Cop in Eric Garner's death not indicted

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I don't think it's clear that he was resisting arrest. First of all, he was saying, "Don't touch me." That suggests he was still trying to communicate with the two officers- from his standpoint, it hadn't escalated beyond discussion. There was no attempt on his part to escape or defeat the officers in a physical confrontation. At most, he waved his arms around and turned his body while trying to talk with the officers. This is why, the break in the video is important, IMO. Was it clearly communicated to him, that he was in fact, under arrest, and that failure to comply would result in physical escalation? In other words, a warning? I think part of why this video is so explosive is that it seems to happen with no warning.

Okay, since the chokehold is indeed banned in that locale, then the cop probably should have been charged for that, possibly as severely as second degree homicide, if it could be shown that the death was a direct result of the hold.  That's not immediately clear since my understanding is that he died from respiratory problems and yet that chokehold clearly wasn't blocking off air since he could speak.  Given the guy's health problems, it's entirely possible that even without the chokehold he would have died as a result of that scuffle, in which case second degree homicide would not be an appropriate charge.  A lot would depend on what the coroner report indicated, since not all homicides are criminal in nature.

But yeah, the video has been so clearly edited at multiple points where it would have been reasonable for him to have been informed that he was being arrested, plus there was a clear edit at the point just before the police directly engaged him so that you can't tell from the video what happened immediately before that.  Unless there's some unedited footage, then the video is worthless as evidence.

[Adam Griffin]

I will admit that yes, I do tend to defend police. Not because my father was one, not because I grew up around them, but because nine times out of ten, their story actually is the accurate one. 

Well, it's a good start for you to admit that police are filthy liars who act improperly 10% of the time.

[Türkisblau]

Just because cops are right 90% of the time does not mean that the other 10% should get off scott free, especially when there's a video of the crime in action.

Unbelievable.

[Eraserhead]

They're not right "90% of the time" anyway. That's just made-up nonsense.

[ag]

We seem to forget, why police is there. They are not on the streets to terrorize the public with random murders.  If they were not "right" most of the time, they would have been a terrorist corporation, mere membership in which would have been grounds for a lengthy prison term. As it is, not only it is not a criminal offense to be a policeman, they are paid by the public and are defended by law as no other group. That, kind of, assumes they are doing the right thing a lot more than 90% of the time: the assumption that seems, at best, questionable.

[Maxwell]

Watching the video of Garner's death made me visibily upset. There like 4 cops holding him down and then 12 just roaming around the scene for no god damn reason. Anyone who's justifying using a chokehold for this situation is a Nazi.

[Rockefeller GOP]

It seems that many prominent conservatives aren't even drinking the pro-police Kool-aid on this one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/eric-garner-conservatives-chokehold_n_6264886.html

Why would they?  Stop being pathetic and politicizing a death.  No conservative on here besides that ONE poster with a very clear bias toward cops has said ANYTHING defending the police.

[Cobbler]

It seems that many prominent conservatives aren't even drinking the pro-police Kool-aid on this one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/eric-garner-conservatives-chokehold_n_6264886.html

Why would they?  Stop being pathetic and politicizing a death.  No conservative on here besides that ONE poster with a very clear bias toward cops has said ANYTHING defending the police.

You realize there are a lot of significant differences between the average conservative on Atlas and then prominent conservatives in the media/Congress, right?

[Rockefeller GOP]

It seems that many prominent conservatives aren't even drinking the pro-police Kool-aid on this one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/eric-garner-conservatives-chokehold_n_6264886.html

Why would they?  Stop being pathetic and politicizing a death.  No conservative on here besides that ONE poster with a very clear bias toward cops has said ANYTHING defending the police.

You realize there are a lot of significant differences between the average conservative on Atlas and then prominent conservatives in the media/Congress, right?

Fine, but turn on Fox News then.  Nobody is defending this.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Naso seems to finally have some company.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/peter-king-eric-garner_n_6265748.html

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said on Wednesday that if Eric Garner had been healthier, he would not have died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold.

"If he had not had asthma, and a heart condition and was so obese, almost definitely he would not have died from this," King told CNN's Wolf Blitzer during an interview.

Even though video captured Garner saying that he couldn't breathe as officer Daniel Pantaleo placed him in a chokehold and wrestled him to the ground, King said that "police had no reason to know that he was in serious condition."

