House passes Fiscal 2018 Budget 256-167, Senate 65-32

[junior chįmp]

Half this country probably didn't even know there was a shut down to begin with

[IceSpear]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequence for the ruling party.

They'll love it as much as countless parents love losing healthcare for their children, countless government employees love losing their jobs, military members/families love not getting paid, and the American public in general loves wasting billions of dollars for political posturing.

Does anybody actually have a realistic endgame for Democrats in the "keep government shut down indefinitely" scenario so many of you are begging for?

Their best case scenario basically comes down to the GOP actually caring about governing.

And that was the fatal flaw in this harebrained scheme from the very beginning. Of course, I doubt those who orchestrated it actually expected to get anything out of it, other than improving their chances in the 2020 Democratic primary.

[Chief Justice Keef]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

If Democrats want to drive policy, perhaps they should try winning elections. I'm pretty sure we were all saying that same thing to Cruz and his ilk back in 2013. Though at least they legitimately won one chamber of Congress.

This was a stupid idea from the start since there was no way to win. It was all posturing from the 2020 contenders and they dragged the rest of the caucus with them on their joyride.

You wanna talk about "winning elections"? What about the thousands of Democratic activists who are furious at Schumer for pissing away a DACA deal in order to be friends with McConnell again? Groups like Indivisible, actual grassroots organizations were demanding the Democrats stand ground and bargain for a better deal this morning. Instead, Senate Democrats didn't even extend CHIP to 10 years. They only got an empty promise on DACA.

Over the past few months, Democrats have repeatedly caved on protecting DREAMers, and the more it happens the more organizers and activists become demoralized. That's what costs elections.

[IndustrialJustice]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequence for the ruling party.

How would that be a sellout?

They can't force the Republicans to do anything. It is funny how the left complains about Democrats falling for the GOP's schtick over again and yet they fall for it themselves by believing the GOP can actually be reasoned with.

It's fairly obvious how it's a sellout. A 48-hour shutdown that re-opened without even an inch of concessions on DACA other than a *promise* by *Mitch McConnell* to eventually address it is hardly a whimper on the issue, let alone a fight.

You've already signaled the Democrats' thinking on this, as we all figured out the second it was announced: they're going to force McConnell to address it and bite the bullet of deporting them. It's for ads. It's posturing for 2018. This is obvious, and Schumer's already trying to prepare us for a classic McConnell backstab. How in the world would a Latino voter in your party not feel like the cheapest bargaining chip in the stack after today's events?

This past year has seen unparalleled citizen activism and protest in recent American political history, but the Dems pulled out after a few days and think it's worth making it more obvious than it already is to voters that Trump hates brown people.

[IceSpear]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

If Democrats want to drive policy, perhaps they should try winning elections. I'm pretty sure we were all saying that same thing to Cruz and his ilk back in 2013. Though at least they legitimately won one chamber of Congress.

This was a stupid idea from the start since there was no way to win. It was all posturing from the 2020 contenders and they dragged the rest of the caucus with them on their joyride.

You wanna talk about "winning elections"? What about the thousands of Democratic activists who are furious at Schumer for pissing away a DACA deal in order to be friends with McConnell again? Groups like Indivisible, actual grassroots organizations were demanding the Democrats stand ground and bargain for a better deal this morning. Instead, Senate Democrats didn't even extend CHIP to 10 years. They only got an empty promise on DACA.

Over the past few months, Democrats have repeatedly caved on protecting DREAMers, and the more it happens the more organizers and activists become demoralized. That's what costs elections.

When did Schumer piss away a DACA deal? Republicans control the presidency, the House, and the Senate. If Trump and 1/3 of the House and/or Senate does not want to do DACA, there's nothing the Democrats can do about it other than lawsuits. What will shutting down the government indefinitely do about it? Absolutely nothing, but it will certainly hurt millions of others, including countless children.

What was your end game in shutting down the government indefinitely? Nobody who advocates it seems to be answering this question, unsurprisingly.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

If Democrats want to drive policy, perhaps they should try winning elections. I'm pretty sure we were all saying that same thing to Cruz and his ilk back in 2013. Though at least they legitimately won one chamber of Congress.

This was a stupid idea from the start since there was no way to win. It was all posturing from the 2020 contenders and they dragged the rest of the caucus with them on their joyride.

You wanna talk about "winning elections"? What about the thousands of Democratic activists who are furious at Schumer for pissing away a DACA deal in order to be friends with McConnell again? Groups like Indivisible, actual grassroots organizations were demanding the Democrats stand ground and bargain for a better deal this morning. Instead, Senate Democrats didn't even extend CHIP to 10 years. They only got an empty promise on DACA.

Over the past few months, Democrats have repeatedly caved on protecting DREAMers, and the more it happens the more organizers and activists become demoralized. That's what costs elections.

What was your end game in shutting down the government indefinitely?

