Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?

[7,052,770]

It's only the DNC chair. Not the f-cking candidate for President.

Yep, and the chair is bound to support all Democratic nominees, no matter what.

If Berniecrats get off their ass and get Berniecrats nominated in all 435 House seats in 2018, then Perez will strongly support all 435 of them. If all 435 seats nominated Blue Dogs, the DNC chairman, even if it was Bernie himself, would support all 435 of them. If we nominate 435 conspiracist raving lunatics, the DNC chairman will undyingly support all 435 of them.

It's a hack-in-chief for the party and whoever the party nominates, in addition to being a glorified fundraiser.

Perez will rig things against progressives like the Obama/Clinton wing always does. He even told the Hillary campaign to use race baiting against the progressives.

LOL. And vaccines are bad, global warming is fake, and the government did 9/11.

Huh, that's documented.

It's "documented" that the "Obama/Clinton wing" "always" rigs elections? Ok...

[scutosaurus]

He seems decent, and he can't possibly be worse than what we've dealt with recently. Given that he's the most progressive labor secretary in the history of the country, I can't complain too much on a political level. On an organizing level, which is of course the only that actually matters- I guess I'll have to wait and see.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

Howso? Because individual party members don't get to vote?

That's because the DNC Chair is not the head of the party and is not equivalent to party leader in a Parliamentary system. They are Exactly What It Says On The Tin, Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Of course only Democratic National Committee members get to vote on it. This is like complaining that individual party members don't get to vote on the heads of the Democratic House or Senate caucus.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Anyway Option 2.

I supported Ellison. I'm obviously biased but I would've anyway. But Perez is sooooooooooo much better than DWS it's impossible to not be a little bit happy.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Darn it all to heck. Darn all of it to heck.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

That and Perez were definitely correlated. Although Ellison was behind over backwards too much, and backed away from his pledge to ban corporate money. And he still lost.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime, so maybe cool it a little?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime.

Yeah, it's hilarious that someone triggered by the fact that there's a Russian Art Musuem is lecturing us on giving a sh**t about who is DNC chair after how terrible Obama's other picks were.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime, so maybe cool it a little?

I support Ellison and am OK with Perez. I don't think he's a monster and he's infinitely better than DWS. I do not see how I was given the middle finger. I doubt even Ellison feels that way. So yes I will call out Antonio for acting like such a moron in regards to a party he's not even a member of or eligible to vote for.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime.

Yeah, it's hilarious that someone triggered by the fact that there's a Russian Art Musuem is lecturing us on giving a sh**t about who is DNC chair after how terrible Obama's other picks were.

Also hilarious how someone who thinks Ohio was stolen in 2004 and that the DNC primary was stolen thinks Putin never rigs elections or had any attempts to influence this one.

[Ronnie]

One of the amendment's problems was that it did not clearly define what a "corporation" was.  I'm not sure whether that factor alone allowed the motion striking the amendment banning corporate cash to pass, but someone in the audience asked whether labor unions counted, and Donna Brazile could not answer because she did not know.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime.

Yeah, it's hilarious that someone triggered by the fact that there's a Russian Art Musuem is lecturing us on giving a sh**t about who is DNC chair after how terrible Obama's other picks were.

Also hilarious how someone who thinks Ohio was stolen in 2004 and that the DNC primary was stolen thinks Putin never rigs elections or had any attempts to influence this one.

Wikileaks releasing DKIM verified e-mails that were leaked isn't Russia rigging the election.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And neither is a debate schedule or New York having voter registration laws that the DNC has no control over.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime, so maybe cool it a little?

I support Ellison and am OK with Perez. I don't think he's a monster and he's infinitely better than DWS. I do not see how I was given the middle finger. I doubt even Ellison feels that way. So yes I will call out Antonio for acting like such a moron in regards to a party he's not even a member of or eligible to vote for.

I'm an eligible D and I believe the same thing.

I'm glad you supported Ellison. Who did you support in the Democratic primary? Do you align yourself with people who believe that the Democratic Party is elitist and does not represent them or their beliefs? Were you disappointed by President Obama's administration?

If you don't share our priorities, you're not one of us. You show little interest (much like your compatriots in the DNC apparently) in understanding the perspective and ideology of different factions within the party. You believe that the Democratic party's problems are mechanical, not ideological. You don't understand what we're talking about if you call our concerns childish.

You freak out at plenty of things that are absolutely bonkers. You are in no position to criticize Antonio, (especially because he's in the right).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime, so maybe cool it a little?

I support Ellison and am OK with Perez. I don't think he's a monster and he's infinitely better than DWS. I do not see how I was given the middle finger. I doubt even Ellison feels that way. So yes I will call out Antonio for acting like such a moron in regards to a party he's not even a member of or eligible to vote for.

