Stop reacting to Trump with overt snobbery

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

It's tempting to think only idiots supports Trump and while there are many idiots among his electorate, that's hardly the whole picture. There are wider reasons of Trump's appeal and we should try to understand them instead dismissing them en masse as morons. I certainly consider their support misjudged, of course.

Among my acquaintances who don't lean left, I'm seeing a number of people willing to ignore Trump's more offensive comments and positions in favor of "sticking it to the establishment".

This is part of what frustrates me so much. There are people voting for Trump just to send a message to Kevin McCarthy or Mitch McConnell, not taking into account what happens if he actually becomes President.

After eight years of Clinton, followed eight years of W, and eight more years of Obama, in a contest between "eight more years of the same from another Clinton" and "who knows WTF Trump will do" the devil they don't know looks a little bit better every time Hillary opens her mouth. I don't agree, but I can definitely understand.

[ProudModerate2]

Democrats haven't learned their lesson from 2004.

That's a British newspaper, actually.

Oops. Someone is not looking very credible after posting that. Fail !!

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Why should I be polite to racist cretins who are voting for Trump solely because they are bigoted, hateful people? I refuse to do this. I believe it's undignified to love those who despise you. ag's take on this election is apt. here's a paraphrase: "I don't fear trump so much as I fear his supporters". Trump isn't particularly scary. He says what he knows will resonate with the electorate. If Trump wasn't exploiting these sentiments, another candidate would, which is why the fact that it resonates should elicit a moral judgement upon those who have the temerity to hate entire segments of the population to the point where they wish for families to be separated, for people to be tortured, for refugees to drown in the Mediterranean etc.  Trump isn't the problem. Most of Trump's supporters are the problem.

When your actions are a mirror version of theirs, you do two bad things. First, you legitimize their behavior as appropriate and acceptable. And second, you reinforce the idea that their opponents aren't any better than they are, that ranting and chanting is all there is to any political movement, with the only difference being which team you're on.

[ProudModerate2]

It's tempting to think only idiots supports Trump and while there are many idiots among his electorate, that's hardly the whole picture. There are wider reasons of Trump's appeal and we should try to understand them instead dismissing them en masse as morons. I certainly consider their support misjudged, of course.

Go to a Trump rally, I'm guessing you won't find a single college degree amongst the filth

LMAO.

Quiet. Adults are talking here.

Not sure if you heard me, so I'll give it to you again ...
LMAO.

[yankeesfan]

Why should I be polite to racist cretins who are voting for Trump solely because they are bigoted, hateful people? I refuse to do this. I believe it's undignified to love those who despise you. ag's take on this election is apt. here's a paraphrase: "I don't fear trump so much as I fear his supporters". Trump isn't particularly scary. He says what he knows will resonate with the electorate. If Trump wasn't exploiting these sentiments, another candidate would, which is why the fact that it resonates should elicit a moral judgement upon those who have the temerity to hate entire segments of the population to the point where they wish for families to be separated, for people to be tortured, for refugees to drown in the Mediterranean etc.  Trump isn't the problem. Most of Trump's supporters are the problem.

When your actions are a mirror version of theirs, you do two bad things. First, you legitimize their behavior as appropriate and acceptable. And second, you reinforce the idea that their opponents aren't any better than they are, that ranting and chanting is all there is to any political movement, with the only difference being which team you're on.

Tyrants rise to power because the population looks the other way and tries to rationalize the disgusting behavior.  We can never give in and accept what Trump represents.

[RI]

For instance, Trump did fairly well in Dubuque, a bastion of the Democratic Party that has a working class and Catholic character, but turnout on the Democratic side was a bit higher, which calls into question the idea that many workers voted for Trump.

Actually no, turnout for the Democrats was never released by county in Iowa. Atlas lists state delegate equivalents (multiplied by 100) which are not directly correlated with actual turnout.

[Virginiá]

I agree. Bashing Trump supporters for being "white-trash" and for being working-class and uneducated is immoral.

