Ukraine Crisis

[muon2]

The interesting poll in Crimea would be three choices: autonomous state in Ukraine, autonomous state in Russia, or full independence.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The interesting poll in Crimea would be three choices: autonomous state in Ukraine, autonomous state in Russia, or full independence.

Hm, in the event of Crimea becoming a part of Russia I assume they would want a Republic status. Would be unusual, given native Russian population dominating here, as Republic status is pretty much reserved for ethnic regions (like Tatarstan, Chechnya, etc.)

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I checked, the United States gave no military guarantees to Ukraine whatsoever. Budapest Manifesto? The Manifesto does not carry military obligations. It does carry diplomatic ones and the U.S., as well as the EU states, are engaged in diplomacy.

Ag was referring to Japan and South Korea. There's no comparison, as there are clear military treaties in place.

Either the invading Russian troops get bombed by US, UK (and, hopefully, the rest of the NATO troops)

Now this is troubling. Not only you're preaching doom, you seem to look forward this eagerly. Bravo, a war of nuclear powers is surely going to help Ukraine and the rest of us.

[Angel of Death]

Live BBC page

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I checked, the United States gave no military guarantees to Ukraine whatsoever. Budapest Manifesto? The Manifesto does not carry military obligations. It does carry diplomatic ones and the U.S., as well as the EU states, are engaged in diplomacy.

Ag was referring to Japan and South Korea. There's no comparison, as there are clear military treaties in place.

Either the invading Russian troops get bombed by US, UK (and, hopefully, the rest of the NATO troops)

Now this is troubling. Not only you're preaching doom, you seem to look forward this eagerly. Bravo, a war of nuclear powers is surely going to help Ukraine and the rest of us.

I've learned recently that ag is a very disturbed person.

[Frodo]

To no one's surprise, Russia has China's backing in its face-down with the West over Ukraine.

Perhaps China has similar designs on its neighbors as it seeks to reclaim the boundaries once held by the Qing Dynasty at its territorial zenith:



Possibly a price for its support? 

[Tetro Kornbluth]

To no one's surprise, Russia has China's backing in its face-down with the West over Ukraine.

Perhaps China has similar designs on its neighbors as it seeks to reclaim the boundaries once held by the Qing Dynasty at its territorial zenith:

Hmm.... all that territory is in former Soviet or Soviet-allied states (except for Taiwan obviously, oh, and a small very likely to be completely uninhabited bit of India/Pakistan).

[Mr. Morden]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/04/world/europe/russias-hand-can-be-seen-in-the-protests.html?_r=0

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[Blue3]

Just read this line: "What's Happening In Crimea Would Be Like France Sending Troops To Quebec."

I think that's a tough analogy, since France doesn't border Quebec.

The analogy ppl keep coming to is Germany with Czechoslovakia in 1938.

The paranoia of any military crisis being the eve of the next Great War is embedded in the American psyche.

Except that in this case this is pretty much a description.

US has treaty obligations here. Either the invading Russian troops get bombed by US, UK (and, hopefully, the rest of the NATO troops), or US treaty obligations are not worth the paper they are written on. If US abandons Ukraine, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan might as well negotiate decent terms of joining China.

Some ridiculous percentage of treaties are ignored, when the time to enforce them occurs.

Also, didn't we also have some treaty with Georgia?

The only treaty that really matters to the United States is NATO. That's all.

[Comrade Funk]

Pressure Putin by destroying the Ruble. Of course, we need the Europeans to join in with sanctions of their own. Hopefully the rumors of a divide in NATO/EU are untrue.

[ag]

The interesting poll in Crimea would be three choices: autonomous state in Ukraine, autonomous state in Russia, or full independence.

Nobody is offering the last two: independence means being part of Russia, and "autonomy" in Russia means having a local guy designated to lick Putin's balls on special occasions.

[ag]

The interesting poll in Crimea would be three choices: autonomous state in Ukraine, autonomous state in Russia, or full independence.

