The Case for Kasich as POTUS

[Citizen Hats]

I strongly suspect that an open convention will arrive at a candidate that is not currently in the running.  The animosity between the Cruz and Kasich (and the rest of the GOP) is going to keep them from voting for each-other, and it will have to be, as in the olden days, a separate compromise candidate who is more widely acceptable then the much-loathed Ted Cruz and the fellow who's dogged determination to not drop out would have nearly made Donald Trump the nominee.

[RFayette 🇻🇦]

Trump is the only one who has a path to 1237 delegates, as narrowly as that is. And even if Trump is within 50 delegates, they will realize how bad taking away his nomination will be for the party in 2016 and in the future.

Agreed, though I find it irritating how the AAD crew was all for Trump just a few weeks ago and now they're saying, "LOL, Hillary will easily beat him, no problem."  It will be an uphill fight, but I hope so much that Trump pounds her and wrests the Presidency away from Clinton.  He'll secure our border, stop the PC SJW nonsense, shove it to the radical Muslims rather than appeasing them, and make us great again.

[TJ in Oregon]

Trump is the only one who has a path to 1237 delegates, as narrowly as that is. And even if Trump is within 50 delegates, they will realize how bad taking away his nomination will be for the party in 2016 and in the future.

Agreed, though I find it irritating how the AAD crew was all for Trump just a few weeks ago and now they're saying, "LOL, Hillary will easily beat him, no problem."  It will be an uphill fight, but I hope so much that Trump pounds her and wrests the Presidency away from Clinton.  He'll secure our border, stop the PC SJW nonsense, shove it to the radical Muslims rather than appeasing them, and make us great again.

It's obvious isn't it? Of course the Democrats wanted the Republicans to nominate our worst candidate to make sure Hillary wins.

[Boston Bread]

Agreed, though I find it irritating how the AAD crew was all for Trump just a few weeks ago and now they're saying, "LOL, Hillary will easily beat him, no problem."  It will be an uphill fight, but I hope so much that Trump pounds her and wrests the Presidency away from Clinton.  He'll secure our border, stop the PC SJW nonsense, shove it to the radical Muslims rather than appeasing them, and make us great again.

I'm sure you'll be happy about the recession Trump's trade policies will cause. And what do you get in return? Stopping "PC nonsense"? I have no clue what that is going to accomplish for anybody.

Still a better choice than Cruz though. You're moving in the right direction.

[RFayette 🇻🇦]

Trump is the only one who has a path to 1237 delegates, as narrowly as that is. And even if Trump is within 50 delegates, they will realize how bad taking away his nomination will be for the party in 2016 and in the future.

Agreed, though I find it irritating how the AAD crew was all for Trump just a few weeks ago and now they're saying, "LOL, Hillary will easily beat him, no problem."  It will be an uphill fight, but I hope so much that Trump pounds her and wrests the Presidency away from Clinton.  He'll secure our border, stop the PC SJW nonsense, shove it to the radical Muslims rather than appeasing them, and make us great again.

It's obvious isn't it? Of course the Democrats wanted the Republicans to nominate our worst candidate to make sure Hillary wins.

They were explicitly saying Trump was the most electable Republican as early as a week ago.

[TJ in Oregon]

Trump is the only one who has a path to 1237 delegates, as narrowly as that is. And even if Trump is within 50 delegates, they will realize how bad taking away his nomination will be for the party in 2016 and in the future.

Agreed, though I find it irritating how the AAD crew was all for Trump just a few weeks ago and now they're saying, "LOL, Hillary will easily beat him, no problem."  It will be an uphill fight, but I hope so much that Trump pounds her and wrests the Presidency away from Clinton.  He'll secure our border, stop the PC SJW nonsense, shove it to the radical Muslims rather than appeasing them, and make us great again.

It's obvious isn't it? Of course the Democrats wanted the Republicans to nominate our worst candidate to make sure Hillary wins.

They were explicitly saying Trump was the most electable Republican as early as a week ago.

Sure but they obviously didn't believe it.

[PeteB]

The bottom line is that this was an election where Republicans seemed to have all the cards. After two terms of President Obama, the public was ready for a change. The Democratic presumptive nominee Clinton has plenty of experience, but is hardly an agent for change. Things were aligning and all that the GOP had to do was field a reasonable alternative and finish‎ with the Presidency and overall control of Congress.

Instead they botched this royally. The GOP candidates allowed the change agenda to be hijacked and dominated by the fringe elements‎, which both Trump and Cruz represent. The so-called "establishment" kept calling the wrong shots and supporting all the wrong candidates (Walker, Bush, now Cruz).

