Is refusing to have sex with trans people inherently transphobic?

[The Govanah Jake]

Refusing to have sex with anyone for any reason is always acceptable and anyone who says otherwise is an utter creep.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Also, if you have are a man, and you are attracted to penises, you are not straight.

[Goldwater]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

Really? I am quite skeptical of the claim that "quite a lot" of (non-bi) people don't care about sexual organs when it comes to, you know, sex...

[RINO Tom]

Seriously, how is this a question?  If you refuse to have sex with a trans person that you are sexually attracted to, I guess that could be considered "transphobic," but if you have a sexual-attraction-roadblock to having sex with a woman who used to be a man (or vice versa), you're not some bigoted asshole.

[Old Man Willow]

Seriously, how is this a question?  If you refuse to have sex with a trans person that you are sexually attracted to, I guess that could be considered "transphobic," but if you have a sexual-attraction-roadblock to having sex with a woman who used to be a man (or vice versa), you're not some bigoted asshole.

Absolutely, one cannot control sexual attraction. If one is not attracted to people who have had genitalia removed, it does not make them transphobic, just as if someone is not attracted to dark skin it does not make them racist.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

This is a fun little study actually (although it treats Blanchard, a hack, a bit too seriously)

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/who-are-gynandromorphophilic-men-characterizing-men-with-sexual-interest-in-transgender-women/C53A4234C8AD66052EEB4701E78A82BE/core-reader

Anyway Scarlet, I get what you're tying to say but I think it may be coming across a little too strong? Likewise BRTD, I don't honestly think you're trying to be offensive, but some of your rhetoric is also coming off a bit much.

( #bothsides )

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I just took a look at DearCisPeople, I am at a loss for words.

[Mr. Morden]

I think this is related to the question in this thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=173233.msg3721795#msg3721795

about whether being "grossed out by gay sex" automatically implies homophobia. 

Eh, I am not sure they are that related - as you implied, it is possible to be disgusted by something but still understand that they are acceptable and natural for other people. You can be disgusted by the thought of gay sex, but still understand that it is perfectly acceptable for people to have, and in that respect it doesn't influence your behaviour or interactions with gay people.

On the other hand, refusing to have sex with a trans person does actually involve how you behave towards and interact with trans people; and in that respect, it has a more direct effect on them.

Not commenting on whether it is legitimate to refuse to have sex with a trans person or not (I don't even know if I would have sex with a transwoman), but I don't think it can be claimed that it isn't at least mildly transphobic - because you are modifying your behaviour towards someone because of who they are, in a way that does hurt them.

I'm talking about the attraction (or lack thereof) itself being akin to the "disgust with something that you morally approve of".  If you are not sexually attracted to a trans person who you would be if they were not trans, does that in itself mean that you're transphobic?  The attraction, on its own, isn't about behavior.

And then, if you buy that there isn't a problem with not being attracted to someone because they are trans, I guess the next step is to ask where that leaves you re: deciding whether or not to have sex with them, or for that matter, pursuing a long term relationship with them, if they were the sort of person who you might be interested in if they were not trans?  Do you pretend to be attracted to them, because not doing so would be transphobic?

And what is the dividing line on when this is bigotry or not?  If you're attracted more to people of certain races than others, is that racist?  Or is being trans different, because you might not be able to tell on the basis of physical appearance?

[IceSpear]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

Really? I am quite skeptical of the claim that "quite a lot" of (non-bi) people don't care about sexual organs when it comes to, you know, sex...

Well, there's straight and then there's "straight"...

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

So does that make demonization of a traumatized rape victim OK? Or for that matter anyone? Is demonizing anyone over their sexual preferences OK?

Also in regards to this:

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

Did they even know her past? What was the other context of it.

On the image, even if you ignore the fact that it's a single cherrypicked image, I highly doubt trauma victim is what they were thinking about when they typed that. Probably more "you f**king t****y".

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't say that often, but BRTD is 100% correct in this thread.

[parochial boy]

I think this is related to the question in this thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=173233.msg3721795#msg3721795

about whether being "grossed out by gay sex" automatically implies homophobia. 

