Survey Atlasia: April Presidential Approval Rating

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lots of good points made here today, and as much as I'd like to respond to all of them, I'm just too lazy right now.

I have been doing my job and being as active as possible but it seems to me that people have lost their interest in the Game. The Israel-Palestine issue is beloved by Atlasian Left, i gave my heart to build a logical and consistent peace proccess and, yet, we have not seen any movement from anyone in Atlasia rather than a Congratulations coming from Adam, another from President Duke and a PM from Senator Lumine! A Historical Deal was signed and the Labor Party and many other individuals that have the creation of Palestine as their sole and pet Foreign Policy issue haven't given a word. I'm not telling anyone to love what I'm writting and on what I'm working but when I create a 7 pages Word Document about the whole Peace Agreement, I was considering that more people would like to discuss it, give their own opinion and show what they thought about it... We are in a terrible activity crisis and I hope that we can be revived one day!

Superique, people reading and paying attention to the gm/event threads has long been a problem.  One piece of advice I can give:  make your posts shorter, and people will be more likely to read them.  It's no guarantee, but it will help.

My posts tend to be shorter but this time was necessary to be much longer. We ought to understand exactly what is happening. It's a significant divergence from Real Life Situation! Anyway, I will try to post shorter things but let there be no doubt that I don't like doing this...

Shua makes a good point. To be honest, I really wish I had been able to keep a better spirit about the GM gig when I returned, but the combination of people not paying attention to my details and the refuting of stories just did it in for me. It's sad, but people in this game don't really deserve complex story-lines or detailed events, because they don't read them.

If you and Polnut were right, then after five years of seeking a GM arrangement that could make complex story lines work, then my history of seeing the failures from Purple State until you, should have made me the first to doubt the feasibility, not you. The same should have dictated that I would have supported abolishing the SoIA, I didnt; making the Vice President a Senator, hell no; embraced a partisan Senate administration, hilarious; and have joined the NMAMist in seeking the destruction of Regions, ROTFLOL. If I think it can work I seek to make it work. Does anybody think the VP has nothing to do now? Does anyone still think the SoIA is a position no one can make work?

Young people think their parents are stupid, Retirees think their time has past. Thats natural, I still think some of the generation preceding me are foolish and for a long time railed against old timers who treat this place as their dumping ground they don't take seriously anymore. As a historian by hobby, I know the past can and should guide the present and thus I don't desire to perpetuate the cycle of frustration like some who seem to, whether they realize or not, are just createing the next generation of discouraged players who will do likewise.

[Adam Griffin]

Lots of good points made here today, and as much as I'd like to respond to all of them, I'm just too lazy right now.

I have been doing my job and being as active as possible but it seems to me that people have lost their interest in the Game. The Israel-Palestine issue is beloved by Atlasian Left, i gave my heart to build a logical and consistent peace proccess and, yet, we have not seen any movement from anyone in Atlasia rather than a Congratulations coming from Adam, another from President Duke and a PM from Senator Lumine! A Historical Deal was signed and the Labor Party and many other individuals that have the creation of Palestine as their sole and pet Foreign Policy issue haven't given a word. I'm not telling anyone to love what I'm writting and on what I'm working but when I create a 7 pages Word Document about the whole Peace Agreement, I was considering that more people would like to discuss it, give their own opinion and show what they thought about it... We are in a terrible activity crisis and I hope that we can be revived one day!

Superique, people reading and paying attention to the gm/event threads has long been a problem.  One piece of advice I can give:  make your posts shorter, and people will be more likely to read them.  It's no guarantee, but it will help.

My posts tend to be shorter but this time was necessary to be much longer. We ought to understand exactly what is happening. It's a significant divergence from Real Life Situation! Anyway, I will try to post shorter things but let there be no doubt that I don't like doing this...

Shua makes a good point. To be honest, I really wish I had been able to keep a better spirit about the GM gig when I returned, but the combination of people not paying attention to my details and the refuting of stories just did it in for me. It's sad, but people in this game don't really deserve complex story-lines or detailed events, because they don't read them.

