Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?

[ApatheticAustrian]

i don't see the problem.

either an election is an election - even if it's an interal one - or a coronation.

if you have wished for a coronation, i understand the outrage, otherwise this is business as usual and republicans think of perez as some kind of stalinist.

[Devout Centrist]

This quote from Matt Bruenig sums it up:



It's a club, and you're not invited in it. The Democratic Party cannot, will not, and most importantly does not know how to save you.

Gee that sounds a lot like what happened in the primary, but reversed.

[Shadows]

And the worst thing is they put Perez only to stop Ellison. He was not a bad candidate. Also Perez's shady dirty campaign while occupying an official WH position was deeply disturbing.

He was the one who asked Podesta to cast Bernie as a white only candidate who can't connect with minorities ! He sounded stupid, clueless & evaded every important question.

I am hoping Perez will be replaced in 2018!

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Can't y'all save the outrage for things that actually matter instead of seeing insults in which far-left candidate was chosen for DNC chair?

Factional struggle within the party matters. Full stop. And you only think it doesn't because you identify with the faction in power, and want to tamp down conflict.

You seem more interested in fighting democrats you don't like then fighting donald. Ellison was made vice-chair purely as a gesture towards your people. A minority faction within the party is not entitled to everything. You were the ones who tried to turn this random party position into a proxy war. Not us. The party is made up of many groups that aren't you that don't have enough of a voice. Some of these groups I identify with. Those of us who really care about issues of racial and gender inequality enough to identify with the feminist movement, Black Lives Matter, etc aren't whining about not getting the DNC chair go to our special candidate, (we'd be fine with Ellison) and we didn't get the slightest hint of any pandering. We got a hell of a lot less then you, and we're happily marching along. It would be cool to be the faction in control, but we aren't going to start acting like babies when the establishment assigns one of its own to a strategizing and fundraising position.

why do you assume that the Prog wing is distinct from BLM and feminism?

Probably because white male David Brock successfully projected his racism and sexism onto Bernie supporters.

More because of all the whining about muh identity politics.

Aaand they just struck down a ban on corporate lobbyists. Where was the DNC saviour Perez? Ellison was one of its storngest supporters. Were was The Great Saviour Perez?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/dnc-pac-contributions-ban_us_58b1ac9ee4b0a8a9b782bb00

Bu-but omegascarlet said Ellison and Perez were both far-left!

To be absolutely clear, Perez was not a big cheerleader for the ban. I'll give him credit here; mostly he seems lukewarm on lobbyists, at least a lot less cozy with them than some, but he even neglected to say that.

Certainly doesn't help the optics of the situation, particularly when the favourite among the Sanders wing was the ban's biggest supporter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/weekinreview/24kirkpatrick.html

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I don't think opposing corporate donations that don't actually buy any votes is a good litmus test for leftism. And refusing to take any donations puts you at a strong disadvantage compared to the republicans, esp considering that if donalds white house romp goes badly enough, democrats will probably get a flood of free "not trump" money.

[Antonio the Sixth]

This quote from Matt Bruenig sums it up:



It's a club, and you're not invited in it. The Democratic Party cannot, will not, and most importantly does not know how to save you.

Exactly. The Establishment has declared war and it's time the base responds in kind.

[ApatheticAustrian]

we "are" at war, there is a debate about counter-attacking.

[Chief Justice Keef]

This quote from Matt Bruenig sums it up:



It's a club, and you're not invited in it. The Democratic Party cannot, will not, and most importantly does not know how to save you.

Exactly. The Establishment has declared war and it's time the base responds in kind.

Bernie Sanders and his half of the party dont play to win. Bernie Sanders should of threatened the DNC if they didn't pick Keith. This is why the Tea Party and Trump won...they play hard and dirty

That's the problem. I think Bernie is too tolerant of some of the nasty absolute ghouls who control the Democratic Party, and I wish he'd really unpack on them for once for all the s--t they give him

[ApatheticAustrian]

bernie is in it to win it, others prefer to make it about themselves.

[Chief Justice Keef]

bernie is in it to win it, others prefer to make it about themselves.

The latter's truer of the establishment than any Berniecrat I've seen.

