see what that entails. The Israeli lobby will continue to push for the abrogation of criticism of the Israeli state, and tar and feather anyone who doesn't fit their utmost standard.

[Silent Hunter]

Accept the IHRA definitions. Visit Israel and place a wreath at Yad Vashem. Condemn those who smear critics of his leadership as paid agents of Israel.

[Intell]

Accept the IHRA definitions. Visit Israel and place a wreath at Yad Vashem. Condemn those who smear critics of his leadership as paid agents of Israel.

Why does he need to do this? IHRA definition is fundamentally wrong.

[BBD]

Let's see here...Corbyn was attacked by the right-wing media for attending a Passover event with the group Jewdas. Is it not anti-semitic in and of itself that the media insinuates that somehow, Jews that don't fit in with right-wing, Zionist positions aren't "real" Jews?

https://skwawkbox.org/2018/04/03/attacks-on-corbyn-for-spending-passover-with-the-wrong-jews-and-what-they-might-mean/

In your blog linked in your signature, you claim that the term "Nazi" is ridiculous when applied to such characters that promote rabid violence and genocide against Palestinians. I agree that perhaps that term shouldn't be used - what about fascist instead? Is that still anti-semitic?

https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1034849460344573952

It might also do you well to read up on the Israeli lobby and its long reach within the British government, especially within the Conservative Party. This article sums it up nicely.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/11/15/how-israel-lobby-works-in-britain.html

It certainly wouldn't be surprising if the Israeli government were somehow actively pushing propaganda onto the general populace of Western countries such as Great Britain, now, would it? Oh yes, everyone does it, but is that an excuse for the blatancy and fashion in which it occurs?

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896

Overall, I just find it sad that you've fully ingested and believe in this message being pushed onto you - there are undoubtedly many others in a similar boat. Just remember that, as a self-proclaimed socialist, based on your avatar, you should be more offended by the utter incompetence of May's administration and much more outraged by the unfettered Capital that threatens us as human beings than by phony "problems" in Labour, a party that has been reformed into a vehicle against capitalistic forces thanks very much to the prowess of Jeremy Corbyn. He is perceived by corporate, right-wing interests as a threat to this unsustainable, immoral, inhumane system, and that is why he has been smeared and targeted.

[cp]

Insisting the antisemitism accusations against Corbyn, or the Labour Party's inadequate response to antisemitic sentiments within its ranks, are nothing more than propaganda manufactured by the 'Israeli lobby' or the reactionary press is as narrow minded and naive as insisting Corbyn is an inveterate antisemite.

*Of course* there are people who are using the situation to opportunistically score partisan/ideological points. That's politics. Labour/Corbyn supporters should not let indignation about being delivered a low blow when they're down blind them to the serious and legitimate concerns of people speaking up about antisemitic rhetoric/acts (which have been on the rise for the past few years, along with Islamophobia, homophobia, racism, and xenophobia writ large).

As to the IHRA definition, I think Labour would be unwise to adopt it wholesale. On a purely political front, it would do little to stem the tide of accusations of antisemitism within the party (it could very well do the opposite!). On a broader point of principle, the IHRA definition does have serious shortcomings that ought not be ignored for the sake of political expediency.

[Silent Hunter]

One problem is that since anti-Zionist comments and anti-Semitic ones are often very similar to each other, people have difficulty telling the difference.

[DC Al Fine]

Insisting the antisemitism accusations against Corbyn, or the Labour Party's inadequate response to antisemitic sentiments within its ranks, are nothing more than propaganda manufactured by the 'Israeli lobby' or the reactionary press is as narrow minded and naive as insisting Corbyn is an inveterate antisemite.

And its just a tad anti-semitic. It carries a vibe like: "Corbyn wouldn't be in such trouble if it weren't for TEH JOOS!!!"

*Of course* there are people who are using the situation to opportunistically score partisan/ideological points. That's politics. Labour/Corbyn supporters should not let indignation about being delivered a low blow when they're down blind them to the serious and legitimate concerns of people speaking up about antisemitic rhetoric/acts (which have been on the rise for the past few years, along with Islamophobia, homophobia, racism, and xenophobia writ large).