If you and Polnut were right, then after five years of seeking a GM arrangement that could make complex story lines work, then my history of seeing the failures from Purple State until you, should have made me the first to doubt the feasibility, not you. The same should have dictated that I would have supported abolishing the SoIA, I didnt; making the Vice President a Senator, hell no; embraced a partisan Senate administration, hilarious; and have joined the NMAMist in seeking the destruction of Regions, ROTFLOL. If I think it can work I seek to make it work. Does anybody think the VP has nothing to do now? Does anyone still think the SoIA is a position no one can make work?

Young people think their parents are stupid, Retirees think their time has past. Thats natural, I still think some of the generation preceding me are foolish and for a long time railed against old timers who treat this place as their dumping ground they don't take seriously anymore. As a historian by hobby, I know the past can and should guide the present and thus I don't desire to perpetuate the cycle of frustration like some who seem to, whether they realize or not, are just createing the next generation of discouraged players who will do likewise.

Well then congratulations, I suppose? I didn't know we were arguing here.

[ZuWo]

It's good to have these discussions, they're long overdue.

What I was getting at with my earlier post is quite simple: when I vote for Federalists, Democratic-Republicans, right-leaning members of the People's Party or center-right independents and these candidates are elected I expect them to introduce and vote for legislation that is clearly distinguishable from the political goals of even the most moderate Labor Senator. The fact that this has almost never been the case during the last months even though the center-right has been in control of the presidency, vice-presidency and the Senate is - and I'm sorry to say it this way - frankly inexcusable in my opinion. 

The current activity issues in the Mideast are of an entirely different nature, though. For some reasons all of the regional officeholders, conservatives, libertarians and left-wingers, have decided to call it a day and don't seem to be interested in changing anything. This is depressing.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Lots of good points made here today, and as much as I'd like to respond to all of them, I'm just too lazy right now.

I have been doing my job and being as active as possible but it seems to me that people have lost their interest in the Game. The Israel-Palestine issue is beloved by Atlasian Left, i gave my heart to build a logical and consistent peace proccess and, yet, we have not seen any movement from anyone in Atlasia rather than a Congratulations coming from Adam, another from President Duke and a PM from Senator Lumine! A Historical Deal was signed and the Labor Party and many other individuals that have the creation of Palestine as their sole and pet Foreign Policy issue haven't given a word. I'm not telling anyone to love what I'm writting and on what I'm working but when I create a 7 pages Word Document about the whole Peace Agreement, I was considering that more people would like to discuss it, give their own opinion and show what they thought about it... We are in a terrible activity crisis and I hope that we can be revived one day!

Superique, people reading and paying attention to the gm/event threads has long been a problem.  One piece of advice I can give:  make your posts shorter, and people will be more likely to read them.  It's no guarantee, but it will help.

My posts tend to be shorter but this time was necessary to be much longer. We ought to understand exactly what is happening. It's a significant divergence from Real Life Situation! Anyway, I will try to post shorter things but let there be no doubt that I don't like doing this...

Shua makes a good point. To be honest, I really wish I had been able to keep a better spirit about the GM gig when I returned, but the combination of people not paying attention to my details and the refuting of stories just did it in for me. It's sad, but people in this game don't really deserve complex story-lines or detailed events, because they don't read them.

If you and Polnut were right, then after five years of seeking a GM arrangement that could make complex story lines work, then my history of seeing the failures from Purple State until you, should have made me the first to doubt the feasibility, not you. The same should have dictated that I would have supported abolishing the SoIA, I didnt; making the Vice President a Senator, hell no; embraced a partisan Senate administration, hilarious; and have joined the NMAMist in seeking the destruction of Regions, ROTFLOL. If I think it can work I seek to make it work. Does anybody think the VP has nothing to do now? Does anyone still think the SoIA is a position no one can make work?