On the flip side, Trump supporters should stop attacking minorities, women, etc. They shouldn't consider calling a group of people drug dealers and rapists as 'telling it like it is' (even though immigrants commit less crimes on average than native-born citizens). 20% of them believe that we should bring back slavery.

I love it how it's a sin when we make fun of Trump supporters, yet these people can make fun of minorities as much as they want too.

This is pretty good.

Also, while I'm not saying the people voting/supporting Trump are actually stupid/idiots in general, they are being stupid/idiotic right now by supporting Trump. He is not fit to be president - At all. He is almost a picture-perfect example of who should never, ever be allowed near a position of power in government. I'm not even going to bother explaining why, either, as his behavior, downright offensive and evil strategy and past tomfoolery speaks for itself.

That being said, I completely understand the desire for an outsider. I just think it's downright stupid and even dangerous to try and put Trump in the White House. I mean my god, of all people, Trump? The man repulses me so badly that I almost wish that were he elected president and does in fact screw the country up badly, that all his supporters be rounded up and have forced electroshock therapy for helping to bring such madness upon the country and the rest of its sane inhabitants.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Why should I be polite to racist cretins who are voting for Trump solely because they are bigoted, hateful people? I refuse to do this. I believe it's undignified to love those who despise you. ag's take on this election is apt. here's a paraphrase: "I don't fear trump so much as I fear his supporters". Trump isn't particularly scary. He says what he knows will resonate with the electorate. If Trump wasn't exploiting these sentiments, another candidate would, which is why the fact that it resonates should elicit a moral judgement upon those who have the temerity to hate entire segments of the population to the point where they wish for families to be separated, for people to be tortured, for refugees to drown in the Mediterranean etc.  Trump isn't the problem. Most of Trump's supporters are the problem.

When your actions are a mirror version of theirs, you do two bad things. First, you legitimize their behavior as appropriate and acceptable. And second, you reinforce the idea that their opponents aren't any better than they are, that ranting and chanting is all there is to any political movement, with the only difference being which team you're on.

Oh, not this stupid fallacy...

Do I support legislating against these walking pieces of human garbage? No, of course not. My dislike is a personal matter expressed on forums and between friends. In a political sense, my views of these sorts of people is of no import. On the other hand, many Trump supporters are very passionate about the need to deport immigrants, to discriminate against Muslims and to support human rights abuses. There is a sharp divide between simply disliking a person or group and grounding your political behavior upon this dislike.

For the record, I also dislike many liberals even though I share many political views in common with them and I'm not shy about stating this. For instance: many people who slap "coexist" bumperstickers on their car and share upworthy videos are pretty detestable to me. They're cringeworthy sorts. I might agree with their views but the way they express them is irritating.

I could go on and on like this. The point being: I am a human being and I associate with people based on a number of factors, many of which imply a healthy dislike for those who do not meet the criteria. If I did otherwise, I wouldn't be much of a human being, I might as well be a vegetable. Part of what makes living so valuable is that we get to form our own interests, associate with who we want to associate etc. This is a good thing. Doing otherwise would be a sin: I would be lying to you and lying to myself; I would be one of those people who says "Nice guy! FF!" instead of expressing a nuanced opinion about another person.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'd like to point out that all I was ever asking of anyone with this thread was to find ways to criticize and attack Trump supporters that aren't centered around the tropes and rhetoric of overt class-based contempt (whether the assumptions about demographics behind that contempt are accurate of most Trump supporters or not). Considering how awful Trump and his campaign are, I would think this wouldn't be difficult.

[ag]

Please stop reacting to Trump with overt snobbery.

Yes, he's awful. Yes, it's frightening. Yes, it's tempting to point and laugh--and we should! But not at Trump supporters' socioeconomic status or their levels of education or their houses or their accents.