Eh, I am not sure they are that related - as you implied, it is possible to be disgusted by something but still understand that they are acceptable and natural for other people. You can be disgusted by the thought of gay sex, but still understand that it is perfectly acceptable for people to have, and in that respect it doesn't influence your behaviour or interactions with gay people.

On the other hand, refusing to have sex with a trans person does actually involve how you behave towards and interact with trans people; and in that respect, it has a more direct effect on them.

Not commenting on whether it is legitimate to refuse to have sex with a trans person or not (I don't even know if I would have sex with a transwoman), but I don't think it can be claimed that it isn't at least mildly transphobic - because you are modifying your behaviour towards someone because of who they are, in a way that does hurt them.

I'm talking about the attraction (or lack thereof) itself being akin to the "disgust with something that you morally approve of".  If you are not sexually attracted to a trans person who you would be if they were not trans, does that in itself mean that you're transphobic?  The attraction, on its own, isn't about behavior.

And then, if you buy that there isn't a problem with not being attracted to someone because they are trans, I guess the next step is to ask where that leaves you re: deciding whether or not to have sex with them, or for that matter, pursuing a long term relationship with them, if they were the sort of person who you might be interested in if they were not trans?  Do you pretend to be attracted to them, because not doing so would be transphobic?

And what is the dividing line on when this is bigotry or not?  If you're attracted more to people of certain races than others, is that racist?  Or is being trans different, because you might not be able to tell on the basis of physical appearance?

I think that the last line is more or less the jist of it. Being trans  it not a physical characteristic like skin colour; so the question of not being attracted to someone because they are trans would only arise on finding that fact out. If you are attracted to someone, and then cease to be because they are transgender, but otherwise physically a woman, that seems qualitatively different to not being attracted to someone because you don't find them physically attractive.

In that respect, refusing to be intimate with someone for being trans seems more aking to refusing to have sex with someone becuase they suffer from a mental illness, or because they are jewish. And is refusing to have sex with someone because they are depressed a problem? I can't even beging to know what the answer to that is.

And even then, I feel that people who say that they are not attracted to certain physical characteristics doesn't mean that they can't be. A person can have a preference for blue eyes say, but that doesn't mean they will never find someone with brown eyes attractive.

[heatcharger]

Actually, BRTD's being pretty generous to other "side" with the way he framed this question, since it shouldn't even matter what you're labeled as for having your own sexual preferences.

[dead0man]

Really? I am quite skeptical of the claim that "quite a lot" of (non-bi) people don't care about sexual organs when it comes to, you know, sex...

Well, there's straight and then there's "straight"...

[7,052,770]

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

Really? I am quite skeptical of the claim that "quite a lot" of (non-bi) people don't care about sexual organs when it comes to, you know, sex...

Yeah, virtually no straight men are going to have sex with someone with a penis. Not really sure how this fact isn't obvious and well-known to everyone.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

So does that make demonization of a traumatized rape victim OK? Or for that matter anyone? Is demonizing anyone over their sexual preferences OK?

Also in regards to this:

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

Did they even know her past? What was the other context of it.

On the image, even if you ignore the fact that it's a single cherrypicked image, I highly doubt trauma victim is what they were thinking about when they typed that. Probably more "you f**king t****y".

Yes, it was quite clear. The response to her was something along the lines of "You were raped by a man, not a woman with a penis, it's not the same thing, stop being a bigot" and then a bunch of raving about something something cisprivilage.

As for the image it really doesn't matter if it's a lesbian rape victim or just heterosexual guy who refuses to have sex with anyone with male genitalia, anyone has the right to refuse consent.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

So does that make demonization of a traumatized rape victim OK? Or for that matter anyone? Is demonizing anyone over their sexual preferences OK?

Also in regards to this:

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

Did they even know her past? What was the other context of it.

On the image, even if you ignore the fact that it's a single cherrypicked image, I highly doubt trauma victim is what they were thinking about when they typed that. Probably more "you f**king t****y".

Yes, it was quite clear. The response to her was something along the lines of "You were raped by a man, not a woman with a penis, it's not the same thing, stop being a bigot" and then a bunch of raving about something something cisprivilage.