Make Trump and his administration miserable enough, due to the lack of their precious government, to sign off on the Graham-Durbin or Hurd-Aguilar bill.

[IceSpear]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequence for the ruling party.

How would that be a sellout?

They can't force the Republicans to do anything. It is funny how the left complains about Democrats falling for the GOP's schtick over again and yet they fall for it themselves by believing the GOP can actually be reasoned with.

It's fairly obvious how it's a sellout. A 48-hour shutdown that re-opened without even an inch of concessions on DACA other than a *promise* by *Mitch McConnell* to eventually address it is hardly a whimper on the issue, let alone a fight.

You've already signaled the Democrats' thinking on this, as we all figured out the second it was announced: they're going to force McConnell to address it and bite the bullet of deporting them. It's for ads. It's posturing for 2018. This is obvious, and Schumer's already trying to prepare us for a classic McConnell backstab. How in the world would a Latino voter in your party not feel like the cheapest bargaining chip in the stack after today's events?

This past year has seen unparalleled citizen activism and protest in recent American political history, but the Dems pulled out after a few days and think it's worth making it more obvious than it already is to voters that Trump hates brown people.

There's no good options here for the Democrats. That's what happens when you lose elections. Choose what you want to throw under the bus: DACA vs. CHIP/government employees/military members and families/billions and billions of dollars into the paper shredder/your own party's electoral prospects. And don't kid yourself: those are the only two options. At least in this scenario there's a chance Trump and the Republicans might do a DACA bill. It would've been DOA in an extended/indefinite shutdown. So you don't get what you wanted plus lose on countless other things too. Brilliant tactics!

Had Hillary Clinton won, which so many maroon avatars vehemently opposed with many still bragging about voting for Russian plant Jill Stein, we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. But muh Goldman Sachs! Muh neoliberal shill! Muh Trump is better because he's muh anti-establishment! Buttery males!

[SteveRogers]

Half this country probably didn't even know there was a shut down to begin with

^^^This

This is why all the “OMG which side is gonna get the blame?!?” talk was premature and rather silly. The voting public absolutely will not care about this shutdown.

[IceSpear]

Half this country probably didn't even know there was a shut down to begin with

^^^This

This is why all the “OMG which side is gonna get the blame?!?” talk was premature and rather silly. The voting public absolutely will not care about this shutdown.

They won't now. They would if it went on into November and beyond like many people wanted.

[IceSpear]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

If Democrats want to drive policy, perhaps they should try winning elections. I'm pretty sure we were all saying that same thing to Cruz and his ilk back in 2013. Though at least they legitimately won one chamber of Congress.

This was a stupid idea from the start since there was no way to win. It was all posturing from the 2020 contenders and they dragged the rest of the caucus with them on their joyride.

You wanna talk about "winning elections"? What about the thousands of Democratic activists who are furious at Schumer for pissing away a DACA deal in order to be friends with McConnell again? Groups like Indivisible, actual grassroots organizations were demanding the Democrats stand ground and bargain for a better deal this morning. Instead, Senate Democrats didn't even extend CHIP to 10 years. They only got an empty promise on DACA.

Over the past few months, Democrats have repeatedly caved on protecting DREAMers, and the more it happens the more organizers and activists become demoralized. That's what costs elections.

What was your end game in shutting down the government indefinitely?

Make Trump and his administration miserable enough, due to the lack of their precious government, to sign off on the Graham-Durbin or Hurd-Aguilar bill.

Why would Trump be miserable? He wanted a shutdown and thrives on chaos.

[Landslide Lyndon]

You know what's really funny?
People who were saying that there is no difference between Clinton and Trump now suddenly discovering that that might not be exactly true.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

Once again red avatars on here showing their hackery defending Democrats even if they bow down to Republicans...and yet we are apparently the ones that think it's reasonable to work with the extreme Republicans

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Half this country probably didn't even know there was a shut down to begin with

^^^This

This is why all the “OMG which side is gonna get the blame?!?” talk was premature and rather silly. The voting public absolutely will not care about this shutdown.

They won't now. They would if it went on into November and beyond like many people wanted.

And they would have blamed and punished the republicans.

[Yank2133]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequence for the ruling party.

How would that be a sellout?

They can't force the Republicans to do anything. It is funny how the left complains about Democrats falling for the GOP's schtick over again and yet they fall for it themselves by believing the GOP can actually be reasoned with.

It's fairly obvious how it's a sellout. A 48-hour shutdown that re-opened without even an inch of concessions on DACA other than a *promise* by *Mitch McConnell* to eventually address it is hardly a whimper on the issue, let alone a fight.

You've already signaled the Democrats' thinking on this, as we all figured out the second it was announced: they're going to force McConnell to address it and bite the bullet of deporting them. It's for ads. It's posturing for 2018. This is obvious, and Schumer's already trying to prepare us for a classic McConnell backstab. How in the world would a Latino voter in your party not feel like the cheapest bargaining chip in the stack after today's events?