Stop calling them 'white trash'. Stop insulting their intelligence on the basis of their class. I don't remember if it was on this forum or not, but at one point I saw somebody use the word 'Trumptard'. Definitely don't say things like that.

Not only does it play into his narrative, it's also morally wrong to be prejudiced against people on these grounds.

I have never insulted their intelligence or socio-economic status. But I have insulted, and will continue to insult, their morality, their decency: for no moral or decent person can be a fascist in 2016.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I am glad that so far I have channeled all my hatred for Trump on the upper- or upper-middle-class twits on this forum who support him because it's what kewl kidz do.

It's gonna hurt a lot when TRUMP deports you.

The fact that you of all people would respond to that proves my point nicely.

[Simfan34]

When one-fifth of your supporters literally, and I mean literally, believe that slavery should have not been abolished, or think Truman was wrong to desegregate the armed forces, or when a third do not reject the principle of white supremacy, this kind of request pushes both the limits of personal tolerance and my reasonable judgement of a candidate and his ilk.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

When one-fifth of your supporters literally, and I mean literally, believe that slavery should have not been abolished, this kind of request pushes both the limits of personal tolerance and my assessment of a candidate and his ilk.

One would think that that fact would on its own provide more than enough ammunition to drag these people into the dirt.

Look, I'm really not concerned for the feelings of Trump supporters here, I'm concerned for people who fit this demographic that's getting slammed who don't support Trump but who are being painted as 'the kind of people who do'. I'm sorry; I should have made that clearer earlier.

[Simfan34]

When one-fifth of your supporters literally, and I mean literally, believe that slavery should have not been abolished, this kind of request pushes both the limits of personal tolerance and my assessment of a candidate and his ilk.

One would think that that fact would on its own provide more than enough ammunition to drag these people into the dirt.

Look, I'm really not concerned for the feelings of Trump supporters here, I'm concerned for people who fit this demographic that's getting slammed who don't support Trump but who are being painted as 'the kind of people who do'. I'm sorry; I should have made that clearer earlier.

All I am saying is that it is increasingly clear that these are simply bad people. No person with a functioning moral compass would even consider these things. And I don't think it's unrealistic to think there's a common factor behind such malfunctioning.

[ag]

I'd like to point out that all I was ever asking of anyone with this thread was to find ways to criticize and attack Trump supporters that aren't centered around the tropes and rhetoric of overt class-based contempt (whether the assumptions about demographics behind that contempt are accurate of most Trump supporters or not). Considering how awful Trump and his campaign are, I would think this wouldn't be difficult.

Of course, it is not difficult. These people should be insulted in person, as individuals, and not as members of any group. They should understand, that being a Trump supporter may mean that others will tell in public, in front of their parents and kids, that they think they - personal they - are abominable immoral beasts, undeserving of the name of a human being. That people they considered friends would break any sort of relationship with them: having recognised what sort of inhuman junk they are.

But, yes, they should be insulted in person, for their own sins: not for any group identity, and not even for whatever Donald Trump is saying - they are infinitely worse than Donald Trump himself

[Simfan34]

I'd like to point out that all I was ever asking of anyone with this thread was to find ways to criticize and attack Trump supporters that aren't centered around the tropes and rhetoric of overt class-based contempt (whether the assumptions about demographics behind that contempt are accurate of most Trump supporters or not). Considering how awful Trump and his campaign are, I would think this wouldn't be difficult.

Of course, it is not difficult. These people should be insulted in person, as individuals, and not as members of any group. They should understand, that being a Trump supporter may mean that others will tell in public, in front of their parents and kids, that they think they - personal they - are abominable immoral beasts, undeserving of the name of a human being. That people they considered friends would break any sort of relationship with them: having recognised what sort of inhuman junk they are.

But, yes, they should be insulted in person, for their own sins: not for any group identity, and not even for whatever Donald Trump is saying - they are infinitely worse than Donald Trump himself

Hear, here.

