Who do you blame more for the shutdown?

[Ogre Mage]

The current Republican Party is a pathetic sham and people should be embarrassed to be associated with it.  Those of us who were around in the 1990s have seen this movie before but these Tea Party fools are too mentally gone to grasp the history.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Republicans, but I don't necessarily view it in a negative way outside of the basic political repercussions. Democrats would have done the same, and will do the same in the future, and I can't say I blame them.

Oh please......

Honestly, this both sides do it crap is getting annoying. No, one side is ing insane and the other isn't and that is all their is to it.

Let me reword your argument in a more simple manner:

MY OPINION IS BETTER THAN YOURS BECAUSE I SAIZ SO. I AM INTELECT AND YOU DUMMY. YOU HATE POORS AND GAYS AND WANT AMERICA TO FAIL.

[Smid]

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

[7,052,770]

Republicans, but I don't necessarily view it in a negative way outside of the basic political repercussions. Democrats would have done the same, and will do the same in the future, and I can't say I blame them.

Oh please......

Honestly, this both sides do it crap is getting annoying. No, one side is ing insane and the other isn't and that is all their is to it.

Let me reword your argument in a more simple manner:

MY OPINION IS BETTER THAN YOURS BECAUSE I SAIZ SO. I AM INTELECT AND YOU DUMMY. YOU HATE POORS AND GAYS AND WANT AMERICA TO FAIL.

Did Democrats pull this crap over the Iraq War or anything else during the Bush years?  No?

Then how can you argue "Democrats would have done the same," when evidence pretty clearly suggests they wouldn't have?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

The framers failed to anticipate parties, or rather to the extent they did, they considered them evil.  The situation we're facing with a government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling battle would essentially be impossible if we had 535 Independent Congressmen

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

The framers failed to anticipate parties, or rather to the extent they did, they considered them evil.  The situation we're facing with a government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling battle would essentially be impossible if we had 535 Independent Congressmen

I don't think that would make much of a difference.  Surely 535 non-partisan members of Congress would divide and organize themselves ideologically, no?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

The framers failed to anticipate parties, or rather to the extent they did, they considered them evil.  The situation we're facing with a government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling battle would essentially be impossible if we had 535 Independent Congressmen

The framers started the political parties, and passed the 12th amendment to encourage political parties.

[Smid]

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

The framers failed to anticipate parties, or rather to the extent they did, they considered them evil.  The situation we're facing with a government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling battle would essentially be impossible if we had 535 Independent Congressmen

I don't think independent Members of Congress would help - what is best for each district is not necessarily what is best for the nation, which is how you end up with pork being doled out. There is no incentive for individual Members of Congress to rein in the spending if it means cut backs in their district, they just blame Congress generally, while contributing to the problem. If the Executive was formed from the Legislature, as it is under the Westminster System, they wouldn't be able to have this game of calling one another's bluff.

[anvi]

The Quinnpiac poll (Questions 38 and 39) released today has Republicans supporting a shutdown 49-44 and supporting using the debt ceiling 52-39 if it will lead to a defunding of Obamacare.

Well, there it is.  Leaves me saying both "good Lord" and "that figures" in the same sentence.

[Tender Branson]

The Republicans are to blame of course.

Democrats are already up 9 points in the 2014 Generic Congressional Ballot ...

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Unfortunately, while an overwhelming majority is opposed to using a government shutdown as a tactic, according to the polls, a bare majority of Republicans approve of this.  While I hope I'm wrong, I would not be surprised to see this shutdown last a while, possibly until the debt ceiling replaces it as the immediate concern in a couple weeks.

Where are you seeing that?  The last poll I saw showed a plurality of Republicans (49%) opposed defunding Obamacare if it led to a government shutdown, with 30-something percent favoring it.

The Quinnpiac poll (Questions 38 and 39) released today has Republicans supporting a shutdown 49-44 and supporting using the debt ceiling 52-39 if it will lead to a defunding of Obamacare.