Young people think their parents are stupid, Retirees think their time has past. Thats natural, I still think some of the generation preceding me are foolish and for a long time railed against old timers who treat this place as their dumping ground they don't take seriously anymore. As a historian by hobby, I know the past can and should guide the present and thus I don't desire to perpetuate the cycle of frustration like some who seem to, whether they realize or not, are just createing the next generation of discouraged players who will do likewise.

Well then congratulations, I suppose? I didn't know we were arguing here.

It was more a response to Polnut, but he stated agreemnt with you on the matter at hand so I just lumped you together. Your post was merely an exmaple I wanted to use to highlight my point regarding the notion he posited, kind of like I did referencing Hagrid previously.

You want to change that? I am up for anything that will make people see this thread more.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's good to have these discussions, they're long overdue.

What I was getting at with my earlier post is quite simple: when I vote for Federalists, Democratic-Republicans, right-leaning members of the People's Party or center-right independents and these candidates are elected I expect them to introduce and vote for legislation that is clearly distinguishable from the political goals of even the most moderate Labor Senator. The fact that this has almost never been the case during the last months even though the center-right has been in control of the presidency, vice-presidency and the Senate is - and I'm sorry to say it this way - frankly inexcusable in my opinion.  

First off, the right of center did not have a majority in the Senate until January when shua succeeded Napoleon. Prior to that there were four Laborites (bore, Tyrion, TNF and Gass) plus Napoleon and Xahar.

This reminds much of the people who said that the GOP had a complete control for six years, when it was only four since the Dems had the Seante for the first two years.

Duke waited too long to put forth a domestic agenda and even he regrets signing off on the FLSA minimum wage schedule. But no sooner did he get a sympathetic majority, then he faced a rightist rebellion and had to hue to the center to get reelected. His tax and that first healthcare bill got delayed once MAtt's activity began to slide more. Tmth's activity declined in early February and then he resigned from both the Senate and the Chairmanship, forcing sort of a reset on such efforts that he was engaged in party agenda wise beginning in late February, as well as to discourage pursuing anything that couldn't get Labor votes (since they had a 5-4 advantage w/o Tmth until the special) not to mention anything that could hinder Lumine's election or facilitate Adam winning lest we lose that majority. I then lost a relative in mid March and was hindered by that.

I have heard it stated from some that Duke never had a shot in his first term, and it wouldn't be innaccurate to state that. THis is what I meant when I said many in the center think the rightists have shot themselves in the foot. From a far left Senate the first two months to a Conservative primary campaign and general election challenger, such is clearly the case.

You knew the Senate situation well, afterwall it was part and parcel to the debate over consolidation and also you had far more access to Federalist circles as Mideast Chair then Duke who was an Independent at the time.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I disagree

I don't want to suggest the president is responsible, or can fix the issue himself. No president can pull the answers out of a hat. I know that too well.

I do agree that many of the people of the past who should have left by now (myself included) are still here, which doesn't create the cycle that keeps this place fresh. But Atlasia still recycles, but it doesn't quite come out right. The same characters seem to get re-cast in different roles and sometimes with different personalities (you know who you are).

But I do wonder what happens if the old-fogeys leave... will the place turn even more tribal.

The first paragraph and the second paragraph are countradictory. If one man cannot do it all, it implies by necessity that there are numerous rolls to fill. Large numbers of those people from the 2012 -2013 era have cycled out, but few have cycled in to replace them. The notion that thep resence of ever shrinking percentage of olds is hindering recycling doesn't comport with the fact that so many have left and still were not "replaced" for lack of a less harsh term.

Worse still, I find the complete lack of perspective that can be provided by those people and seem to not have much value placed on it, is an essential part that steer Atlasia clear of a 2008. Bold action is necessary to drive the game, but bold actions can likewise breed discouragement and lead to apathy and abandonment by large numbers who are then in turn, if history is any kind, not replaced at a high enough rate. You thus have an ever downard spiral and then yes, the end result is rather tribal.

