2008 Candidates Of The Week #1

[Moooooo]

2008 Presidential CANDIDATES OF THE WEEK #1 (3/1/05 - 3/8/05)

Democrat: General Wesley Clark (ret.)

 

Bio: General Wesley K. Clark is one of the nation’s most distinguished retired military officers. During his thirty-three years of service in the United States Army, he held numerous staff and command positions, served in Vietnam, and rose to the rank of 4-star general and NATO Supreme Allied Commander. Now in the private sector, General Clark is chairman and CEO of Wesley K. Clark & Associates, a strategic advisory and consulting firm, serves on the boards of several private corporations and non-profit organizations and comments regularly on politics, diplomacy and public affairs.

(rest of bio: http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/Biography.htm )

HOTTT Button Issues:

Abortion: Pro-Choice
(http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/on_the_issues.htm#Women )

Gun Control: Pro-Gun Control (make it a local issue, not a national one.) (http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/on_the_issues.htm#Guns )

Tax Cuts: Against Bush’s cuts.  Families First tax plan: fair,progressive,simple,responsible (http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/on_the_issues.htm#Taxes... )

War in Iraq: Supports war in Afghanistan, but not in Iraq. (http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Wesley_Clark_War_+_Peace... )

(more issues: http://www.issues2000.org/Wesley_Clark.htm )

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Republican: Rudy Giuliani - Former Mayor of New York



Bio: He was unsuccessful in the race for mayor of New York in 1989, however he won the election in 1993, becoming the first Republican mayor in twenty years. He was re-elected in 1997. Under Giuliani’s leadership, crime figures were reduced dramatically, However, his policy of ‘zero tolerance’ (tough penalties for minor offences) was criticised as draconian and racist. He also launched a tough crack-down on homelessness and the sex industry, concentrating on the visibility of the problem, rather than helping its victims

(rest of bio: http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/new_site/biography... )

HOTTT Button Issues:

Abortion: Pro-Choice (No ban on partial-birth abortions. Dec 1999)

Gun Control: Pro-Gun Control (All gun owners should pass written test. Mar 2000)

Tax Cuts: For Bush's tax cuts

War in Iraq: Pro-War (Bush groupy)

(more issues: http://www.ontheissues.org/Rudy_Giuliani.htm )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For each candidate…

1.)   Will they run?
2.)   Can they receive their party’s nomination?
3.)   How would they do in the general election?
4.)   Who would win in a head to head dual between this week’s candidates? (Map's?!?!?)
5.)   What is your overall assessment of both candidate

[Moooooo]

For each candidate…

1.)   Will they run?
2.)   Can they receive their party’s nomination?
3.)   How would they do in the general election?
4.)   Who would win in a head to head dual between this week’s candidates? (Map's?!?!?)
5.)   What is your overall assessment of both candidates?

[AuH2O]

That's an easy one. Clark is worthless and proved it. Guiliani is a good candidate in general but too liberal to win the primary. He also has some baggage and isn't young.

Chance matchup happens: <1%
Chance Guiliani would win: ~95%

[Smash255]

Rudy is VERY Socially liberal, that combined with Clark being from the south would open up some southern states for Clark (Arkansas, Missouri, Louisiana, Florida) and Clark would win

[Moooooo]

That's an easy one. Clark is worthless and proved it. Guiliani is a good candidate in general but too liberal to win the primary. He also has some baggage and isn't young.

Chance matchup happens: <1%
Chance Guiliani would win: ~95%

Some baggage?  He has more baggage than any of the names mentioned for 2008 with maybe the exception of Newt Gingrich.  I pray everynight that either Rudy or Newt are on the ticket in 2008.  Can you imagine those two running around the country preaching family values?

By the way, if anyone could make an image of Rudy's political compass I would appreciate it.  I really dont know enough about the guy to make a political compass for him and unlike Clark he doesnt have one at issues2000.

[Rob]

For each candidate…

1.)   Will they run?
2.)   Can they receive their party’s nomination?
3.)   How would they do in the general election?
4.)   Who would win in a head to head dual between this week’s candidates?
5.)   What is your overall assessment of both candidates?

1. Clark- maybe. Giuliani- no.
2. Clark- yes. Giuliani- hell no.
3. Clark- decent chance. Giuliani- good chance.
4. Clark.
5. Clark- fair. Giuliani- fair.

