UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem

[The Free North]

The UK is making a fantastic case for authoritarianism.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why the hell did the Parliament vote no

[AndyHogan14]

Tonight's statements from leading EU figures like Donald Tusk or Manfred Weber indicate that they need to see an actual reason and purpose for extending Article 50. What does the UK want to do with an extension, specifically? Holding a snap election? Or a organizing a second referendum? At the same time, the EU has made clear that it doesn't consider wanting to renegotiate the deal another time as a legitimate reason.

They don't need a legitimate reason to revoke Article 50 (which they can do unilaterally) and that, in essence, could act as a two year delay if they reinstate Article 50 shortly thereafter.

[brucejoel99]

Ugh. This is going to mean an extension of A50 and possibly a second referendum or a GE. May is betraying Brexit. It needs to be a no-deal now.

May didn't betray Brexit. The people who promised the impossible did.

[Beet]

Ugh. This is going to mean an extension of A50 and possibly a second referendum or a GE. May is betraying Brexit. It needs to be a no-deal now.

[Pericles]

Ugh. This is going to mean an extension of A50 and possibly a second referendum or a GE. May is betraying Brexit. It needs to be a no-deal now.

May's deal would have meant Brexit on March 29. If Brexit ends up softened or cancelled, the ERG's intransigence could end up as one of the biggest own goals in history.

[Gass3268]

It's time to just cancel Brexit.

[Antonio the Sixth]

People didn't vote for a no-deal Brexit. The idea that the referendum would have succeeded if the plan was "let's just crash out" is laughable.

This deal, and Labour's initial proposal of staying in the customs union, are both reasonable options perfectly consonant with the mandate received from the voters in 2016. Leaving without a deal or not leaving at all are shameless demagoguery.

[brucejoel99]

Ugh. This is going to mean an extension of A50 and possibly a second referendum or a GE. May is betraying Brexit. It needs to be a no-deal now.

Again...

May didn't betray Brexit. The people who promised the impossible did.

Also, this...

Ugh. This is going to mean an extension of A50 and possibly a second referendum or a GE. May is betraying Brexit. It needs to be a no-deal now.

May's deal would have meant Brexit on March 29. If Brexit ends up softened or cancelled, the ERG's intransigence could end up as one of the biggest own goals in history.

& this...

It's time to just cancel Brexit.

[Suburbia]

May needs to resign

Boris, Rees-Mogg or someone else can deal with this.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/the-next-tory-leader-runners-and-riders/

[brucejoel99]

May needs to resign

Boris, Rees-Mogg or someone else can deal with this.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/the-next-tory-leader-runners-and-riders/

LMAO what? Literally no one respects Boris Johnson; he's a joke & an idiot, & Rees-Mogg is from 1885. No one's successfully filling that leadership vacuum anytime soon.

[BlueSwan]

People didn't vote for a no-deal Brexit. The idea that the referendum would have succeeded if the plan was "let's just crash out" is laughable.

This deal, and Labour's initial proposal of staying in the customs union, are both reasonable options perfectly consonant with the mandate received from the voters in 2016. Leaving without a deal or not leaving at all are shameless demagoguery.

True.

But at this point, I think a second referendum is in order given that it is completely up in the air what the UK public infact prefers when real options are on the table and not some fantasy idea of how the UK can have all the benefits of EU membership and none of the costs.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Tonight's statements from leading EU figures like Donald Tusk or Manfred Weber indicate that they need to see an actual reason and purpose for extending Article 50. What does the UK want to do with an extension, specifically? Holding a snap election? Or a organizing a second referendum? At the same time, the EU has made clear that it doesn't consider wanting to renegotiate the deal another time as a legitimate reason.

They don't need a legitimate reason to revoke Article 50 (which they can do unilaterally) and that, in essence, could act as a two year delay if they reinstate Article 50 shortly thereafter.

On paper that's possible, but in reality it wouldn't be politically feasible right now.

[DavidB.]

People didn't vote for a no-deal Brexit. The idea that the referendum would have succeeded if the plan was "let's just crash out" is laughable.

This deal, and Labour's initial proposal of staying in the customs union, are both reasonable options perfectly consonant with the mandate received from the voters in 2016.

I fully agree. But if that's not on the table anymore and the choice is between a no-deal Brexit or staying in the EU, it has to be the first option.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Polling numbers:


41% say that parliament was right in rejecting the deal last night, while 33% say the decision was wrong.

50% say Theresay May should resign, 32% say she should stay on as PM.

42% support calling a general election, while 38% oppose to it.