The notion that I am lacking in creativity, boldness or aggressive persistence by virtue of my long presence, just flies in the face of facts. It also ignores bgwah's sheer audacity as late as a full seven years after he joined.

I'm sorry but you must have completely misinterpreted what I said. I never said people like us have no role or lack in creativity, just that there's a risk with people hanging around for so long - especially when those who are new have little to no understanding or knowledge of what led us to where we are.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

It definitely creates a log jam at the top for those looking to advance when the same people remain in control, that is really not up for debate.

At the end of the day, people have to want to play the game and put the work into it to make themselves a success. We just lack a lot of new people wanting to do that - at least in sufficient numbers to replace those who have left in the last few months.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I disagree

I don't want to suggest the president is responsible, or can fix the issue himself. No president can pull the answers out of a hat. I know that too well.

I do agree that many of the people of the past who should have left by now (myself included) are still here, which doesn't create the cycle that keeps this place fresh. But Atlasia still recycles, but it doesn't quite come out right. The same characters seem to get re-cast in different roles and sometimes with different personalities (you know who you are).

But I do wonder what happens if the old-fogeys leave... will the place turn even more tribal.

The first paragraph and the second paragraph are countradictory. If one man cannot do it all, it implies by necessity that there are numerous rolls to fill. Large numbers of those people from the 2012 -2013 era have cycled out, but few have cycled in to replace them. The notion that thep resence of ever shrinking percentage of olds is hindering recycling doesn't comport with the fact that so many have left and still were not "replaced" for lack of a less harsh term.

Worse still, I find the complete lack of perspective that can be provided by those people and seem to not have much value placed on it, is an essential part that steer Atlasia clear of a 2008. Bold action is necessary to drive the game, but bold actions can likewise breed discouragement and lead to apathy and abandonment by large numbers who are then in turn, if history is any kind, not replaced at a high enough rate. You thus have an ever downard spiral and then yes, the end result is rather tribal.

The notion that I am lacking in creativity, boldness or aggressive persistence by virtue of my long presence, just flies in the face of facts. It also ignores bgwah's sheer audacity as late as a full seven years after he joined.

I'm sorry but you must have completely misinterpreted what I said. I never said people like us have no role or lack in creativity, just that there's a risk with people hanging around for so long - especially when those who are new have little to no understanding or knowledge of what led us to where we are.

I don't get the problem. If the issue at hand is relevant, the few older ones can provide insight.

Also the situation can just as easily be reversed. IF people don't know that something was one possible, they might not contemplate the idea. In my view that is what has happened with the media presence in that the people who used to maintain them are gone, fewer have stpped up to replace them and newer folks coming in have little concept of the role played by such.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It definitely creates a log jam at the top for those looking to advance when the same people remain in control, that is really not up for debate.

At the end of the day, people have to want to play the game and put the work into it to make themselves a success. We just lack a lot of new people wanting to do that - at least in sufficient numbers to replace those who have left in the last few months.

Yet the second paragraph reduces the extent to which the first paragraph is true, meaning there are other factors that are far mroe at play. That includes the strengh of the region's politics for instance as the constant cylcing of candidates in the ME has often led to many whose activity died away or were inactive to begin with. The Pacific is another example as well. If there was a substantial hindering caused by the said log jam, you would have seen a torrent of activity players streaming through the gap like water to replace them.

You yourself were highly critical of the leadership on the right in 2012. Did abolishing the RPP and sidelining the two of us leadership wise clear the way for newer and better? If it did, why did you come back just nine months later to create the TPP?

You have to provide opportunities for advancement and nuture new members, but just clearing out all the old people isn't going to do anything to solve the problem. Otherwise you never would have created the TPP in 2012 or ran for President in 2013, each predicated on critiques of the field of leadership and candidates presented prior to those events.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

It definitely creates a log jam at the top for those looking to advance when the same people remain in control, that is really not up for debate.