This one is particularly silly on Atlas where we study politics for fun. It's politics, of course the other parties are going to jump Labour's errors. hat are we going to complain about next; the other team trying to score after your side makes a defensive mistake?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

They should split. And make clear that they will never sit with a Labour government under Corbyn.

It's not just about keeping him out of power, it's about denying him the prestige of the "Honorable opposition". As long as he has a party that is close in numbers to the Tories under his thrall, he gains international respect. A huge chunk of his MPs leaving would make clear to the world that he's leading nothing more than the BNP in a Che t-shirt.

[cp]

They should split. And make clear that they will never sit with a Labour government under Corbyn.

It's not just about keeping him out of power, it's about denying him the prestige of the "Honorable opposition". As long as he has a party that is close in numbers to the Tories under his thrall, he gains international respect. A huge chunk of his MPs leaving would make clear to the world that he's leading nothing more than the BNP in a Che t-shirt.

See, this is exactly what I was talking about. Labour's poor handling of antisemitic remarks and actions by its members is shameful, and Corbyn is a part of that, but it doesn't come close to the outright racism of the BNP.

As Silent Hunter alluded to, it's a problem when people can't distinguish between outright antisemitism, borderline statements that could be taken either way, and legitimate criticism of Israeli policies. Not only does it unfairly calumniate people who are making arguments critical of Israel in good faith (read: not due to antisemitism), it shamefully provides rhetorical cover to people who are making antisemitic arguments but disingenuously claim they are not.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

They should split. And make clear that they will never sit with a Labour government under Corbyn.

It's not just about keeping him out of power, it's about denying him the prestige of the "Honorable opposition". As long as he has a party that is close in numbers to the Tories under his thrall, he gains international respect. A huge chunk of his MPs leaving would make clear to the world that he's leading nothing more than the BNP in a Che t-shirt.

See, this is exactly what I was talking about. Labour's poor handling of antisemitic remarks and actions by its members is shameful, and Corbyn is a part of that, but it doesn't come close to the outright racism of the BNP.

As Silent Hunter alluded to, it's a problem when people can't distinguish between outright antisemitism, borderline statements that could be taken either way, and legitimate criticism of Israeli policies. Not only does it unfairly calumniate people who are making arguments critical of Israel in good faith (read: not due to antisemitism), it shamefully provides rhetorical cover to people who are making antisemitic arguments but disingenuously claim they are not.

Corbyn's Jewish "cover group" JVL just scheduled a meeting on anti-semitism for Yom Kippur. This isn't about Israel anymore and hasn't been for some time.

The hostility that UK Labour has shown towards British Jews making good faith criticisms of the party's anti-semitism has taken this to a completely different level.

[Blair]

It's beyond obvious that the right-wing British mainstream media, in cahoots with the Israeli lobby, are constantly manufacturing and spinning little "scandals" to take Corbyn down. It's a no-win situation; no matter how much he does, there will always be more demanded of him.

Which is of course why the Guardian, Gordon Brown, and Major trade unions like UNISON and GMB have all came out against antisemitism, and said that Labour needs to both reform it's internal practices, and that the leadership needs to take a much stronger stance.

Besides; these scandals aren't manufactured. They come from the stupid, insulting and frankly stupid comments that Corbyn has made (defending an antisemitic mural, saying 'Zionists' lack an 'english sense of humour' and need to learn more about Britain, not speaking out against rancid racists like Pete Willsman and yes his own brother Piers Corbyn)

[Silent Hunter]

It is well worth reading about the "anti-Zionist" campaign in Poland in 1968.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It's beyond obvious that the right-wing British mainstream media, in cahoots with the Israeli lobby, are constantly manufacturing and spinning little "scandals" to take Corbyn down. It's a no-win situation; no matter how much he does, there will always be more demanded of him.

Which is of course why the Guardian, Gordon Brown, and Major trade unions like UNISON and GMB have all came out against antisemitism, and said that Labour needs to both reform it's internal practices, and that the leadership needs to take a much stronger stance.