47% say parliament should rule out a no-deal Brexit, while 35% want MPs to vote in favour of leaving the EU without a deal.

44% support extending Article 50, with 39% being opposed it.

Asked what Theresa May should do now, 29% support a second referendum, 25% support a no-deal Brexit, and 35% support some form of negotiated deal.


https://www.politico.eu/article/poll-half-of-uk-voters-want-theresa-may-to-resign/


With that last question they should have just asked whether they support a second referendum or a no-deal Brexit IMO. There won't be a negotiated deal other than the one which was already negotiated and whose rejection is supported by a plurality of respondents in that poll. Asking them whether they'd prefer some form of negotiated deal now is like asking them whether they'd like to spend their next vacation on the planet Mars.

[IceAgeComing]

So shockingly Cabinet seems to be divided about this evenings vote.  The original plan was for the government to whip against any amendments and then allow a free vote on the overall motion (saying that No Deal was the default option and that we'll leave come what may basically) with Cabinet ministers being allowed to vote however they want.  The issue is that one of the amendments is the stupid Malthouse Compromise thing (which is basically the millionth 'serious' attempt by Tory MPs to get the withdrawal agreement through without the backstop; the EU has said that it isn't something that they support or would even consider a million times since it was first proposed a few months ago) and pro-Brexit Tory MPs want a free vote on that with some threatening to resign - including the Minister who its named after.  The problem is that if you allow a free vote on that then you sort of also have to allow a free vote on the other amendment which is an outright rejection of No Deal in order to prevent splits from the other side of the Tory Party.

The thing with an extension is that it requires the support of EU member states and the language from the Parliament plenary this morning very much suggests that they've hardened significantly in recent weeks: the talk is now very much that they'll say no unless there's a strong plan on what the next step would be and "more talking" would not cut it.  The UK could always revoke Article 50 but the government won't do that unless parliament sort of forces them to...

[Silent Hunter]

There will be a lot of diplomacy between Thursday and the EU summit on 21/22 March. The RAF had better keep their BAe 146 CC2s on standby.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

At this point I see only two possible outcomes: the UK leaves the EU with no deal on March 29 or the UK revokes Article 50, resetting Brexit for a minimum of two years as it reconsiders its options. The mess in Parliament pretty much ensures they can't provide a coherent plan that would get all of the other EU states to agree to a stay of a few months.

[jaichind]

U.K. Parliament Votes to Reject No-Deal Brexit

Parliament votes 312 to 308 in favor of so-called Spelman amendment, which rejects a no-deal Brexit in clearer terms than Prime Minister Theresa May’s own motion which represents a loss for the PM.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

I'm so annoyed and tired of all of this. The UK should leave the EU on March 29th and that should be FINAL.

The UK government is a mess and Brexit was a terrible decision in the first place. As much as a no deal Brexit would be terrible, it's what should happen at this point. When you make the average citizen vote on something so significant and have a lot of lies and misleading information being spread around this is unfortunately what happens and the UK has to deal with consequences of that.

As such, no deal Brexit is the only option right now. The EU will probably not extend the deadline for Article 50.

[jaichind]

I assume all these votes to prevent No Deal Brexit be it the Spelman amendment or May's version really depends on EU unanimously agreed to push the deadline out.  Will they do that? If so how far will they push it out? If it is just a couple of months then it is just kicking the can down the road for the same crisis to drag on until a couple of months from now right ?

[parochial boy]

The Conservative party appears to be having some sort of a mental breakdown...

[Dereich]

U.K. Parliament Votes to Reject No-Deal Brexit

Parliament votes 312 to 308 in favor of so-called Spelman amendment, which rejects a no-deal Brexit in clearer terms than Prime Minister Theresa May’s own motion which represents a loss for the PM.

Parliament only voted to adopt the amendment over the government's version by 4 votes. The actual vote on the motion was 321-278 in favor of rejecting no deal.

[jaichind]

May correctly points out that legal default remains no deal exit unless a deal is agreed with EU and passed in UK parliament and that a second referendum is an option.

[Gass3268]

I'm so annoyed and tired of all of this. The UK should leave the EU on March 29th and that should be FINAL.

The UK government is a mess and Brexit was a terrible decision in the first place. As much as a no deal Brexit would be terrible, it's what should happen at this point. When you make the average citizen vote on something so significant and have a lot of lies and misleading information being spread around this is unfortunately what happens and the UK has to deal with consequences of that.

As such, no deal Brexit is the only option right now. The EU will probably not extend the deadline for Article 50.

The UK should just say lol jk and tell the EU they want back in. The populace obviously had no clue what they were voting for.