At the end of the day, people have to want to play the game and put the work into it to make themselves a success. We just lack a lot of new people wanting to do that - at least in sufficient numbers to replace those who have left in the last few months.

Yet the second paragraph reduces the extent to which the first paragraph is true, meaning there are other factors that are far mroe at play. That includes the strengh of the region's politics for instance as the constant cylcing of candidates in the ME has often led to many whose activity died away or were inactive to begin with. The Pacific is another example as well. If there was a substantial hindering caused by the said log jam, you would have seen a torrent of activity players streaming through the gap like water to replace them.

You yourself were highly critical of the leadership on the right in 2012. Did abolishing the RPP and sidelining the two of us leadership wise clear the way for newer and better? If it did, why did you come back just nine months later to create the TPP?

You have to provide opportunities for advancement and nuture new members, but just clearing out all the old people isn't going to do anything to solve the problem. Otherwise you never would have created the TPP in 2012 or ran for President in 2013, each predicated on critiques of the field of leadership and candidates presented prior to those events.

I've always believed dissolution was not a net-positive for the game because it created a mass exodus of players, many of them because they were "leaders" of the old guard and they had to leave to "save the game." We sort of cut off the head without having a plan for anything else. Short term, we did see a spike in activity. That lasted about 6 months or so when we basically had a 1 party regime that won all of the elections by huge margins, and they did that not really because of great leadership, but because their ideology appealed to 80% of the people in the game, and it had the membership of the big names of the game that stuck around post-dissolution.

Our current predicament stems from many forces that we cannot help. A lot of the leaders of the right have left this game for reasons totally unrelated to the game itself - personal issues, lack of interest in real life politics, school, etc. I could go on, but I won't. Perhaps it's a perfect storm, perhaps not. But a lot of the troubles are of no fault to any of us here. Often times, life just takes us away. No "policy" can stop that. You just have to have new people in place to take the reigns.

[Napoleon]

It's good to have these discussions, they're long overdue.

What I was getting at with my earlier post is quite simple: when I vote for Federalists, Democratic-Republicans, right-leaning members of the People's Party or center-right independents and these candidates are elected I expect them to introduce and vote for legislation that is clearly distinguishable from the political goals of even the most moderate Labor Senator. The fact that this has almost never been the case during the last months even though the center-right has been in control of the presidency, vice-presidency and the Senate is - and I'm sorry to say it this way - frankly inexcusable in my opinion. 

First off, the right of center did not have a majority in the Senate until January when shua succeeded Napoleon. Prior to that there were four Laborites (bore, Tyrion, TNF and Gass) plus Napoleon and Xahar.

This reminds much of the people who said that the GOP had a complete control for six years, when it was only four since the Dems had the Seante for the first two years.

Duke waited too long to put forth a domestic agenda and even he regrets signing off on the FLSA minimum wage schedule. But no sooner did he get a sympathetic majority, then he faced a rightist rebellion and had to hue to the center to get reelected. His tax and that first healthcare bill got delayed once MAtt's activity began to slide more. Tmth's activity declined in early February and then he resigned from both the Senate and the Chairmanship, forcing sort of a reset on such efforts that he was engaged in party agenda wise beginning in late February, as well as to discourage pursuing anything that couldn't get Labor votes (since they had a 5-4 advantage w/o Tmth until the special) not to mention anything that could hinder Lumine's election or facilitate Adam winning lest we lose that majority. I then lost a relative in mid March and was hindered by that.

I have heard it stated from some that Duke never had a shot in his first term, and it wouldn't be innaccurate to state that. THis is what I meant when I said many in the center think the rightists have shot themselves in the foot. From a far left Senate the first two months to a Conservative primary campaign and general election challenger, such is clearly the case.

You knew the Senate situation well, afterwall it was part and parcel to the debate over consolidation and also you had far more access to Federalist circles as Mideast Chair then Duke who was an Independent at the time.