Hm, in the event of Crimea becoming a part of Russia I assume they would want a Republic status. Would be unusual, given native Russian population dominating here, as Republic status is pretty much reserved for ethnic regions (like Tatarstan, Chechnya, etc.)

Some of the Republics have only small native minorities: think Karelia. Tartars and Ukrainians would be sufficient here. But that status means very little these days.

[ag]

I've always considered ag as one of the most reasonable people here. That's why I'm disturbed with him predicting the doomsday.

Russia has just announced at the Security Council that Yanukovich asked for military help (they were unable to produce the living Yanukovich to do this - at his one press conference in Russia, though very nervous, lost, and talking nonsense he never uttered the words). You still wonder why I am preaching doom?

That's your indicator the WWIII is coming?

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I also remember invasion on Czechoslovakia caused a global war. Oh wait.

In 1938 it was the precursor.

[ag]

Russian UN Ambassador says that Yanukovych has written to Putin asking him to use military force in Ukraine. Could be disinformatsiya, but puppets are puppets.

The latest rumor is that, having conveniently produced the letter, Yanukovich died.

[ag]

It is pretty clear that Ukraine will not be defended. They will find some "compromise", that will attempt to give Russia full control, without giving it that name. The Protectorate of Lesser and New Russia will seem like a minor price to pay to avoid the war. Russia will be slightly slapped by sanctions, which will only help Putin establish and maintain the isolation he desires. For a few months everybody will congratulate each other that they preserved peace. Then Putin will ask for seconds. And thirds. And more. I wonder, if Kalwejt wakes up before or after Gdansk?

[Famous Mortimer]

Seek a mental health professional.

[ag]

Seek a mental health professional.

I, actually, live in Mexico. When sh**t hits the fan we will, as usual, send a crappy squadron of poor folk to the Pacific to express our support, and be done with it. It is the rest of you who will need help.

[SPC]

Seek a mental health professional.

I, actually, live in Mexico. When sh**t hits the fan we will, as usual, send a crappy squadron of poor folk to the Pacific to express our support, and be done with it. It is the rest of you who will need help.

Reclaiming a territory that had been part of Russia for over two centuries is a slippery slope to invading the United States?

[Peeperkorn]

It is pretty clear that Ukraine will not be defended. They will find some "compromise", that will attempt to give Russia full control, without giving it that name.

You forget that there are quite a few people that don't want to be a Russian puppy.

[Peeperkorn]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has put trade and investment talks with Russia on hold as a rebuke for Russia's incursion into Ukraine, a United States official said on Monday.

"We have suspended upcoming bilateral trade and investment engagement with the government of Russia that were part of a move toward deeper commercial and trade ties," a spokesman for the Office of the US Trade Representative said.

[ag]

Seek a mental health professional.

I, actually, live in Mexico. When sh**t hits the fan we will, as usual, send a crappy squadron of poor folk to the Pacific to express our support, and be done with it. It is the rest of you who will need help.

Reclaiming a territory that had been part of Russia for over two centuries is a slippery slope to invading the United States?

Hitler never invaded the US, btw. Poland and Czecoslovakia did not get their German minorities by accdent either.

Unlike you I merely understand what is Putin. I know the type. It IS scary.

Un

[ag]

It is pretty clear that Ukraine will not be defended. They will find some "compromise", that will attempt to give Russia full control, without giving it that name.

You forget that there are quite a few people that don't want to be a Russian puppy.

Were there any fewer in Czechoslovakia?

[RogueBeaver]

Russian media outlet with unconfirmed report of what ag said earlier: Yanukovych dead of a heart attack in Rostov. TIME's Shuster reports Ukrainians are telling him Russian APCs are SAM-equipped.

[ag]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has put trade and investment talks with Russia on hold as a rebuke for Russia's incursion into Ukraine, a United States official said on Monday.

"We have suspended upcoming bilateral trade and investment engagement with the government of Russia that were part of a move toward deeper commercial and trade ties," a spokesman for the Office of the US Trade Representative said.

We also threw out Putin's Teddy bear.

[Frodo]

Can Russia be expelled from the World Trade Organization?