The Case for Kasich as POTUS

[Slander and/or Libel]

I think you're vastly overestimating the average voter's understanding of and acceptance of the byzantine rules of the nominating process, that's all.

[PeteB]

If anything I am underestimating them. The average voter will just know who the chosen nominee is. If he is the nominee that the majority of voters already feel  is best to defeat Clinton, so much the better.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Again, asserted with absolutely no backup. It feels to me as though a claim like, "Voters will flock to whoever the nominee is even if he's somebody they roundly rejected in the primaries!" requires a bit of evidence.

[PeteB]

Sigh...we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Time will tell.....

[PeteB]

The Bloomberg national poll just came out, showing 1 on 1 matchups:

Clinton 54% Trump 36% (Clinton + 8%)
Clinton 51% Cruz 42% (Clinton + 18%)
Kasich 47% Clinton 43% (Kasich + 4%)

This is now the sixth national poll showing Cruz being destroyed by Clinton while Trump gets totally obliterated, in a head to head matchup. And in every single one of them Kasich beats Hillary (and Bernie).  Six separate independent polls cannot be all wrong. Having Cruz lose by 8% rather than Trump lose by 18% does NOT make the loss any more acceptable to the GOP.

And yet the biggest problem for the GOP establishment is apparently the fact that Kasich does not want to leave the race and leave Trump and Cruz as the only options? Yep, that sure makes a whole lot of sense.

O tempora o mores!

[Slander and/or Libel]

Nobody said that's the biggest problem for the GOP. People are arguing that the GOP base would likely not blithely sit by as someone who currently has fewer delegates than a confirmed loser like Marco Rubio gets handed the nomination.

[PeteB]

On Atlas perhaps, but in the media there is a concerted almost panicky effort to get Kasich to drop out. If you Google Kasich news, here are some of the headlines you get:

- The Insane Campaign of John Kasich
- John Kasich's horrible, no good, very bad campaign
- The Walking Dead: John Kasich Is Not Going to Win the Republican Presidential Nomination
- Everyone hates John Kasich (Get out...already)
- How many delegates will Kasich win for Trump today?
- John Kasich faces GOP calls to exit ‘16 race

The funny thing is that it is coming both from the far left and the far right - that tells a story in itself! I actually give him credit just in focusing and ignoring the cr.p.

[PeteB]

I posted this editorial from NYT in the Endorsements thread but I will resurrect this Kasich thread since the Times seem to be borrowing liberally from my arguments here and making a case for Kasich. Here is an excerpt and the link to the whole piece:

...Some conservative leaders see Mr. Cruz as their best chance for maintaining their influence and are thus reluctant to work for Mr. Kasich. Others who backed Jeb Bush or Mr. Rubio resent Mr. Kasich for not yielding to their candidate. Others worry that Mr. Kasich’s views on the poor, Muslims and immigrants place him too far from the right to win in a brokered convention....But in a year when cruelty and exclusion stand as hallmarks of conservatism, “It would be courageous to stand up and say that Kasich is a different kind of conservative,” who doesn’t see government, or foreigners, as enemies, Mr. Olsen says. “These voters exist, and there’s a lot of them.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/02/opinion/why-should-never-trump-mean-ted-cruz.html

[Kingpoleon]

On Atlas perhaps, but in the media there is a concerted almost panicky effort to get Kasich to drop out. If you Google Kasich news, here are some of the headlines you get:

- The Insane Campaign of John Kasich
- John Kasich's horrible, no good, very bad campaign
- The Walking Dead: John Kasich Is Not Going to Win the Republican Presidential Nomination
- Everyone hates John Kasich (Get out...already)
- How many delegates will Kasich win for Trump today?
- John Kasich faces GOP calls to exit ‘16 race

The funny thing is that it is coming both from the far left and the far right - that tells a story in itself! I actually give him credit just in focusing and ignoring the cr.p.

The far left, the far right, and the establishment.


I urge him to doubt the establishment just a bit this year.

[Derpist]

I don't understand why people think Kasich will be so strong in the general election. He reminds me of McCain. A supposed maverick who faces no media scrutiny because he's oh so maverick.

Then we get to the general election and the country isn't convinced by "oh gosh willy, time to invade Iran! ...and that's how I balanced the budget!"

[Kingpoleon]

I don't understand why people think Kasich will be so strong in the general election. He reminds me of McCain. A supposed maverick who faces no media scrutiny because he's oh so maverick.

Then we get to the general election and the country isn't convinced by "oh gosh willy, time to invade Iran! ...and that's how I balanced the budget!"

McCain did great considering, you know, the recession. The last time we nominated a Kasich like figure was in 1976, where Ford narrowly lost to a born again Southern Democrat after WATERGATE.

[Virginiá]

Part III - Kasich the Anti-Establishment Choice

I like a lot of what you're saying on other things, but this is tripe. Kasich is more likely to be a puppet than not. He has shown his allegiance both conservative establishment pandering and gaming elections, such as PP defunding, signing badly gerrymandered maps then suddenly being in favor of reform when he's running for president, creating voter restrictions to help him and his Republican pals in 2014. Or him taking credit for things he is not due.