Besides; these scandals aren't manufactured. They come from the stupid, insulting and frankly stupid comments that Corbyn has made (defending an antisemitic mural, saying 'Zionists' lack an 'english sense of humour' and need to learn more about Britain, not speaking out against rancid racists like Pete Willsman and yes his own brother Piers Corbyn)

Corbyn is against anti-semitism as well. Brown obviously wants someone more from the Brown/Blair wing of the party than Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

[Blair]

It's beyond obvious that the right-wing British mainstream media, in cahoots with the Israeli lobby, are constantly manufacturing and spinning little "scandals" to take Corbyn down. It's a no-win situation; no matter how much he does, there will always be more demanded of him.

Which is of course why the Guardian, Gordon Brown, and Major trade unions like UNISON and GMB have all came out against antisemitism, and said that Labour needs to both reform it's internal practices, and that the leadership needs to take a much stronger stance.

Besides; these scandals aren't manufactured. They come from the stupid, insulting and frankly stupid comments that Corbyn has made (defending an antisemitic mural, saying 'Zionists' lack an 'english sense of humour' and need to learn more about Britain, not speaking out against rancid racists like Pete Willsman and yes his own brother Piers Corbyn)

Corbyn is against anti-semitism as well. Brown obviously wants someone more from the Brown/Blair wing of the party than Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

Ugh Brown doesn’t want anyone from the Blair wing of the leadership winning (see his endorsement of Ed M in 2010, his endorsement of Yvette) Besides Brown knows Labour well enough to know A.) Corbyn isn’t quitting B.) A speech by Brown wouldn’t bring him down C.) JCs successor will be from the left.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It's beyond obvious that the right-wing British mainstream media, in cahoots with the Israeli lobby, are constantly manufacturing and spinning little "scandals" to take Corbyn down. It's a no-win situation; no matter how much he does, there will always be more demanded of him.

Which is of course why the Guardian, Gordon Brown, and Major trade unions like UNISON and GMB have all came out against antisemitism, and said that Labour needs to both reform it's internal practices, and that the leadership needs to take a much stronger stance.

Besides; these scandals aren't manufactured. They come from the stupid, insulting and frankly stupid comments that Corbyn has made (defending an antisemitic mural, saying 'Zionists' lack an 'english sense of humour' and need to learn more about Britain, not speaking out against rancid racists like Pete Willsman and yes his own brother Piers Corbyn)

Corbyn is against anti-semitism as well. Brown obviously wants someone more from the Brown/Blair wing of the party than Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

Ugh Brown doesn’t want anyone from the Blair wing of the leadership winning (see his endorsement of Ed M in 2010, his endorsement of Yvette) Besides Brown knows Labour well enough to know A.) Corbyn isn’t quitting B.) A speech by Brown wouldn’t bring him down C.) JCs successor will be from the left.

Well, I don't know about Brown, but some have admitted that this is about replacing Corbyn.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

www.theguardian.com/news/2018/sep/02/margaret-hodge-jeremy-corbyn-problem-labour-antisemitism-crisis

[Blair]

But that’s like saying that Corbyn only opposed Iraq because a labour leader he wanted to replace supported it

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

But that’s like saying that Corbyn only opposed Iraq because a labour leader he wanted to replace supported it

Look, it's obvious these people criticizing Corbyn never wanted him in the first place. They even ran personal Facebook ads for Corbyn to convince him that they were running the Facebook ads he wanted.  If people cared more about the IRA they'd be running with that instead.

[Silent Hunter]

Peter Willsman elected to NEC

[DaWN]

https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1036645423862226944



^^ 70,321 Labour members should be ashamed of themselves ....

Hopefully this will get the remaining Labour moderates to stop deluding themselves that the party is salvageable, but I'm not holding out much hope.

[Blair]

Don't read too much into NEC Elections- and not just because of the very low turnout. When I first voted in 2014 I had no idea what it even was so I voted for Ken Livingstone, and picked the others based on who had written good statements. This year I didn't vote for the straight Progress/Labour first slate because I despise one of it's members, and wanted to vote for Anne Black. Previously I've voted for someone from own CLP who was running a single issue campaign.

Besides, people generally vote right at the beginning when you get sent your ballot (was in mid july I think?) or right at the end (when they get an nagging email) So a fair few people may have voted for Willsman before his comments came to light. But he's always been a cantankerous bigot- so yes, not good to have him on the NEC.