House passes Fiscal 2018 Budget 256-167, Senate 65-32

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Am I the only person here who feels more strongly about DACA than about CHIP?

[Horus]

Am I the only person here who feels more strongly about DACA than about CHIP?

Hopefully.

[Dr. Arch]

Am I the only person here who feels more strongly about DACA than about CHIP?

You're not.

[Person Man]

Alright, here's the question:

Did the Democrats actually lose anything this time?


The funding is only 3 weeks, meaning that they still have the power to threaten shutdown.

You don't think the Dems will shut down the government again, if they get their vote, and lose, or Trump vetoes it, do you?  That would be a political disaster. What the Dems did get, is a focus on this issue, and forcing everybody to take a stand one way or the other, on immigration issues.

Let's consider some outcomes here:

1. McConnell reneges on the promise and there is no vote.  Then D's can force another shutdown in 3 weeks, but this time they would be able to claim that R's negotiated in bad faith, and could refuse to reopen unless there were a more tangible outcome before reopening.  And this would likely have much more public support than if they had refused today's deal.

2. Other end of the spectrum: Senate and House pass some DACA/immigration/border deal, and Trump signs it.   As long as this protects the Dreamers (and if it doesn't, it won't pass the Senate), then D's have accomplished that major goal.  Perhaps they have to make some concessions on the wall or similar, but you have to give something to get something in politics.

3. The vote is held but no deal goes through: it fails in the Senate, or passes the Senate and fails in the House, or passes both and Trump vetoes it.  Then the R's will be on the record as opposing something very popular (protecting the Dreamers), even among their own party.  This isn't going to help them in the midterms, especially if ICE starts deporting them during the coming months.

Yeah, the midterms will be a bloodbath if ICE starts deporting Republicans.

It's called hiding in a airport until someone gives you a place to run away to.

[Doimper]

The Fix guy says the Dems caved, which is about right. They had to. All they can do is ask for a vote. Nothing more. The voters don't like shutting down the government to try to gain leverage not otherwise in a party's hands.

What will be interesting is how the Dems deal with chain migration, visa lotteries, and in general, a move towards a more merit based system of immigration. I suspect this Pub initiative is fairly popular.

Weird to hear red avatars talking about "chain migration" as though it's an actual issue that requires a solution.

[Landslide Lyndon]

The Fix guy says the Dems caved, which is about right. They had to. All they can do is ask for a vote. Nothing more. The voters don't like shutting down the government to try to gain leverage not otherwise in a party's hands.

What will be interesting is how the Dems deal with chain migration, visa lotteries, and in general, a move towards a more merit based system of immigration. I suspect this Pub initiative is fairly popular.

Weird to hear red avatars talking about "chain migration" as though it's an actual issue that requires a solution.

Torie is a Republican.

[The Dowager Mod]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

[Sestak]

Zeke Miller
@ZekeJMiller
Happening now at WH per @PressSec: Sens Manchin and Jones meeting with POTUS on path forward + immigration

[Chief Justice Keef]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

[Yank2133]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

[IceSpear]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

If Democrats want to drive policy, perhaps they should try winning elections. I'm pretty sure we were all saying that same thing to Cruz and his ilk back in 2013. Though at least they legitimately won one chamber of Congress.

This was a stupid idea from the start since there was no way to win. It was all posturing from the 2020 contenders and they dragged the rest of the caucus with them on their joyride.

[IndustrialJustice]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

[Yank2133]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

Yes, and the chances are irrelevant. If it takes a year or two for DACA to pass congress, then the government should be shut down for a year or two.

[Holmes]

Am I the only person here who feels more strongly about DACA than about CHIP?

I don't think It's an either/or situation.

[IndustrialJustice]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequences for the ruling party almost a year from now.

[IceSpear]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

Yes, and the chances are irrelevant. If it takes a year or two for DACA to pass congress, then the government should be shut down for a year or two.

And then the Democrats get wiped off the face of the map in 2018, millions of children lose their healthcare, hundreds of thousands of government workers get sent to the unemployment line, etc. But I guess Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand, Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, etc. don't care about that, as long as they get a small chance of being president out of the deal.

[Yank2133]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequence for the ruling party.

How would that be a sellout?

They can't force the Republicans to do anything. It is funny how the left complains about Democrats falling for the GOP's schtick over again and yet they fall for it themselves by believing the GOP can actually be reasoned with.

[IceSpear]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequence for the ruling party.