Kasich is just acting like a moderate, when in reality he's nothing. He probably has a few of his own views tucked away in a safe spot, but he'll be a vessel for the establishment for as long as he has any power over anything.

I'm now dreaming of Kasich calling in the Ohio National Guard to storm the Republican Convention in Cleveland and declare himself the nominee by force. It would be a fitting ending to how this cycle has gone so far. One can dream.

"The appalling thing about fascism is that you've got to use fascist methods to get rid of it."

Brilliant!

McCain did great considering, you know, the recession. The last time we nominated a Kasich like figure was in 1976, where Ford narrowly lost to a born again Southern Democrat after WATERGATE.

The candidate matters much but the time period also does as well. 1976 was during a period of pro-Republican trends at the presidential level, so a lot of traditional Democrats would have had a difficult time winning at that time. Watergate is probably the only reason Carter didn't lose in a landslide. Republicans had a built-in advantage at the time - Similar to Democrats now.

[PeteB]

Part III - Kasich the Anti-Establishment Choice

I like a lot of what you're saying on other things, but this is tripe. Kasich is more likely to be a puppet than not. He has shown his allegiance both conservative establishment pandering and gaming elections, such as PP defunding, signing badly gerrymandered maps then suddenly being in favor of reform when he's running for president, creating voter restrictions to help him and his Republican pals in 2014. Or him taking credit for things he is not due.

Kasich is just acting like a moderate, when in reality he's nothing. He probably has a few of his own views tucked away in a safe spot, but he'll be a vessel for the establishment for as long as he has any power over anything.

...

I might be biased , but I would hardly call it tripe (and the NYT agrees with me that the establishment does not think it can "control" Kasich). Keep in mind that Kasich is a conservative, so he will always make some decisions (like the PP defunding) that liberals will not like. But if he was truly a pawn of the establishment OH would not have the Medicaid expansion through Obamacare, plus he would have bowed out for Rubio and/or Cruz already. And while I don't know him personally, he definitely seems to have very clear moral values and beliefs. Of course Kasich is not a loose cannon - I do believe that he will confer and work with the establishment, but I also think that he won't hesitate to work across the aisle if he feels that is needed. This and his experience in governing is why the establishment is concerned  that he cannot be controlled. Cruz and Trump, on the other hand, will need all the establishment help they can get!

[SillyAmerican]

The Bloomberg national poll just came out, showing 1 on 1 matchups:

Clinton 54% Trump 36% (Clinton + 8%)
Clinton 51% Cruz 42% (Clinton + 18%)
Kasich 47% Clinton 43% (Kasich + 4%)

This is now the sixth national poll showing Cruz being destroyed by Clinton while Trump gets totally obliterated, in a head to head matchup. And in every single one of them Kasich beats Hillary (and Bernie).  Six separate independent polls cannot be all wrong. Having Cruz lose by 8% rather than Trump lose by 18% does NOT make the loss any more acceptable to the GOP.

And yet the biggest problem for the GOP establishment is apparently the fact that Kasich does not want to leave the race and leave Trump and Cruz as the only options? Yep, that sure makes a whole lot of sense.

O tempora o mores!

On Atlas perhaps, but in the media there is a concerted almost panicky effort to get Kasich to drop out. If you Google Kasich news, here are some of the headlines you get:

- The Insane Campaign of John Kasich
- John Kasich's horrible, no good, very bad campaign
- The Walking Dead: John Kasich Is Not Going to Win the Republican Presidential Nomination
- Everyone hates John Kasich (Get out...already)
- How many delegates will Kasich win for Trump today?
- John Kasich faces GOP calls to exit ‘16 race

The funny thing is that it is coming both from the far left and the far right - that tells a story in itself! I actually give him credit just in focusing and ignoring the cr.p.

Kasich is easily the best GOP candidate to go against Hillary, everybody knows it (including him), and he's staying in the race to let the process catch up with this fact. Those seeking to protest the establishment will vote Trump, those seeking partisanship clashing will vote Cruz, those seeking executive governance will vote Kasich. It's as simple as that.

[PeteB]

And in case you are wondering about who's best for the economy, here is today's Barron's:

Kasich: The Best Pick for Markets and the Economy
....It’s time for Republicans to take a closer look at John Kasich.

[Slander and/or Libel]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/answering-ross-douthat

[Classic Conservative]

The case against:

1. He's already been rejected by the voting public.

[PeteB]

The case against:

1. He's already been rejected by the voting public.

Nope.  He has been largely forgotten by the media and the voting public, who are trying to navigate the extremes between the "Trump Reality Circus" and the establishment panicky calls to "Vote Cruz or face Doomsday".  As the GE comes closer, that will change - hence the recent panic in both Trump and Cruz campaigns to get rid of Kasich, before he becomes a real threat.

Both the public and the delegates in Cleveland will have their chance to choose a viable GE choice, or pick one of the two current frontrunners and lose what was essentially an "easy lay-up" election.

