Ask a Southern American..

[minionofmidas]

And as this thread now includes some International discussion stuff, there's no need to delete or move it, right?

[??????????]

And as this thread now includes some International discussion stuff, there's no need to delete or move it, right?

The Fuhrer will probably delete it anyhow.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What a southern bastard that Dave Leip is

Indeed. Upstate NY and suburban Boston are so Southern

[minionofmidas]

What a southern bastard that Dave Leip is

Indeed. Upstate NY and suburban Boston are so Southern

It's called South East Canada.

[Peter]

And as this thread now includes some International discussion stuff, there's no need to delete or move it, right?

The Fuhrer will probably delete it anyhow.

Put up or shut up: Go to Dave on the Atlas board and complain or stop engaging in personal attacks against me.

[minionofmidas]

And as this thread now includes some International discussion stuff, there's no need to delete or move it, right?

The Fuhrer will probably delete it anyhow.

Put up or shut up: Go to Dave on the Atlas board and complain or stop engaging in personal attacks against me.

That line was pretty crass...but funny anyhow.

[Peter]

That line was pretty crass...but funny anyhow.

Whose line?

[??????????]

And as this thread now includes some International discussion stuff, there's no need to delete or move it, right?

The Fuhrer will probably delete it anyhow.

Put up or shut up: Go to Dave on the Atlas board and complain or stop engaging in personal attacks against me.

Ja Kommandant!!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I think it's time to put the kettle on now...

[minionofmidas]

That line was pretty crass...but funny anyhow.

Whose line?

States'. Not yours, of course, that was neither the one nor the other.

[J.R. Brown]

I'm thinking of taking a road trip through the South this summer, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Maybe Georgia if I don't run out of money.
Are there any particular sites that you think I should visit that would give me a good sense of what it means to be a southerner?

[??????????]

I'm thinking of taking a road trip through the South this summer, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Maybe Georgia if I don't run out of money.
Are there any particular sites that you think I should visit that would give me a good sense of what it means to be a southerner?

Go to Tennessee and visit the Shiloh battleground. Go to Chickamauga, GA. Both very solemn places.

[opebo]

I'm thinking of taking a road trip through the South this summer, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Maybe Georgia if I don't run out of money.
Are there any particular sites that you think I should visit that would give me a good sense of what it means to be a southerner?

Go in the late autumn or early spring.. its awfully hot down there in the summertime.

[dazzleman]

Speaking of the holocaust, Hitler was a good christian boy, and Naziism was quite comfortable with German christianity and vice versa.  It was a movement towards 'traditional German values' - sounds familiar eh?

Actually, that's not true at all.  The Nazis suppressed the Christian churches, though they didn't seek to murder all Christians as they did the Jews.  Their goal was to have a state in which Nazism was worshipped as a religion.  They did not do what they did in the name of Christianity.

[opebo]

Speaking of the holocaust, Hitler was a good christian boy, and Naziism was quite comfortable with German christianity and vice versa.  It was a movement towards 'traditional German values' - sounds familiar eh?

Actually, that's not true at all.  The Nazis suppressed the Christian churches, though they didn't seek to murder all Christians as they did the Jews.  Their goal was to have a state in which Nazism was worshipped as a religion.  They did not do what they did in the name of Christianity.

So goes the story you were taught in American schools.  The Nazis and the christian churches were quite cozy and comfortable with one anther.  It was essentially a nationalistic 'traditional values' movement. 

[??????????]

Speaking of the holocaust, Hitler was a good christian boy, and Naziism was quite comfortable with German christianity and vice versa.  It was a movement towards 'traditional German values' - sounds familiar eh?

Actually, that's not true at all.  The Nazis suppressed the Christian churches, though they didn't seek to murder all Christians as they did the Jews.  Their goal was to have a state in which Nazism was worshipped as a religion.  They did not do what they did in the name of Christianity.

So goes the story you were taught in American schools.  The Nazis and the christian churches were quite cozy and comfortable with one anther.  It was essentially a nationalistic 'traditional values' movement. 

Links? Sources? Or are you just talking out of your arse again?

[dazzleman]

Speaking of the holocaust, Hitler was a good christian boy, and Naziism was quite comfortable with German christianity and vice versa.  It was a movement towards 'traditional German values' - sounds familiar eh?

Actually, that's not true at all.  The Nazis suppressed the Christian churches, though they didn't seek to murder all Christians as they did the Jews.  Their goal was to have a state in which Nazism was worshipped as a religion.  They did not do what they did in the name of Christianity.

So goes the story you were taught in American schools.  The Nazis and the christian churches were quite cozy and comfortable with one anther.  It was essentially a nationalistic 'traditional values' movement. 