They'll love it as much as countless parents love losing healthcare for their children, countless government employees love losing their jobs, military members/families love not getting paid, and the American public in general loves wasting billions of dollars for political posturing.

Does anybody actually have a realistic endgame for Democrats in the "keep government shut down indefinitely" scenario so many of you are begging for?

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

Yes, and the chances are irrelevant. If it takes a year or two for DACA to pass congress, then the government should be shut down for a year or two.

And then the Democrats get wiped off the face of the map in 2018, millions of children lose their healthcare, hundreds of thousands of government workers get sent to the unemployment line, etc. But I guess Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand, Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, etc. don't care about that, as long as they get a small chance of being president out of the deal.

And I'm supposed to care about whether people who are willing to work for the administration end up in the unemployment line? And reopening the government is to give up on DACA. And, no, we can't go back to this after 2020, because by then all dreamers will have been deported, making such legislation utterly pointless.

[Yank2133]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequence for the ruling party.

They'll love it as much as countless parents love losing healthcare for their children, countless government employees love losing their jobs, military members/families love not getting paid, and the American public in general loves wasting billions of dollars for political posturing.

Does anybody actually have a realistic endgame for Democrats in the "keep government shut down indefinitely" scenario so many of you are begging for?

Their best case scenario basically comes down to the GOP actually caring about governing.

[JGibson]

BREAKING: The Senate has voted 81-18 to fund the government through 02.08.2018 to the House to get one step closer to ending the Trump/GOP-caused shutdown. 

[Hydera]

It's so cute how the Dems expect McConnell to be honorable and keep his word.

They don't.

The goal is to get the GOP to admit their true position concerning the dreamers. Republicans have been hiding their true intentions on everything the past year (from healthcare, taxes, and now the dreamers), because what they want to do isn't popular and they know it.

This is why getting CHIP off the table was significant. Republicans can't hide behind it anymore. They are either for protecting the dreamers or they aren't. Either way, they are going to have to live with their decision.

They’ll kill DACA and go to bed that night with smiles on their faces. Schumer will be left standing and pointing at McConnell, waiting for the Fault Judge to show up and declare once and for all that this situation is officially the GOP’s fault.

And then...

Deporting dreamers is unpopular and the GOP knows this, which is why they have been talking out of both sides of their mouths for months.

The ads that will come from this are going to be brutal. The ACA activist did a number on Republicans and the Dreamers and their supporters are much better organized.

Then the Latino base of your party will be thrilled to know you sold out their family, friends, and neighbors for some juicy attack ads that may or may not result in negative consequence for the ruling party.

They'll love it as much as countless parents love losing healthcare for their children, countless government employees love losing their jobs, military members/families love not getting paid, and the American public in general loves wasting billions of dollars for political posturing.

Does anybody actually have a realistic endgame for Democrats in the "keep government shut down indefinitely" scenario so many of you are begging for?

Republicans could either use nuclear option OR if the shutdown goes on even up to election day then dems lose so many senate seats once public perception makes the GCB go from towards democrat to towards republicans.

[IceSpear]

McConnell will inevitably spike DACA in a few weeks, Schumer and the Democrats will complain about the GOP being hypocrites, and literally nobody will care.

Schumer blew it, he's Charlie Brown and McConnell is Lucy holding the football.

Uh, what else are they supposed to do? Keep the government shut down forever until Trump of all people, the manchild buffoon obsessed with "winning" that he is, decides to unilaterally disarm and do whatever they want? Yeah, the chances of that happening are so high.

Yes, and the chances are irrelevant. If it takes a year or two for DACA to pass congress, then the government should be shut down for a year or two.

And then the Democrats get wiped off the face of the map in 2018, millions of children lose their healthcare, hundreds of thousands of government workers get sent to the unemployment line, etc. But I guess Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand, Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, etc. don't care about that, as long as they get a small chance of being president out of the deal.

And I'm supposed to care about whether people who are willing to work for the administration end up in the unemployment line? And reopening the government is to give up on DACA. And, no, we can't go back to this after 2020, because by then all dreamers will have been deported, making such legislation utterly pointless.

Lol, nice trolling. As if people who work for the CDC, EPA, or national parks are Trump henchmen.

Unfortunately for us, Trump's cabinet members and the rest of his cronies are deemed essential employees.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Final Passage vote passes Senate 81-18, No change from CLOTURE VOTE. The Democratic Caving effort goes to the house now.