I hate to nitpick, but 49% is not a majority.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

The framers failed to anticipate parties, or rather to the extent they did, they considered them evil.  The situation we're facing with a government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling battle would essentially be impossible if we had 535 Independent Congressmen

I don't think that would make much of a difference.  Surely 535 non-partisan members of Congress would divide and organize themselves ideologically, no?

Of course they would, but they likely wouldn't form themselves into two monolithic blocks without parties.  You'd get something more analogous to a multi-party system, and in such a case, what are now the moderate Republicans would be more easily be able to break with the Tea Partiers and vote for sanity.  (There also would likely be less gerrymandering without parties.)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Unfortunately, while an overwhelming majority is opposed to using a government shutdown as a tactic, according to the polls, a bare majority of Republicans approve of this.  While I hope I'm wrong, I would not be surprised to see this shutdown last a while, possibly until the debt ceiling replaces it as the immediate concern in a couple weeks.

Where are you seeing that?  The last poll I saw showed a plurality of Republicans (49%) opposed defunding Obamacare if it led to a government shutdown, with 30-something percent favoring it.

The Quinnpiac poll (Questions 38 and 39) released today has Republicans supporting a shutdown 49-44 and supporting using the debt ceiling 52-39 if it will lead to a defunding of Obamacare.

I hate to nitpick, but 49% is not a majority.

It's within the margin of error, especially since I suspect some of those opposed or uncertain of using the continuing resolution as their weapon do so because they think they have more clout with the debt ceiling.  More importantly, the distinction between plurality and majority isn't really relevant in a poll that allows "No answer" as an option.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

GOP, but Obama and Dems just caved on sequestion. There was no negotiation after that. So now, the GOP feel emboldened by it.

[Maxwell]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/01/gingrich_obama_refuses_to_behave_like_an_american_president.html

Classy man Newt Gingrich is using this as an opportunity to pin Obama as a "foreigner". This really digs deep under my skin, as I think we all get, at this point, the game that Newt is trying to play here.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Republicans, but I don't necessarily view it in a negative way outside of the basic political repercussions. Democrats would have done the same, and will do the same in the future, and I can't say I blame them.

Oh please......

Honestly, this both sides do it crap is getting annoying. No, one side is ing insane and the other isn't and that is all their is to it.

Let me reword your argument in a more simple manner:

MY OPINION IS BETTER THAN YOURS BECAUSE I SAIZ SO. I AM INTELECT AND YOU DUMMY. YOU HATE POORS AND GAYS AND WANT AMERICA TO FAIL.

Did Democrats pull this crap over the Iraq War or anything else during the Bush years?  No?

Then how can you argue "Democrats would have done the same," when evidence pretty clearly suggests they wouldn't have?

They didn't shutdown the government, but they defunded the Iraq War.

[Brittain33]

They didn't shutdown the government, but they defunded the Iraq War.

When? I vividly remember Kossacks wanting Congress to defund the Iraq War after we took the House in 2006 as a way to force Bush's hand, but the leadership refused.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

They didn't shutdown the government, but they defunded the Iraq War.

When? I vividly remember Kossacks wanting Congress to defund the Iraq War after we took the House in 2006 as a way to force Bush's hand, but the leadership refused.

You are correct, they did not defend the war. My mistake. Consider my point withdrawn.

[Smid]

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

The framers failed to anticipate parties, or rather to the extent they did, they considered them evil.  The situation we're facing with a government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling battle would essentially be impossible if we had 535 Independent Congressmen

I don't think independent Members of Congress would help - what is best for each district is not necessarily what is best for the nation, which is how you end up with pork being doled out. There is no incentive for individual Members of Congress to rein in the spending if it means cut backs in their district, they just blame Congress generally, while contributing to the problem. If the Executive was formed from the Legislature, as it is under the Westminster System, they wouldn't be able to have this game of calling one another's bluff.

This op-ed piece, which I hope is not geo-locked, sets out the point I was trying to make above, that the separation of the Executive and Legislature is the reason for this type of stalemate.

[barfbag]

I blame the high cost of Obamacare causing us to not have enough spending room. Every Democrat voted in favor of individuals like you and me not having the same health care privileges as corporations and politicians by waiting a year for the mandate. They're elitist and out of touch.