I'm an eligible D and I believe the same thing.

I'm glad you supported Ellison. Who did you support in the Democratic primary?

Sanders.

Do you align yourself with people who believe that the Democratic Party is elitist and does not represent them or their beliefs? Were you disappointed by President Obama's administration?

No to both.

If you don't share our priorities, you're not one of us. You show little interest (much like your compatriots in the DNC apparently) in understanding the perspective and ideology of different factions within the party.

Actually I'm willing to wager most Democrats don't feel that way. And the second sentence is not at all true, and actually if you knew anything about my work here you'd know how comical and ridiculous that is. However it's pretty absurd to say that Perez doesn't understand that either, or even that his position is all that important in regards to that.

You believe that the Democratic party's problems are mechanical, not ideological. You don't understand what we're talking about if you call our concerns childish.

The problems are both. The DNC chair's job though is to fix the mechanical ones. The DNC chair has little influence over policy. And frankly even if that was a big part of the job I'd be fine with Perez because he is no centrist shill either and claiming he is is absurd.

You freak out at plenty of things that are absolutely bonkers. You are in no position to criticize Antonio, (especially because he's in the right).

So it's right to have a meltdown of epic proportions over the most progressive DNC Chair since probably Paul Kirk or someone just got selected because he beat your preferred candidate who is still being given a position of influence? And speaking as someone who has met Ellison himself on multiple occasions, I can assure you he would not approve.

[JustinTimeCuber]

I would have preferred vice-versa, but it could be worse.

Just sayin': Perez supports TPP. He's against lobbyist ban rule for the DNC. He was a leading smearer of Bernie Sanders during the primaries. Agree to disagree

e: Obviously you don't watch Secular Talk

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

I'm just glad that hag DWS is out.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You know who opposes TPP? Take a look above your post.

Yeah I know that's a guilt by association fallacy (FYI I don't support TPP either), but it's relevant in another factor: TPP is quite obviously very much dead. And it's not like the DNC Chair has much influence as to its passage anyway, whipping votes in Congress is not one of his duties.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Do you align yourself with people who believe that the Democratic Party is elitist and does not represent them or their beliefs? Were you disappointed by President Obama's administration?

No to both.

Aye and there's the rub, I suspect.

If you don't share our priorities, you're not one of us. You show little interest (much like your compatriots in the DNC apparently) in understanding the perspective and ideology of different factions within the party.

Actually I'm willing to wager most Democrats don't feel that way. And the second sentence is not at all true, and actually if you knew anything about my work here you'd know how comical and ridiculous that is. However it's pretty absurd to say that Perez doesn't understand that either, or even that his position is all that important in regards to that.

Of currently registered Democrats? Sure. Based on past results I'd bet it's about 60-40 in favor of feeling represented. But those aren't the goalposts we should use. Include the left leaning Is (that the Party has hemhorraged over the past 2 years) to make up our electoral coalition every cycle? I bet it's *at least* reversed.

As for this not reflecting your work, I think all of us that have done political work who are on this forum on this forum are very glad that we don't have to act up to our professional standards while posting. The way you act on this forum reflects very little interest in party unity or understanding the ideological breakdown of the party. You might do it in your day job, but you don't do it here.

The problems are both. The DNC chair's job though is to fix the mechanical ones. The DNC chair has little influence over policy. And frankly even if that was a big part of the job I'd be fine with Perez because he is no centrist shill either and claiming he is is absurd.

It's factional. The Bernie wing had a candidate, and Perez was put up by the forces of stasis. He will be a force for stasis in the position because that was his electoral coalition.

So it's right to have a meltdown of epic proportions over the most progressive DNC Chair since probably Paul Kirk or someone just got selected because he beat your preferred candidate who is still being given a position of influence? And speaking as someone who has met Ellison himself on multiple occasions, I can assure you he would not approve.

He's not having a meltdown of epic proportions. Perez might be personally progressive, but he's at most in sync with 2012, not 2016. And as you correctly point out, the DNC is mechanical. And he will favor the regressive forces in the party, even if he believes in progressive policy.

Ellison is in a very different position than any of us are, and if he would approve he certainly wouldn't express it to any of us.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Do you align yourself with people who believe that the Democratic Party is elitist and does not represent them or their beliefs? Were you disappointed by President Obama's administration?

No to both.

Aye and there's the rub, I suspect.

If you don't share our priorities, you're not one of us. You show little interest (much like your compatriots in the DNC apparently) in understanding the perspective and ideology of different factions within the party.

Actually I'm willing to wager most Democrats don't feel that way. And the second sentence is not at all true, and actually if you knew anything about my work here you'd know how comical and ridiculous that is. However it's pretty absurd to say that Perez doesn't understand that either, or even that his position is all that important in regards to that.