"The fact is if you can't breathe, you can't talk," King said. "If you've ever seen anyone resisting arrest, I've seen it, and it's been white guys, and they're always saying, 'You're breaking my arm, you're choking me, you're doing this,' police hear this all the time."

[publicunofficial]

Naso seems to finally have some company.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/peter-king-eric-garner_n_6265748.html

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said on Wednesday that if Eric Garner had been healthier, he would not have died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold.

"If he had not had asthma, and a heart condition and was so obese, almost definitely he would not have died from this," King told CNN's Wolf Blitzer during an interview.

Even though video captured Garner saying that he couldn't breathe as officer Daniel Pantaleo placed him in a chokehold and wrestled him to the ground, King said that "police had no reason to know that he was in serious condition."

"The fact is if you can't breathe, you can't talk," King said. "If you've ever seen anyone resisting arrest, I've seen it, and it's been white guys, and they're always saying, 'You're breaking my arm, you're choking me, you're doing this,' police hear this all the time."

Sometimes I forget that Peter King is a complete monster.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Naso seems to finally have some company.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/peter-king-eric-garner_n_6265748.html

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said on Wednesday that if Eric Garner had been healthier, he would not have died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold.

"If he had not had asthma, and a heart condition and was so obese, almost definitely he would not have died from this," King told CNN's Wolf Blitzer during an interview.

Even though video captured Garner saying that he couldn't breathe as officer Daniel Pantaleo placed him in a chokehold and wrestled him to the ground, King said that "police had no reason to know that he was in serious condition."

"The fact is if you can't breathe, you can't talk," King said. "If you've ever seen anyone resisting arrest, I've seen it, and it's been white guys, and they're always saying, 'You're breaking my arm, you're choking me, you're doing this,' police hear this all the time."

And cops always say "STOP RESISTING" when a guy is on the ground and can't move and one cop is making minced meat out of the guys kidneys by kicking him or whacking him with his baton for "resisting".............it's bullsh**t.

[The Mikado]

If there's one good thing the last few months have done, it's that people are outraged again. Does anyone doubt that if this had happened five years ago it wouldn't have made it past the local news?

Even if "justice" isn't done in this case, the storm of national outrage leads me to suspect that there is a tide turning against the unquestioning acceptance of "tough on crime, put millions more cops on the street, more legal tools for law enforcement" rhetoric that has dominated political discourse since 1980. With violent crime at or near 50 year lows, maybe it's time to ease up on the militarization of police and the amazing legal leeway they have?

[Bojack Horseman]

"Anti-cop Liberals" PFFT! If you read CopBlock's website, they have links posted mainly to libertarian anti-government manifestos. I have a problem with cops who commit unjustified killings and get off scot-free. Personally, I think that it's gotten so bad that the death penalty should be an option for cops who kill unarmed children. It's time to make a statement here.

[TDAS04]

Naso seems to finally have some company.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/peter-king-eric-garner_n_6265748.html

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said on Wednesday that if Eric Garner had been healthier, he would not have died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold.

"If he had not had asthma, and a heart condition and was so obese, almost definitely he would not have died from this," King told CNN's Wolf Blitzer during an interview.

Even though video captured Garner saying that he couldn't breathe as officer Daniel Pantaleo placed him in a chokehold and wrestled him to the ground, King said that "police had no reason to know that he was in serious condition."

"The fact is if you can't breathe, you can't talk," King said. "If you've ever seen anyone resisting arrest, I've seen it, and it's been white guys, and they're always saying, 'You're breaking my arm, you're choking me, you're doing this,' police hear this all the time."

Sometimes I forget that Peter King is a complete monster.

Yep, King is scum. 

[KCDem]

I don't think it's clear that he was resisting arrest. First of all, he was saying, "Don't touch me." That suggests he was still trying to communicate with the two officers- from his standpoint, it hadn't escalated beyond discussion. There was no attempt on his part to escape or defeat the officers in a physical confrontation. At most, he waved his arms around and turned his body while trying to talk with the officers. This is why, the break in the video is important, IMO. Was it clearly communicated to him, that he was in fact, under arrest, and that failure to comply would result in physical escalation? In other words, a warning? I think part of why this video is so explosive is that it seems to happen with no warning.

I know this may not sound PC, but at minimum, why do low-income neighborhoods seem to have this issue with people mouthing off to cops?