They see Ellison getting support from establishment and left-wing figures, push Tom Perez into the race, and after Ellison is displaced they demand unity.

[ApatheticAustrian]

bernie is in it to win it, others prefer to make it about themselves.

The latter's truer of the establishment than any Berniecrat I've seen.

They see Ellison getting support from establishment and left-wing figures, push Tom Perez into the race, and after Ellison is displaced they demand unity.

there is going to be "unity" anyway.

unity doesn't mean saying yes to everything and shut up - it means knowing, that whatever are your grievances with other factions inside your party or movement, they are dwarfed by the challenge to your goals, your ideas, your worldviews and your ideals that is the trump administration.

[Frodo]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

[ApatheticAustrian]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

radical ideologues and people who are paid to give a shoot.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

[Lief 🗽]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

[Chief Justice Keef]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

Haha get the f outta here with that crap

If Tom Perez really was a strong progressive why did he run against Leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison?

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

[Lief 🗽]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

Haha get the f outta here with that crap

If Tom Perez really was a strong progressive why did he run against Leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison?

Uh, because he thought he'd do a better job? It's an election dude. Sorry Ellison didn't get his coronation just because he was the first to announce.

You need to drop your absurd manichean view of the world where every election is a HEROIC PROGRESSIVE vs. an EVIL ESTABLISHMENT SHILL.

[Frodo]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

Haha get the f outta here with that crap

If Tom Perez really was a strong progressive why did he run against Leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison?

Perhaps he was concerned that Keith Ellison being a Muslim might adversely impact the party's ability to reach out to voters.  Not everything needs to be seen through the context of a conspiracy.

[Lief 🗽]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

Haha get the f outta here with that crap

If Tom Perez really was a strong progressive why did he run against Leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison?

Uh, because he thought he'd do a better job? It's an election dude. Sorry Ellison didn't get his coronation just because he was the first to announce.

You need to drop your absurd manichean view of the world where every election is a HEROIC PROGRESSIVE vs. an EVIL ESTABLISHMENT SHILL.

He was run against Ellison because President Obama didn't want Ellison in. Full stop.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

I mean, there was a Presidential primary where his chosen successor only drew 55% of the popular vote. AFTER she was established to be the inevitable winner.

[Blackacre]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

Haha get the f outta here with that crap

If Tom Perez really was a strong progressive why did he run against Leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison?

Uh, because he thought he'd do a better job? It's an election dude. Sorry Ellison didn't get his coronation just because he was the first to announce.

You need to drop your absurd manichean view of the world where every election is a HEROIC PROGRESSIVE vs. an EVIL ESTABLISHMENT SHILL.

It's possible that a chief concern Perez and co had was that Ellison had no experience running a bureaucracy, which Perez did in the Labour dept and which is needed to run the dnc.

[Lief 🗽]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

I mean, there was a Presidential primary where his chosen successor only drew 55% of the popular vote. AFTER she was established to be the inevitable winner.

You're delusional if you think a significant portion of Sanders supporters supported him because they didn't like Barack Obama. And of those who did, most were right-wing fake Democrats in the South and Appalachia.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

I mean, there was a Presidential primary where his chosen successor only drew 55% of the popular vote. AFTER she was established to be the inevitable winner.

You're delusional if you think a significant portion of Sanders supporters supported him because they didn't like Barack Obama. And of those who did, most were right-wing fake Democrats in the South and Appalachia.

I'm talking about the population of activists that staff campaigns, bro. There was enough dissatisfaction with the Obama legacy that Sanders was able to draw a large staff of young progressives that wanted to change the party.

Also, just gonna contest that "President Obama is the most popular Democratic Politician. Fullstop" assertion you made there.

[Lief 🗽]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

I mean, there was a Presidential primary where his chosen successor only drew 55% of the popular vote. AFTER she was established to be the inevitable winner.

You're delusional if you think a significant portion of Sanders supporters supported him because they didn't like Barack Obama. And of those who did, most were right-wing fake Democrats in the South and Appalachia.

I'm talking about the population of activists that staff campaigns, bro.

No? You were talking about the primary electorate...