I like Kasich, although some other credible GOP choices would be really nice, but at this point, that is irrelevant. For the GOP, it's now come down to a simple choice between either Kasich or Clinton!‎

[Simfan34]

I'm now dreaming of Kasich calling in the Ohio National Guard to storm the Republican Convention in Cleveland and declare himself the nominee by force. It would be a fitting ending to how this cycle has gone so far. One can dream.

"The appalling thing about fascism is that you've got to use fascist methods to get rid of it."

Also PeteB, everything you're saying is correct.

[SATW]

There is no case for Kasich. Case closed.

[PeteB]

There is no case for Kasich. Case closed.

I guess they didn't get your memo:

CBS/NYT national poll: Clinton beats Cruz, Trump; loses to Kasich

[rbt48]

If Trump is short of 1237 and he doesn't strike a deal with Cruz (VP), anything is possible.  After ballot 1, many of the Trump delegates will abandon him as they are actually chosen by state party leaders.  Take South Carolina; 55 Trump delegates, all chosen by Gov Haley with help from Sen Scott and Sen Graham.  They won't be voting for Trump after ballot 1.

Of course, perhaps Kasich would give his delegates to Trump in exchange for the VP slot.  Stranger things have happened, but I doubt this would occur.

Trump will raise a stink if he is not selected no matter how close or far he is from the magic number.  Nominating someone like Kasich who he has beaten in all but one primary would really set him off, even if the polls show Kasich can beat Hillary and Trump/Cruz cannot.  A dark horse (a la James Garfield, 1880) would have less likelihood of angering him and his supporters (still a high likelihood).  Possible dark horses I can envision are as follows:
- Paul Ryan
- Bruce Rauner
- Brian Sandoval
- Chris Christie (only because he endorsed Trump)

[PeteB]

Two new national polls today (CBS/NYT and CNN/ORC both show that out of Trump, Cruz and Kasich, only Kasich beats Hillary (he is +4 in the CBS poll and +6 in the CNN poll). Trump loses to Hillary in both polls, by double digits. Cruz loses in the CBS one and just ties Hillary in the CNN one.

We can speculate all we want about Trump or Cruz somehow overcoming that difference or drafting Romney, Ryan or Sandoval, to jump in, but the bottom line is that, if the GOP wants to win, the solution is staring us in the face - nominate John Kasich.

[Slander and/or Libel]

How would the party be unified in this scenario? How would they get over the charges that they just wasted a year of everybody's time, and millions upon millions of dollars of donors' and states' money running primaries which they ultimately were going to decide didn't matter?

[PresidentTRUMP]

Yes John Kasich of all of the people running for president is the most qualified and would make the best president, but that would require republican primary voters having a brain, which obviously isn't the case.

[PeteB]

How would the party be unified in this scenario? How would they get over the charges that they just wasted a year of everybody's time, and millions upon millions of dollars of donors' and states' money running primaries which they ultimately were going to decide didn't matter?

Unless Trump gets the 1,237 delegates, and the party tried to deny him the nomination, I don't see a problem. The candidates competed in primaries and caucuses, nobody got the required majority and one of them was chosen at the Convention. Where there would also be a problem is if someone else now tried to get into the game, at this late stage (Romney, Ryan).

As for unifying the party, are you seriously suggesting that Trump or Cruz are better positioned to unify the party than Kasich? In the CBS poll, Kasich was universally picked as the second choice of Trump and Cruz voters.

[Slander and/or Libel]

How would the party be unified in this scenario? How would they get over the charges that they just wasted a year of everybody's time, and millions upon millions of dollars of donors' and states' money running primaries which they ultimately were going to decide didn't matter?

Unless Trump gets the 1,237 delegates, and the party tried to deny him the nomination, I don't see a problem. The candidates competed in primaries and caucuses, nobody got the required majority and one of them was chosen at the Convention. Where there would also be a problem is if someone else now tried to get into the game, at this late stage (Romney, Ryan).

As for unifying the party, are you seriously suggesting that Trump or Cruz are better positioned to unify the party than Kasich? In the CBS poll, Kasich was universally picked as the second choice of Trump and Cruz voters.

UNIVERSALLY? That seems difficult to believe.

And I'm not saying any of what you said. I'm asking how, if for instance Trump wound up with 1200 delegates, handing the nomination to Kasich would upend things. Not saying Trump deserves anything, not stumping for him. But to just blindly say there would be no problem seems willfully ignorant.

[PeteB]

How would the party be unified in this scenario? How would they get over the charges that they just wasted a year of everybody's time, and millions upon millions of dollars of donors' and states' money running primaries which they ultimately were going to decide didn't matter?

Unless Trump gets the 1,237 delegates, and the party tried to deny him the nomination, I don't see a problem. The candidates competed in primaries and caucuses, nobody got the required majority and one of them was chosen at the Convention. Where there would also be a problem is if someone else now tried to get into the game, at this late stage (Romney, Ryan).