As for the image it really doesn't matter if it's a lesbian rape victim or just heterosexual guy who refuses to have sex with anyone with male genitalia, anyone has the right to refuse consent.

I'm not saying people don't, I'm saying you're probably an a**hole if you do.

[Intell]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

So does that make demonization of a traumatized rape victim OK? Or for that matter anyone? Is demonizing anyone over their sexual preferences OK?

Also in regards to this:

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

Did they even know her past? What was the other context of it.

On the image, even if you ignore the fact that it's a single cherrypicked image, I highly doubt trauma victim is what they were thinking about when they typed that. Probably more "you f**king t****y".

Yes, it was quite clear. The response to her was something along the lines of "You were raped by a man, not a woman with a penis, it's not the same thing, stop being a bigot" and then a bunch of raving about something something cisprivilage.

As for the image it really doesn't matter if it's a lesbian rape victim or just heterosexual guy who refuses to have sex with anyone with male genitalia, anyone has the right to refuse consent.

I'm not saying people don't, I'm saying you're probably an a**hole if you do.

Jesus Christ.

[Old Man Willow]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

So does that make demonization of a traumatized rape victim OK? Or for that matter anyone? Is demonizing anyone over their sexual preferences OK?

Also in regards to this:

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

Did they even know her past? What was the other context of it.

On the image, even if you ignore the fact that it's a single cherrypicked image, I highly doubt trauma victim is what they were thinking about when they typed that. Probably more "you f**king t****y".

Yes, it was quite clear. The response to her was something along the lines of "You were raped by a man, not a woman with a penis, it's not the same thing, stop being a bigot" and then a bunch of raving about something something cisprivilage.

As for the image it really doesn't matter if it's a lesbian rape victim or just heterosexual guy who refuses to have sex with anyone with male genitalia, anyone has the right to refuse consent.

I'm not saying people don't, I'm saying you're probably an a**hole if you do.

Do you understand anything about sexual attraction? It is completely beyond the realm of one's control who they are attracted to. No one is an a**hole for not being attracted to someone for any reason.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

So does that make demonization of a traumatized rape victim OK? Or for that matter anyone? Is demonizing anyone over their sexual preferences OK?

Also in regards to this:

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

Did they even know her past? What was the other context of it.

On the image, even if you ignore the fact that it's a single cherrypicked image, I highly doubt trauma victim is what they were thinking about when they typed that. Probably more "you f**king t****y".

Yes, it was quite clear. The response to her was something along the lines of "You were raped by a man, not a woman with a penis, it's not the same thing, stop being a bigot" and then a bunch of raving about something something cisprivilage.

As for the image it really doesn't matter if it's a lesbian rape victim or just heterosexual guy who refuses to have sex with anyone with male genitalia, anyone has the right to refuse consent.

I'm not saying people don't, I'm saying you're probably an a**hole if you do.

Do you understand anything about sexual attraction? It is completely beyond the realm of one's control who they are attracted to. No one is an a**hole for not being attracted to someone for any reason.

Anecdotally at least(from other trans people online) there are plenty of lesbians for whom it isn't a deal breaker, and bluntly, the majority of "no sex cause male genitals" people seem to act like the thought of a woman with a dick is inherently disgusting and not just not sexually interesting. Most of this also plays into the all to common tendancy in mainstream culture of obsession with trans womens genitals,  and the defining themselves with them. Eg most cis interviewers of trans women literally ask about whether they've had SRS yet, usually as one of the first questions.

[Hydera]

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

There's nothing transphobic about being unattracted to someone with particular genitals, regardless of their gender identity. The issue of transphobia primarily arises in "post-op" situations where the trans person has the genitalia and the gender identity to which you're attracted, yet you cannot find them attractive because they're trans.

Thing is, even that's not true. If you check out the Everyday Feminism article linked earlier, it specifically asks if a "genital preference" is transphobic and implies that it is to refuse to have sex with even a pre-op transperson. I also once saw a trans activist on Twitter tell a lesbian rape victim that her refusal to be sexually active with anyone with a penis, a sort of PTSD for her, did in fact make her a bigot.