[ag]

I'd like to point out that all I was ever asking of anyone with this thread was to find ways to criticize and attack Trump supporters that aren't centered around the tropes and rhetoric of overt class-based contempt (whether the assumptions about demographics behind that contempt are accurate of most Trump supporters or not). Considering how awful Trump and his campaign are, I would think this wouldn't be difficult.

Of course, it is not difficult. These people should be insulted in person, as individuals, and not as members of any group. They should understand, that being a Trump supporter may mean that others will tell in public, in front of their parents and kids, that they think they - personal they - are abominable immoral beasts, undeserving of the name of a human being. That people they considered friends would break any sort of relationship with them: having recognised what sort of inhuman junk they are.

But, yes, they should be insulted in person, for their own sins: not for any group identity, and not even for whatever Donald Trump is saying - they are infinitely worse than Donald Trump himself

Hear, here.

I would like to thank the honourable member for New York for his support

[Asian Nazi]

Also gotta love the anti-TRUMP supporter bias on the part of the moderation team.  Not sure how else I explain all of the racist sh*t I report going unmoderated while my obvious joke is actioned and my entire posts are deleted.

I'll repeat my point, though. 

Why should TRUMP be held accountable for the supposed views of a very small minority of his supporters?  It's not as if TRUMP has ever expressed pro-slavery views.  TRUMP has and has always had a GREAT relationship with the blacks.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Why should TRUMP be held accountable for the supposed views of a very small minority of his supporters?  It's not as if TRUMP has ever expressed pro-slavery views.  TRUMP has and has always had a GREAT relationship with the blacks.

The thread is about what sort of invective is acceptable to use for his supporters, a significant minority of whom apparently have pro-slavery views, unless every racial minority in the United States (taken individually, not together) is also 'very small'.

[ag]

Also gotta love the anti-TRUMP supporter bias on the part of the moderation team.  Not sure how else I explain all of the racist sh*t I report going unmoderated while my obvious joke is actioned and my entire posts are deleted.

I'll repeat my point, though. 

Why should TRUMP be held accountable for the supposed views of a very small minority of his supporters?  It's not as if TRUMP has ever expressed pro-slavery views.  TRUMP has and has always had a GREAT relationship with the blacks.

It is not Trump who should be "held accountable" here. It is you. And I will make certain you are held accountable.

I would have much preferred your "funny little joke" not to have been removed: people need to know you for what you are, so that they are properly disgusted every time they see your avatar here.

[Antonio the Sixth]

what the actual f**k

[Asian Nazi]

The thread is about what sort of invective is acceptable to use for his supporters, a significant minority of whom apparently have pro-slavery views, unless every racial minority in the United States (taken individually, not together) is also 'very small'.

You should disparage individual TRUMP supporters (and others) who hold pro-slavery views, not tar us all with the same brush.  It's pretty insulting.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

what the actual f**k

The whole 2016 election, in four words.

[Asian Nazi]

It is not Trump who should be "held accountable" here. It is you. And I will make certain you are held accountable.

I would have much preferred your "funny little joke" not to have been removed: people need to know you for what you are, so that they are properly disgusted every time they see your avatar here.

You (apparently) think that TRUMP is a fascist, and all you're doing about it is whining and acting self-righteous towards his supporters on the internet?  

This is why TRUMP is winning.  The people who oppose him are a bigger joke than he is.

[ag]

The thread is about what sort of invective is acceptable to use for his supporters, a significant minority of whom apparently have pro-slavery views, unless every racial minority in the United States (taken individually, not together) is also 'very small'.

You should disparage individual TRUMP supporters (and others) who hold pro-slavery views, not tar us all with the same brush.  It's pretty insulting.

What is insulting is your own self, your own views that you have voluntarily chosen to hold and to spout. Your delightful sense of humour is only a part of it of course: but an integral part. It is insult to basic human decency. No decent human being should ever direct a word to you under any circumstances, unless that word can only be interpreted as a direct, unambiguous insult.