As for unifying the party, are you seriously suggesting that Trump or Cruz are better positioned to unify the party than Kasich? In the CBS poll, Kasich was universally picked as the second choice of Trump and Cruz voters.

UNIVERSALLY? That seems difficult to believe.

And I'm not saying any of what you said. I'm asking how, if for instance Trump wound up with 1200 delegates, handing the nomination to Kasich would upend things. Not saying Trump deserves anything, not stumping for him. But to just blindly say there would be no problem seems willfully ignorant.

If Trump is so close to 1,237, I am sure that, as the renowned author of the Art of the Deal, he can strike a few deals and get the 37 votes he needs .

And I did not say there would be no complaints.  If this goes to Convention, both candidates who are not chosen will initially cry wolf.  What I am saying is that if this is done within the rules, those complaints will eventually be forgotten.

[Slander and/or Libel]

How would the party be unified in this scenario? How would they get over the charges that they just wasted a year of everybody's time, and millions upon millions of dollars of donors' and states' money running primaries which they ultimately were going to decide didn't matter?

Unless Trump gets the 1,237 delegates, and the party tried to deny him the nomination, I don't see a problem. The candidates competed in primaries and caucuses, nobody got the required majority and one of them was chosen at the Convention. Where there would also be a problem is if someone else now tried to get into the game, at this late stage (Romney, Ryan).

As for unifying the party, are you seriously suggesting that Trump or Cruz are better positioned to unify the party than Kasich? In the CBS poll, Kasich was universally picked as the second choice of Trump and Cruz voters.

UNIVERSALLY? That seems difficult to believe.

And I'm not saying any of what you said. I'm asking how, if for instance Trump wound up with 1200 delegates, handing the nomination to Kasich would upend things. Not saying Trump deserves anything, not stumping for him. But to just blindly say there would be no problem seems willfully ignorant.

If Trump is so close to 1,237, I am sure that, as the renowned author of the Art of the Deal, he can strike a few deals and get the 37 votes he needs .

And I did not say there would be no complaints.  If this goes to Convention, both candidates who are not chosen will initially cry wolf.  What I am saying is that if this is done within the rules, those complaints will eventually be forgotten.

And I'm saying that last is an assertion made apparently with full confidence but no evidence.

[Kingpoleon]

But - but Canadians are much farther left than Americans, and so since Kasich is barely right of center-right here, he's a Neo-Nazi to them! Atlas told me so!

In all seriousness, I think Kasich can beat Hillary or Sanders, but I expect he won't be the nominee. And yes, I was that one vote for him in every poll back to November as to "who do you think will be the nominee" and "which establishment Republican does best in NH"? I was right about the last one. However, I think I will have to be one for two.

[PeteB]

How would the party be unified in this scenario? How would they get over the charges that they just wasted a year of everybody's time, and millions upon millions of dollars of donors' and states' money running primaries which they ultimately were going to decide didn't matter?

Unless Trump gets the 1,237 delegates, and the party tried to deny him the nomination, I don't see a problem. The candidates competed in primaries and caucuses, nobody got the required majority and one of them was chosen at the Convention. Where there would also be a problem is if someone else now tried to get into the game, at this late stage (Romney, Ryan).

As for unifying the party, are you seriously suggesting that Trump or Cruz are better positioned to unify the party than Kasich? In the CBS poll, Kasich was universally picked as the second choice of Trump and Cruz voters.

UNIVERSALLY? That seems difficult to believe.

And I'm not saying any of what you said. I'm asking how, if for instance Trump wound up with 1200 delegates, handing the nomination to Kasich would upend things. Not saying Trump deserves anything, not stumping for him. But to just blindly say there would be no problem seems willfully ignorant.

If Trump is so close to 1,237, I am sure that, as the renowned author of the Art of the Deal, he can strike a few deals and get the 37 votes he needs .

And I did not say there would be no complaints.  If this goes to Convention, both candidates who are not chosen will initially cry wolf.  What I am saying is that if this is done within the rules, those complaints will eventually be forgotten.

And I'm saying that last is an assertion made apparently with full confidence but no evidence.

Having "evidence" of future behavior is kind of difficult (without a time machine ).  But I do believe that if one of them fairly wins (whether with 1,237 votes before Cleveland, or at the Convention, following all the rules), that the other two would fall in line (perhaps not very enthusiastically but eventually they will).

[Slander and/or Libel]

How would the party be unified in this scenario? How would they get over the charges that they just wasted a year of everybody's time, and millions upon millions of dollars of donors' and states' money running primaries which they ultimately were going to decide didn't matter?

Unless Trump gets the 1,237 delegates, and the party tried to deny him the nomination, I don't see a problem. The candidates competed in primaries and caucuses, nobody got the required majority and one of them was chosen at the Convention. Where there would also be a problem is if someone else now tried to get into the game, at this late stage (Romney, Ryan).