You try not being offended by "genital preferences" when people defining you as a disgusting freak because of genitals is the ultimate source of 90% of your problems in life and has led to many like you being actively murdered.

That has nothing to do with the fact that most non-bi people can not handle a certain set of genitals sexually, and that genitals matter a lot there.

Or that attacking a traumatized rape victim over that is f[inks]ing LOW.

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

So does that make demonization of a traumatized rape victim OK? Or for that matter anyone? Is demonizing anyone over their sexual preferences OK?

Also in regards to this:

BRTD, I don’t think you have to worry about denying sex to trans women.

Well no, as I have a cisfemale girlfriend.

It just strikes me as both bizarre and disturbing how some people want different rules of consent to apply in this type of case.

Saying your an a**hole for declaring that you would never have sex with trans women =/= demanding different rules of consent.

Did they even know her past? What was the other context of it.

On the image, even if you ignore the fact that it's a single cherrypicked image, I highly doubt trauma victim is what they were thinking about when they typed that. Probably more "you f**king t****y".

Yes, it was quite clear. The response to her was something along the lines of "You were raped by a man, not a woman with a penis, it's not the same thing, stop being a bigot" and then a bunch of raving about something something cisprivilage.

As for the image it really doesn't matter if it's a lesbian rape victim or just heterosexual guy who refuses to have sex with anyone with male genitalia, anyone has the right to refuse consent.

I'm not saying people don't, I'm saying you're probably an a**hole if you do.

Do you understand anything about sexual attraction? It is completely beyond the realm of one's control who they are attracted to. No one is an a**hole for not being attracted to someone for any reason.

Anecdotally at least(from other trans people online) there are plenty of lesbians for whom it isn't a deal breaker, and bluntly, the majority of "no sex cause male genitals" people seem to act like the thought of a woman with a dick is inherently disgusting and not just not sexually interesting. Most of this also plays into the all to common tendancy in mainstream culture of obsession with trans womens genitals,  and the defining themselves with them. Eg most cis interviewers of trans women literally ask about whether they've had SRS yet, usually as one of the first questions.

Also a lot of transwomen would rather have the option of using insurance funded SRS to pay instead for FFS because more often face is far far more important matter than genitals. Considering insurance usually pays for SRS up to $15,000-20,000. The same money could be used to get the mild of FFS(forehead(brow bone), hairline change, eyebrow life, rhinoplasty, chin surgery, jaw surgery). But society wants people to think Genitals > Looks regarding trans ppl when we know its the opposite. People are so creeped out by trans genitals they'll make SRS seem more important than FFS.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

My point is that there are pretty huge reasons that trans people are so bitter about "genital preference". Though it's probably not a common thing/in context. And there are quite a lot of straight people for whom being pre op wouldn't be that big of a deal. Potentially a majority of those who aren't transphobic.

Really? I am quite skeptical of the claim that "quite a lot" of (non-bi) people don't care about sexual organs when it comes to, you know, sex...

Yeah, virtually no straight men are going to have sex with someone with a penis. Not really sure how this fact isn't obvious and well-known to everyone.

Scarlet’s definition of “not transphobic” would preclude anyone against it in the first place. But then again, that’s not “a lot” of people.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Are we all just assuming every trans woman has a penis?

[Old Man Willow]

Are we all just assuming every trans woman has a penis?

Not I. I simply find it realistic that there are other features a generic straight male could still find offputting. Whether or not that’s to be labeled “bigoted” by those whose job it is to do such things, I don’t really care.

I think it's perfectly normal for people to not be attracted to people who have had genitalia removed surgically.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Also a lot of transwomen would rather have the option of using insurance funded SRS to pay instead for FFS because more often face is far far more important matter than genitals. Considering insurance usually pays for SRS up to $15,000-20,000. The same money could be used to get the mild of FFS(forehead(brow bone), hairline change, eyebrow life, rhinoplasty, chin surgery, jaw surgery). But society wants people to think Genitals > Looks regarding trans ppl when we know its the opposite. People are so creeped out by trans genitals they'll make SRS seem more important than FFS.

What the hell does this have to do with who people choose to have sex with?