Let me attempt to do this without sounding insensitive, although I know it's difficult but I'm trying to make a point here.  Even an ACLU person would tell someone, even if you feel your constitutional rights are being violated, you save it for the COURTROOM, you don't mouth off on the streets.

Wouldn't it benefit society as a whole if these lower end neighborhoods would understand this?

I haven't seen the grand jury testimony, but my opinion is that he was not in an actual "chokehold" because he was able to speak clearly.

Maybe because my first job was being in Military training it affects me differently, but I get the impression alot of anti-cop liberals never had to get screamed at, take it, and learn to live with saying, "Yes, sir."

Remember, I'm the guy who in 5th grade who didn't want to join three other students who were going to the office to complain about the old substitute teacher after she grabbed a punk student by the ear after multiple warnings to him for interrupting class. My reaction was, "He had it coming, he didn't listen."

Perhaps I'm just really tolerant of authority. It's strange, but I guess that's just me.

If you are so tolerant of authority, start obeying and agreeing with your President.

[Smash255]

Naso seems to finally have some company.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/peter-king-eric-garner_n_6265748.html

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) said on Wednesday that if Eric Garner had been healthier, he would not have died after a police officer placed him in a chokehold.

"If he had not had asthma, and a heart condition and was so obese, almost definitely he would not have died from this," King told CNN's Wolf Blitzer during an interview.

Even though video captured Garner saying that he couldn't breathe as officer Daniel Pantaleo placed him in a chokehold and wrestled him to the ground, King said that "police had no reason to know that he was in serious condition."

"The fact is if you can't breathe, you can't talk," King said. "If you've ever seen anyone resisting arrest, I've seen it, and it's been white guys, and they're always saying, 'You're breaking my arm, you're choking me, you're doing this,' police hear this all the time."

And cops always say "STOP RESISTING" when a guy is on the ground and can't move and one cop is making minced meat out of the guys kidneys by kicking him or whacking him with his baton for "resisting".............it's bullsh**t.

My Congressman is a piece of s***, I would expect nothing less out of him.

[Mr. Illini]

Clearly an unnecessary loss of life, and yet the one indicted is the video recorder.

Unbelieveable. A slap in the face.

[Torie]

I don't claim to know all the facts (and won't be able to know anything more than was on the video until the grand jury transcript is released), but inasmuch as 1) Garner was committing a petty crime (selling cigarettes illegally), and the cops felt the need to handcuff him nevertheless, and when he resisted, shoved him to the ground, and then the cop uses a choke hold that is against police policy and unnecessary to boot, and then Garner says he can't breathe, and the choke hold continues even though there was no life threatening situation here to the cops, then 2) assuming the choke hold was the cause of death, my tentative view is that we have a case of criminal manslaughter here, to wit, gross negligence that showed a reckless disregard for human life that shocks the conscience, and thus rises from a civil tort to the level of a criminal act. So if causation can be shown, it seems to me that we do indeed have a miscarriage of justice here, in a way that is far clearer than the Brian Wilson episode in Ferguson. JMO.  

[© tweed]

If there's one good thing the last few months have done, it's that people are outraged again. Does anyone doubt that if this had happened five years ago it wouldn't have made it past the local news?

Even if "justice" isn't done in this case, the storm of national outrage leads me to suspect that there is a tide turning against the unquestioning acceptance of "tough on crime, put millions more cops on the street, more legal tools for law enforcement" rhetoric that has dominated political discourse since 1980. With violent crime at or near 50 year lows, maybe it's time to ease up on the militarization of police and the amazing legal leeway they have?

the "outrage" combined with the advances made in drug liberalization are cause for hope, yes.  the problem is that the system is designed to carry x number of offenders.  correctional officers, who are often unionized, are one stumbling block.  we also built a ton of prisons in the 80s: it'll be hard to fill them after decriminalizing drug possession and restoring the 4th Amendment.

[Lief 🗽]

Peter King continues to be a hypocrite piece of sh[inks]t.

[IceSpear]

^Wow, that's just terrible.

[Smash255]

Peter King continues to be a hypocrite piece of sh[inks]t.

My Congressman is pure trash.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Peter King should be arrested for gun running for a banned terrorist organisation.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

They're not right "90% of the time" anyway. That's just made-up nonsense.

They could be right 90% of the time. It's just nowhere near 90% when they killed someone in cold blood.