This past year has seen unparalleled citizen activism and protest in recent American political history, but the Dems pulled out after a few days and think it's worth making it more obvious than it already is to voters that Trump hates brown people.

What exactly would be accomplished by holding out forever? The truth is the GOP won't act on protecting Dreamers and to make it worse, they don't give a **** about governing. They are more then willing to play these nihilist, brinkmanship games till the end of time.

The best case scenario is to bring focus to the issue and expose the GOP's hypocrisy and make them own their decision. Activists and supporters of the dreamers should stay engaged and vote in November, Icespear is right you want to drive policy, then win elections and gain control of the house. That is where most of the immigration problems start and it has been like this since 2013.

[IndustrialJustice]

There's no good options here for the Democrats. That's what happens when you lose elections.

Yeah, Democrats didn't have a real "win" available and I'm not stating otherwise. Try and keep up here, but I'm arguing that Democrats took the worst option and ran with it.

Between people not getting paid for work, sick children not getting funding (but as an issue that both parties wanted solved and only delayed for the shutdown), and brown people getting forcibly taken from their families by stormtroopers, I think the last option was the one most worth defending and the one most susceptible to Trump's whims. Going through the (apparently performative) act of shutting down the government only to re-open a few days later with no progress on DACA is a big fat sellout of your party's most vulnerable voters and citizens.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

Yank2133's back bone is getting exposed. It's not very strong.

[junior chįmp]

Half this country probably didn't even know there was a shut down to begin with

^^^This

This is why all the “OMG which side is gonna get the blame?!?” talk was premature and rather silly. The voting public absolutely will not care about this shutdown.

They won't now. They would if it went on into November and beyond like many people wanted.

And they would have blamed and punished the republicans.

Govt shut down would have had no impact on the midterms....voters are not rational and don't care

[Landslide Lyndon]

Yank2133's back bone is getting exposed. It's not very strong.

As opposed to you who stood up to the menace of Hitlery KKKlinton.

[Blackacre]

Hear me out on this. I think the Dems are going to shut down the government a second time if they don't get DACA in the 3 weeks they gave McConnell. My take is that the Ds are doing this mainly so they can get their message straight for round 2. Over the weekend Dems had conflicting messaging between "this is the GOP Shutdown" and "it's worth a shutdown to get DACA." These two claims contradict one another. In the 3 week interval, they will figure out one unifying message for the next round and go with it, while also holding McConnell to a promise that, if he breaks, will look awful for him.

In short, this isn't an attempt to posture for November. It's an attempt to posture for February while also taking CHIP off the table. This isn't over.

[Yank2133]

Yank2133's back bone is getting exposed. It's not very strong.

Whatever, dude.

I actually want to see something done about the dreamers. I just don't think Democrats shutting the government for eternity is going to get them anywhere.

 

[ProgressiveCanadian]

Yank2133's back bone is getting exposed. It's not very strong.

Whatever, dude.

I actually want to see something done about the dreamers. I just don't think Democrats shutting the government for eternity is going to get them anywhere.

 

If you wanted someone done for the dreamers you could of lasted more than 2 days to do something. Now nothing will happen and Democrats look weak like usual.

[Yank2133]

Yank2133's back bone is getting exposed. It's not very strong.

Whatever, dude.

I actually want to see something done about the dreamers. I just don't think Democrats shutting the government for eternity is going to get them anywhere.

 

If you wanted someone done for the dreamers you could of lasted more than 2 days to do something. Now nothing will happen and Democrats look weak like usual.

What exactly is going to get accomplished by holding out longer?

Like I said, every best case scenario requires the GOP to actually care about governing and the dreamers.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Yank2133's back bone is getting exposed. It's not very strong.

Whatever, dude.

I actually want to see something done about the dreamers. I just don't think Democrats shutting the government for eternity is going to get them anywhere.

 

If you wanted someone done for the dreamers you could of lasted more than 2 days to do something. Now nothing will happen and Democrats look weak like usual.

You and your buddies helped elect Trump. Back then the future of the DREAMers wan not as important as you feeling good and ideologically pure. So please, do everybody a favor: sit down and STFU while other people try to clean up the mess you made.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Hear me out on this. I think the Dems are going to shut down the government a second time if they don't get DACA in the 3 weeks they gave McConnell. My take is that the Ds are doing this mainly so they can get their message straight for round 2. Over the weekend Dems had conflicting messaging between "this is the GOP Shutdown" and "it's worth a shutdown to get DACA." These two claims contradict one another. In the 3 week interval, they will figure out one unifying message for the next round and go with it, while also holding McConnell to a promise that, if he breaks, will look awful for him.

In short, this isn't an attempt to posture for November. It's an attempt to posture for February while also taking CHIP off the table. This isn't over.

Good post

[Unapologetic Chinaperson]

ITT: The leftist circular firing squad