Your sense of perspective on these issues is simply awe-inspiring....

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

What the f**ck are you talking about? Catholics were oppressed in Nazi Germany. In churches, the Bible was banned and replaced by Mein Kampf. You are truly ignorant.

A Catholic centrist party helped bring Hitler to power. Only the Communists and Social Democrats opposed Hitler.

The Zentrum split on the vote over the Ermächtigungsgesetz (which I guess you're referring to), actually. A clear majority of its MPs voted in favor, though.

No.

All 81 Communist MPs, and 26 Social Democrat MPs were arrested, had gone missing or fled the country when the Enabling Act was voted on. All of the Social Democrats voted no. Link

The vote was 441-94 for the Enabling act Link

Since there were 120 Social Democrats to begin with, that meant that  no one else voted no. Link

Morral of the story: You stand with the Communists, the Socialists, or Hitler.

[J. J.]

What a southern bastard that Dave Leip is

Indeed. Upstate NY and suburban Boston are so Southern

Do they ask if you want grits with your clam chowder?

[Jake]

No.

All 81 Communist MPs, and 26 Social Democrat MPs were arrested, had gone missing or fled the country when the Enabling Act was voted on. All of the Social Democrats voted no. Link

The vote was 441-94 for the Enabling act Link

Since there were 120 Social Democrats to begin with, that meant that  no one else voted no. Link

Okay, I see the Communists and SPD leaving, I see the distribution of seats, but where in the 2nd document does it say 441-94?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Hitler was a good christian boy, and

Absolute b*llocks

[opebo]

Quotes from Hitler:

    Hitler’s speeches and proclamations, even more clearly, reveal his faith and feelings toward a Christianized Germany.  Nazism presents an embarrassment to Christianity and demonstrates the danger of their faith So they try to pin him on other theistic views.  The following words from Hitler show his disdain for atheism, and pagan cults, and reveal the strength of his Christian feelings:

    “National Socialism is not a cult-movement-- a movement for worship; it is exclusively a ‘volkic’ political doctrine based upon racial principles.  In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship... We will not allow mystically- minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement.  Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else-- in any case something which has nothing to do with us.  At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief.  But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will-- not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord…  Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed.  Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men.”  -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept.1938.  [Christians have always accused Hitler of believing in pagan cult mythology. What is written here clearly expresses his stand against cults.]

    “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith.  We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism.  Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy.  The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]

    Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:

    "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.  It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth!  was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.  In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders.  How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison.  To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross.  As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…  And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."  –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed.  The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

    "Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars.  Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is quite obvious here that Hitler is referring to destructing the Judaism alters on which Christianity was founded.)

    "The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew."  -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the Jew came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this “tradition” up until the 20th century.)

    "With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is common in war for one race to rape another so that they can “defile” the race and assimilate their own.  Hitler speaks about this very tactic here.)     

    “The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself.  His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine.  Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence.  In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present- day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.”–Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

    "…the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion."  -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (See Genesis Chapter 3 where humankind is cast from Eden for their sins.  Hitler compares this to the need to exterminate the Jews for their sin against Christ.)

    “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”  –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

    “The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.”  –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (This quote is very interesting for it disperses the idea that Hitler raged war due to being an Aryan supremacist. He states quite clearly that he has a problem with Jews for their belief not race.  That is why many German Jews died in WW2 regardless of their Aryan nationality.)

“Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success.  This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain.”  –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (Here Hitler is admitting that his war against the Jews were so successful because of his strong Christian Spirituality.)

Quotes from Other Nazis about Hitler and Religion:

    "Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Gobbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church, he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide."  (Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer page 95-96)

[opebo]

You right wingers, christians, and 'traditional values' types are in denial that Hitler was one of your own.

A hell of a lot more than Stalin or Mao was one of our own on the liberal side.

 

[patrick1]

Hitler used religion and paid it lip-service when it was politically expedient for him to do so.  He was no Christian in personal belief and obviously not in his deeds.  If you review his life and personal letters (not his speeches for an audience) carefully you find that generally he was a secularist/pagan.

[opebo]

Hitler used religion and paid it lip-service when it was politically expedient for him to do so.  He was no Christian in personal belief and obviously not in his deeds.  If you review his life and personal letters (not his speeches for an audience) carefully you find that generally he was a secularist/pagan.

What difference does that make patrick?  The point I was making was that Naziism and fascism were political movements that worked well with religion and 'traditional values'.  They had great appeal for religious people who were against communism and socialism.  Whatever Hitler may have supposedly secretly believed is irrelevant to the political movement.