Of currently registered Democrats? Sure. Based on past results I'd bet it's about 60-40 in favor of feeling represented. But those aren't the goalposts we should use. Include the left leaning Is (that the Party has hemhorraged over the past 2 years) to make up our electoral coalition every cycle? I bet it's *at least* reversed.

Then you should be working on recruiting progressive candidates downballot, not focusing so much on a position who's primary roles are hosting fundraisers and doing quick 5 minute interviews on news networks.

As for this not reflecting your work, I think all of us that have done political work who are on this forum on this forum are very glad that we don't have to act up to our professional standards while posting. The way you act on this forum reflects very little interest in party unity or understanding the ideological breakdown of the party. You might do it in your day job, but you don't do it here.

Oh my God. Please read jfern's posting history and then tell me he has ANY interest whatsoever in party unity. Like seriously. ROFL.

The problems are both. The DNC chair's job though is to fix the mechanical ones. The DNC chair has little influence over policy. And frankly even if that was a big part of the job I'd be fine with Perez because he is no centrist shill either and claiming he is is absurd.

It's factional. The Bernie wing had a candidate, and Perez was put up by the forces of stasis. He will be a force for stasis in the position because that was his electoral coalition.

Well good thing his position has little do with "the force of stasis" then.

So it's right to have a meltdown of epic proportions over the most progressive DNC Chair since probably Paul Kirk or someone just got selected because he beat your preferred candidate who is still being given a position of influence? And speaking as someone who has met Ellison himself on multiple occasions, I can assure you he would not approve.

He's not having a meltdown of epic proportions. Perez might be personally progressive, but he's at most in sync with 2012, not 2016. And as you correctly point out, the DNC is mechanical. And he will favor the regressive forces in the party, even if he believes in progressive policy.

This is the biggest meltdown I've ever seen Tony have. And you seem to be basically even admitting the DNC chair has very little to do with actual policy. Feeling upset? Go grassroots, take over local parties, committees, recruit progressive candidates for Congress and take over state parties. Like I helped do last year boosting the Bernie wing of the DFL. Get over the DNC Chair, a position that's effectively equivalent to the role of the king/queen in a constitutional monarchy.

Ellison is in a very different position than any of us are, and if he would approve he certainly wouldn't express it to any of us.

He sure wouldn't express it in this level of childish absurdity, I can assure you that.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Oh my God. Please read jfern's posting history and then tell me he has ANY interest whatsoever in party unity. Like seriously. ROFL.

Jfern is Jfern, Antonio is Antonio. I'm defending the latter, not the former.

But my point here was that you don't behave like a compassionate party operative when you talk about intra-party politics on this board. You just don't.

Well good thing his position has little do with "the force of stasis" then...and you seem to be basically even admitting the DNC chair has very little to do with actual policy.

Uhhh, he's gonna have final say on a BUNCH of where the money goes next cycle. He's gonna have a lot of agency in where the money comes from. And with Perez in way too much of it is going to come from the same DC lobbyists and go to the same DC communications consulting firms as it always has. He's gonna be an influential force in recruiting candidates (yes I know that DCCC, DGA, DSCC, DAGA, DLCC, etc have a bigger role in this. But DNC chair DOES have a role).

Maybe he won't be writing the platform. But DNC chair is a key piece of the puzzle in what resources the party develops, where, and when. And those ALL have ideological components.

He sure wouldn't express it in this level of childish absurdity, I can assure you that.

That is because he is an elected official and we are posters on the internet. Amazingly, different rules of personal expression apply. If I were a congressman and the new Deputy DNC Chair, I would be publicly gracious and courteous.

[pasted all these together]
 Then you should be working on recruiting progressive candidates downballot, not focusing so much on a position who's primary roles are hosting fundraisers and doing quick 5 minute interviews on news networks...Go grassroots, take over local parties, committees, recruit progressive candidates for Congress and take over state parties. Like I helped do last year boosting the Bernie wing of the DFL. Get over the DNC Chair, a position that's effectively equivalent to the role of the king/queen in a constitutional monarchy...

These are not mutually exclusive. At all. You can take over the party and be salty about this at the same time. Indeed, I've mostly seen people become MORE determined to take over the party after this, not less.

Not to tip my hand too much, but I took a year off college to staff Bernie in 6 states. I'm trying to work in NE this summer to build the party. I went to freaking IN to knock doors for GOTV. Whenever I get out of this machine city (Chicago) and stop being a full time student, my first stop is at my local Dems monthly meeting. I have every intention to give my all to bring the Bernie wing to ascendancy in the Democratic Party, to and build a Democratic party that can run the country.

I'm still pissed off at this, and it's still a slap in the face from an ungrateful and out of touch establishment.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Can't y'all save the outrage for things that actually matter instead of seeing insults in which far-left candidate was chosen for DNC chair?