As for unifying the party, are you seriously suggesting that Trump or Cruz are better positioned to unify the party than Kasich? In the CBS poll, Kasich was universally picked as the second choice of Trump and Cruz voters.

UNIVERSALLY? That seems difficult to believe.

And I'm not saying any of what you said. I'm asking how, if for instance Trump wound up with 1200 delegates, handing the nomination to Kasich would upend things. Not saying Trump deserves anything, not stumping for him. But to just blindly say there would be no problem seems willfully ignorant.

If Trump is so close to 1,237, I am sure that, as the renowned author of the Art of the Deal, he can strike a few deals and get the 37 votes he needs .

And I did not say there would be no complaints.  If this goes to Convention, both candidates who are not chosen will initially cry wolf.  What I am saying is that if this is done within the rules, those complaints will eventually be forgotten.

And I'm saying that last is an assertion made apparently with full confidence but no evidence.

Having "evidence" of future behavior is kind of difficult (without a time machine ).  But I do believe that if one of them fairly wins (whether with 1,237 votes before Cleveland, or at the Convention, following all the rules), that the other two would fall in line (perhaps not very enthusiastically but eventually they will).

Ugh. I'm not asking for evidence of something that hasn't happened yet. Only evidence for why you believe everybody would just fall in line with nominating the guy that was most rejected by the party, of the last three left standing.

[The Mikado]

There's a very real chance that Kasich ends up 1/56 in victories in delegate-awarding contests, only in the top two in under 10 other contests, winning under 10% of delegates, a distant third behind Trump and Cruz and only marginally ahead of Rubio, who dropped out midway through.

In what universe is such a colossal loser a proper nominee?

Whatever else we can say about GOP voter preference, it's already clear that less than 15% of GOP primary voters will have expressed a preference for Kasich, and in many states sub-10% or even sub-5% have. Why would or should the party fall in line behind him?

[PeteB]

How would the party be unified in this scenario? How would they get over the charges that they just wasted a year of everybody's time, and millions upon millions of dollars of donors' and states' money running primaries which they ultimately were going to decide didn't matter?

Unless Trump gets the 1,237 delegates, and the party tried to deny him the nomination, I don't see a problem. The candidates competed in primaries and caucuses, nobody got the required majority and one of them was chosen at the Convention. Where there would also be a problem is if someone else now tried to get into the game, at this late stage (Romney, Ryan).

As for unifying the party, are you seriously suggesting that Trump or Cruz are better positioned to unify the party than Kasich? In the CBS poll, Kasich was universally picked as the second choice of Trump and Cruz voters.

UNIVERSALLY? That seems difficult to believe.

And I'm not saying any of what you said. I'm asking how, if for instance Trump wound up with 1200 delegates, handing the nomination to Kasich would upend things. Not saying Trump deserves anything, not stumping for him. But to just blindly say there would be no problem seems willfully ignorant.

If Trump is so close to 1,237, I am sure that, as the renowned author of the Art of the Deal, he can strike a few deals and get the 37 votes he needs .

And I did not say there would be no complaints.  If this goes to Convention, both candidates who are not chosen will initially cry wolf.  What I am saying is that if this is done within the rules, those complaints will eventually be forgotten.

And I'm saying that last is an assertion made apparently with full confidence but no evidence.

Having "evidence" of future behavior is kind of difficult (without a time machine ).  But I do believe that if one of them fairly wins (whether with 1,237 votes before Cleveland, or at the Convention, following all the rules), that the other two would fall in line (perhaps not very enthusiastically but eventually they will).

Ugh. I'm not asking for evidence of something that hasn't happened yet. Only evidence for why you believe everybody would just fall in line with nominating the guy that was most rejected by the party, of the last three left standing.

I was just teasing you about the time machine .

But if you want my rationale as to why they will fall in line, it's simple. Without the perception that there was foul play, there is no way to fire up their supporters against the nominee, nor to finance a potential third party bid. This is especially true of Cruz, who could either ask (and probably get) other favors in return for his support, or go third party self destruct and end his political career.

Trump could of course self-finance but unless he is completely delusional, he would have to know that the $$ he spends are going down a black hole for no other reason than to prove how big his...ego is. Whatever else I think of him, I am guessing he understands ROI and cares about his own money.

A much better course of action for both Cruz and Trump, at that point, is to secure policies and influence in the future administration, in return for their support.

But, as you said, that is just my opinion and we are talking about loose cannons here.

[Slander and/or Libel]

So why should everybody just rally behind a candidate that they pretty decisively rejected in the primaries?

[PeteB]

If he is the nominee and he won fair and square, playing by the rules, why wouldn't they?