Duke didn't reach out to the senate very well so I would say that's a large part of it. If you are uninterested in working with the senate and only want to see "your guys" there, nothing will get done.Of course, Duke wasn't the only one with that attitude at that time. Still I was there and I'm not sure why I should give him credit for something like that. When I was President I made a point to speak with each Senator and even people like TJ that I never agreed with, I would say hey what do you think of this?

And I've actually been inaccurate regarding my opinions. Its not the entire game that's boring, mostly just the federal government/Senate (which I've said is the core of the game). At the regional level we have a good group of governors maintaining involvement and I'm very pleased with the state of the Northeast for example.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's good to have these discussions, they're long overdue.

What I was getting at with my earlier post is quite simple: when I vote for Federalists, Democratic-Republicans, right-leaning members of the People's Party or center-right independents and these candidates are elected I expect them to introduce and vote for legislation that is clearly distinguishable from the political goals of even the most moderate Labor Senator. The fact that this has almost never been the case during the last months even though the center-right has been in control of the presidency, vice-presidency and the Senate is - and I'm sorry to say it this way - frankly inexcusable in my opinion. 

First off, the right of center did not have a majority in the Senate until January when shua succeeded Napoleon. Prior to that there were four Laborites (bore, Tyrion, TNF and Gass) plus Napoleon and Xahar.

This reminds much of the people who said that the GOP had a complete control for six years, when it was only four since the Dems had the Seante for the first two years.

Duke waited too long to put forth a domestic agenda and even he regrets signing off on the FLSA minimum wage schedule. But no sooner did he get a sympathetic majority, then he faced a rightist rebellion and had to hue to the center to get reelected. His tax and that first healthcare bill got delayed once MAtt's activity began to slide more. Tmth's activity declined in early February and then he resigned from both the Senate and the Chairmanship, forcing sort of a reset on such efforts that he was engaged in party agenda wise beginning in late February, as well as to discourage pursuing anything that couldn't get Labor votes (since they had a 5-4 advantage w/o Tmth until the special) not to mention anything that could hinder Lumine's election or facilitate Adam winning lest we lose that majority. I then lost a relative in mid March and was hindered by that.

I have heard it stated from some that Duke never had a shot in his first term, and it wouldn't be innaccurate to state that. THis is what I meant when I said many in the center think the rightists have shot themselves in the foot. From a far left Senate the first two months to a Conservative primary campaign and general election challenger, such is clearly the case.

You knew the Senate situation well, afterwall it was part and parcel to the debate over consolidation and also you had far more access to Federalist circles as Mideast Chair then Duke who was an Independent at the time.

Duke didn't reach out to the senate very well so I would say that's a large part of it. If you are uninterested in working with the senate and only want to see "your guys" there, nothing will get done.Of course, Duke wasn't the only one with that attitude at that time. Still I was there and I'm not sure why I should give him credit for something like that. When I was President I made a point to speak with each Senator and even people like TJ that I never agreed with, I would say hey what do you think of this?

And I've actually been inaccurate regarding my opinions. Its not the entire game that's boring, mostly just the federal government/Senate (which I've said is the core of the game). At the regional level we have a good group of governors maintaining involvement and I'm very pleased with the state of the Northeast for example.

Well keep in mind what I am talking about. The complaint was from a conservative that there was no conservative results on domestic and economic policy. Duke did work with members ofo ther parties on numerous issues, but anything of a conservative tilt on economic and domestic policy of the like Zuwo was deisring probably would not be something you would have been interested in. Call it a hunch. Was it a mistake not to try on his part, probably so, but thats a style thing I think.

The NE is doing good I agree. I think that there is a generalized lack of interest though and a disconnect wtih what the Senate is doing, in spiteo f the fact that the discourse is dominated by some pretty stark divides on numerous issues like labor policy, healthcare, minimum wage and boosting job creation. A lot of that is few actually even pay attention to what the Senate is doing, and a part of that is because there is no media. Another thing is that Atlasia hasn't been focused on domestic issues for some time which probably underlies the situation some as well.