Ask a Southern American..

[Jake]

No.

All 81 Communist MPs, and 26 Social Democrat MPs were arrested, had gone missing or fled the country when the Enabling Act was voted on. All of the Social Democrats voted no. Link

The vote was 441-94 for the Enabling act Link

Since there were 120 Social Democrats to begin with, that meant that  no one else voted no. Link

Okay, I see the Communists and SPD leaving, I see the distribution of seats, but where in the 2nd document does it say 441-94?

Jfraud, buddy.  My question

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I think it's time to delete this thread now

[Jake]

I think it's time to delete this thread now

No, I want jfraud to answer my question, I wouldn't be suprised if he was lying though.

[opebo]

I think it's time to delete this thread now

Good lord man you've become such a fan of censorship.  If you don't like someone's opinion please just read elsewhere, don't try to stamp it out.

[patrick1]

Hitler used religion and paid it lip-service when it was politically expedient for him to do so.  He was no Christian in personal belief and obviously not in his deeds.  If you review his life and personal letters (not his speeches for an audience) carefully you find that generally he was a secularist/pagan.

What difference does that make patrick?  The point I was making was that Naziism and fascism were political movements that worked well with religion and 'traditional values'.  They had great appeal for religious people who were against communism and socialism.  Whatever Hitler may have supposedly secretly believed is irrelevant to the political movement.

There is an element of truth in what you say but don't call Hitler a good Christian boy and then call it irrelelvant when challenged.

[opebo]

Hitler used religion and paid it lip-service when it was politically expedient for him to do so.  He was no Christian in personal belief and obviously not in his deeds.  If you review his life and personal letters (not his speeches for an audience) carefully you find that generally he was a secularist/pagan.

What difference does that make patrick?  The point I was making was that Naziism and fascism were political movements that worked well with religion and 'traditional values'.  They had great appeal for religious people who were against communism and socialism.  Whatever Hitler may have supposedly secretly believed is irrelevant to the political movement.

There is an element of truth in what you say but don't call Hitler a good Christian boy and then call it irrelelvant when challenged.

Yes, point well taken.  He may have been a political ally of christians, while in fact privately not being a 'good christian boy'.

[patrick1]

Sadly ^that is true.  I refer to Niemoeller who said it best

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”

[opebo]

Sadly ^that is true.  I refer to Niemoeller who said it best

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”

Well I'm taking it a step further than Niemoeller to suggest that most German christians were in fact pleased when the Naziis came for the Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Jews, and Homosexuals.

[patrick1]

Sadly ^that is true.  I refer to Niemoeller who said it best

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”

Well I'm taking it a step further than Niemoeller to suggest that most German christians were in fact pleased when the Naziis came for the Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Jews, and Homosexuals.

I agree.  There was a book several years back called Hitler's Willing Executioners that discusses this very topic.  Good read.  At least the German nation and people have made amends and admitted their crimes--something that the Japanese will never do.

[??????????]

Sadly ^that is true.  I refer to Niemoeller who said it best

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”

Well I'm taking it a step further than Niemoeller to suggest that most German christians were in fact pleased when the Naziis came for the Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Jews, and Homosexuals.

That is just absolute garbage and revisionist history. To say the least.

[opebo]

Sadly ^that is true.  I refer to Niemoeller who said it best

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”

Well I'm taking it a step further than Niemoeller to suggest that most German christians were in fact pleased when the Naziis came for the Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Jews, and Homosexuals.

That is just absolute garbage and revisionist history. To say the least.

Not at all.  History was written by the victors after WWII, and we got the American version.  Naturally that one glossed over the  Nazi connections of christian churches and private business, both of whom were gleeful at a party coming to power that would destroy the socialists, unions, homosexuals, etc. 

The reality of course is that Naziism was a somewhat radical reactionary movement based on the 'traditional values' coalition of christian religion and private business.  Sound familar?  They were outraged by Weimar liberalism, somewhat like many here are outraged by the 1960's.  You get the idea.

[AuH2O]

Of course National Socialism is a traditionalist movement. But Hitler despised Christianity and the German people didn't really want to fight a world war, either.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

No.

All 81 Communist MPs, and 26 Social Democrat MPs were arrested, had gone missing or fled the country when the Enabling Act was voted on. All of the Social Democrats voted no. Link

The vote was 441-94 for the Enabling act Link

Since there were 120 Social Democrats to begin with, that meant that  no one else voted no. Link

Okay, I see the Communists and SPD leaving, I see the distribution of seats, but where in the 2nd document does it say 441-94?

From the 1st link:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

From the 2nd link:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I think it's time to delete this thread now

No, I want jfraud to answer my question, I wouldn't be suprised if he was lying though.

Two of the 3 links say it was a 441-94 vote. The third says something about 444-94, which I think means 3 more MPs would have voted yes if they were present.

If you had actually spent half a second searching for 441 in the links, you would't have to say that I might be lying.

[opebo]

Of course National Socialism is a traditionalist movement. But Hitler despised Christianity and the German people didn't really want to fight a world war, either.

Who cares if Hitler despised christianity in secret?  The point is it was one of the pillars of his political movement.  Religion/traditional culture,  patriotism/militarism, and Capital.  Sound familiar?

[AuH2O]

Traditionalism is not the same as religion. Actually in most respects they are quite opposed.

If you believe Jesus is about to return to Earth, who cares about the German nation?

[opebo]

Traditionalism is not the same as religion. Actually in most respects they are quite opposed.

If you believe Jesus is about to return to Earth, who cares about the German nation?

Virtually all religious operate as if the material world will continue, regardless of their more laughable professed beliefs.

Look at the american religious - they take the trouble to hate homosexuals and vote for theocracy even though they're about to be taken away on Jesus' spaceship.

[Colin]

How long until the South rises again? Southerners seem adamant about the South rising again but it hasn't seem to risen yet.

[minionofmidas]

I'm pretty sure that Heinrich Brüning (Zentrum, chancellor 1930-2) voted against. I'd guess some SPD members were not present.
And IIRC the Federal Republic of Germany's first president Theodor Heuss (DVP at the time, later FDP) voted for it.

[minionofmidas]

Just checked on Brüning etc.
There was a caucus debate and vote. Brüning argued and voted against it there, but was defeated. He did vote yes in Parliament.

[Ebowed]

One church that *really* was suppressed and prosecuted in Nazi Germany, though I haven*t got the slightest clue as to why, is Jehova's Witnesses.

Because they don't do allegiances and they don't become soldiers.  Hitler doesn't want people going around in his country when they won't fight the Aryan-haters and salute his image.  Although whether or not they're a legit "church" is debatable.

[Peter]

I think it's time to delete this thread now

Its actually become an International Discussion, so I'm going to leave it be for now.

As for Opebo, whilst I would I prefer he doesn't try to provoke angry reactions as he appears to be doing, I won't get too involved unless he starts being offensive.

[AuH2O]

opebo, start being offensive? Virtually every post of his is offensive. I don't much care what some ex-pat pedophile thinks, but certainly he's never contributed actual substance to the forum, and never will.

[angus]

I think it's time to delete this thread now

agreed.  I still haven't an answer to what I thought was a serious Ask A Southerner question.  Guess I'll just drive along US90 till I find a nice quiet spot. 

(Bell:  assume I'm flying into Miami from Mexico City, and renting a car in Miami and driving north.  Thus it becomes an international discussion question.)

[minionofmidas]

Yeah, I didn't get an answer to my international genuine Southern part of the Americas question, ie:

Why are Peruanos called Peruvians in English?