[PeteB]

Interesting details on the proposed Kasich strategy, both for the convention an the GE, outlined at a closed meeting to supporters yesterday have leaked out. Among other things the Kasich team currently projects a 274:196 win over Clinton, with 68 electors to spare and believes that he can carry MI, PA and WI. Excerpts and a link below.

"The plan, shared at a closed-door meeting Wednesday in Washington, rests on the Ohio governor's high favorability ratings, his lead over Democrat Hillary Clinton in early general election polls, and on his ability to convert delegates on later ballots.

"After the first two ballots, most delegates are released from their obligation to vote for a specific candidate," reads a slide from the Kasich campaign's PowerPoint presentation, shared Thursday with cleveland.com by a person who attended the gathering.

"Republican delegates are predominantly grassroots activists, local party officials, and elected officials. Governor Kasich is the only candidate that is left on the stage that has crossover appeal to all factions of the party. Everyone else will be carrying deep battle scars into Cleveland. Governor Kasich will be able to bring different factions together where others can't."
..........
Among the assertions Kasich's campaign made in Wednesday's presentation:

* That Kasich has run a frugal and efficient campaign, spending less per delegate than Cruz.
* That voters view Kasich more favorably than his two remaining GOP rivals.....
*That, with one exception benefiting Cruz, Kasich is the only one of the three Republicans beating Clinton in head-to-head polls. ....
*That Kasich can win three states in the fall – Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – that Democratic presidential nominees have carried at least as far back as 1988. The campaign projects a 274-196 electoral vote edge over Clinton, with 68 up for grabs. (It takes 270 to win.)
* That Kasich's Cleveland effort is being helped by Stu Spencer and Charlie Black – veterans of the last contested GOP convention in 1976. ...

More at:
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2016/04/heres_how_john_kasichs_team_pi.html

[Dr. Arch]

Dude, give it up already. He's done.

[yankeesfan]

Dude, give it up already. He's done.

[Virginiá]

I might be biased , but I would hardly call it tripe (and the NYT agrees with me that the establishment does not think it can "control" Kasich). Keep in mind that Kasich is a conservative, so he will always make some decisions (like the PP defunding) that liberals will not like. But if he was truly a pawn of the establishment OH would not have the Medicaid expansion through Obamacare, plus he would have bowed out for Rubio and/or Cruz already. And while I don't know him personally, he definitely seems to have very clear moral values and beliefs. Of course Kasich is not a loose cannon - I do believe that he will confer and work with the establishment, but I also think that he won't hesitate to work across the aisle if he feels that is needed. This and his experience in governing is why the establishment is concerned  that he cannot be controlled. Cruz and Trump, on the other hand, will need all the establishment help they can get!

He comes from a different region, though. He isn't the only Republican to expand Medicaid.

To be honest, I'm pretty set in my views of him, but I also see debating this as sort of an uninteresting lost cause because it still seems unlikely that he will get the nomination. Also, I shouldn't have called your idea "tripe". That was a little mean-spirited. Sorry about that.

[PeteB]

I might be biased , but I would hardly call it tripe (and the NYT agrees with me that the establishment does not think it can "control" Kasich). Keep in mind that Kasich is a conservative, so he will always make some decisions (like the PP defunding) that liberals will not like. But if he was truly a pawn of the establishment OH would not have the Medicaid expansion through Obamacare, plus he would have bowed out for Rubio and/or Cruz already. And while I don't know him personally, he definitely seems to have very clear moral values and beliefs. Of course Kasich is not a loose cannon - I do believe that he will confer and work with the establishment, but I also think that he won't hesitate to work across the aisle if he feels that is needed. This and his experience in governing is why the establishment is concerned  that he cannot be controlled. Cruz and Trump, on the other hand, will need all the establishment help they can get!

He comes from a different region, though. He isn't the only Republican to expand Medicaid.

To be honest, I'm pretty set in my views of him, but I also see debating this as sort of an uninteresting lost cause because it still seems unlikely that he will get the nomination. Also, I shouldn't have called your idea "tripe". That was a little mean-spirited. Sorry about that.

No harm done . As for "uninteresting", we'll see how things develop in the NE.

[PeteB]

Dude, give it up already. He's done.

Apparently, HuffPost did not get your memo either:

John Kasich Will Be the Republican Nominee for President
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/john-kasich-will-be-the-r_b_9638598.html

It's an interesting read but a little far fetched even for me. It essentially claims that Kasich and Rubio will present a "Unity Ticket", entering the Convention with almost as many delegates as Cruz. Kasich would be the POTUS nominee and Rubio his VP.

[Dr. Arch]

Dude, give it up already. He's done.

Apparently, HuffPost did not get your memo either:

John Kasich Will Be the Republican Nominee for President
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/john-kasich-will-be-the-r_b_9638598.html

It's an interesting read but a little far fetched even for me. It essentially claims that Kasich and Rubio will present a "Unity Ticket", entering the Convention with almost as many delegates as Cruz. Kasich would be the POTUS nominee and Rubio his VP.

Rubio??? RUBIO!? I would consider voting for Kasich, but not if he has someone as inept as Rubio on the ticket.