[AuH2O]

Clark is a TERRIBLE candidate. And I mean terrible. Trust me, I could care less as I don't like either, but Clark has no chance in hell of being elected President of the US... he would lose to Guiliani by 20% (my guess is Guiliani would take all 50 states), he would lose to anyone with the slightest inclincation to seek the GOP nomination. He would probably lose to Orrin Hatch.

[Rob]

Clark is a TERRIBLE candidate. And I mean terrible. Trust me, I could care less as I don't like either, but Clark has no chance in hell of being elected President of the US... he would lose to Guiliani by 20% (my guess is Guiliani would take all 50 states), he would lose to anyone with the slightest inclincation to seek the GOP nomination. He would probably lose to Orrin Hatch.

Come on. He's not exactly the greatest candidate, but a 50-state loss? Orrin Hatch beating him, of all people?

[Moooooo]

Clark is a TERRIBLE candidate. And I mean terrible. Trust me, I could care less as I don't like either, but Clark has no chance in hell of being elected President of the US... he would lose to Guiliani by 20% (my guess is Guiliani would take all 50 states), he would lose to anyone with the slightest inclincation to seek the GOP nomination. He would probably lose to Orrin Hatch.

I used to respect alot of your comments, but as of late you have been a complete partisan hack.  50 states? Get for real.

[Moooooo]

Anyway, Bob, who do you vote for in this situation?

[Smash255]

The south would really love a pro gay rights, pro gay marriage, pro-choice pro-pba Republican candidate.  Clark could winup picking up a bunch of southern states from the black vote along ebcause the white conservative vote will either vote for a 3rd pary or stay home

[Rob]

Anyway, Bob, who do you vote for in this situation?

Clark. Giuliani is a complete douchebag.

[Rob]

The south would really love a pro gay rights, pro gay marriage, pro-choice pro-pba Republican candidate.  Clark could winup picking up a bunch of southern states from the black vote along ebcause the white conservative vote will either vote for a 3rd pary or stay home

Yes, Giuliani would do horribly in the South.

[TomC]

The south would really love a pro gay rights, pro gay marriage, pro-choice pro-pba Republican candidate.  Clark could winup picking up a bunch of southern states from the black vote along ebcause the white conservative vote will either vote for a 3rd pary or stay home

And at least Clark knows how to keep his wife. We will destroy Giuliani. Please nominate him. Please!

[Moooooo]

Yes, Giuliani would do horribly in the South.

We always joke about Roy Moore making a run if the Republican candidate didnt sit to well with the base.  Well, this is one of those circumstances where he might actually run and do well.

[Rob]

Yes, Giuliani would do horribly in the South.

We always joke about Roy Moore making a run if the Republican candidate didnt sit to well with the base.  Well, this is one of those circumstances where he might actually run and do well.

Definitely. Giuliani would be murdered if Moore ran.

[Frodo]

For each candidate…

1.)   Will they run?
2.)   Can they receive their party’s nomination?
3.)   How would they do in the general election?
4.)   Who would win in a head to head dual between this week’s candidates? (Map's?!?!?)
5.)   What is your overall assessment of both candidates?

1. if Clark manages to somehow win the Arkansas governor's race in 2006, he will be out of the running for the 2008 nomination.  and if he loses, he will most definitely not be able to run in any event.  Giuliani will run, but he doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning his party's nomination -i will bet on that. 
 
2. Wesley Clark has a far better chance of winning his party's nomination than Rudy Giuliani, though he does have his baggage carried over from his years as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO (whatever the position is called) during the Kosovo conflict.  i hope and pray that Giuliani is picked by the GOP as he will most definitely split their base, and drive the rest to either turn to a third party, vote for Clark, or not vote at all.  but obviously, they aren't stupid enough to do that. 

3 & 4. Clark will carry all the Kerry and Gore states, and could also recoup some of the states that Bill Clinton won in 1992 and 1996.  Giuliani may be able to narrow the margins ever so slightly in New England, but i won't bet on it.  and he will be slaughtered in the South and western states. 

and i'm too lazy to make a map, but you've got the picture -a by and large Atlas red surge across much of the United States, or a major third party candidacy by Roy Moore carrying the Deep South states, following in the footsteps of Barry Goldwater and George C. Wallace.  it will be like 1968 if you really think about it.  what Southerner in his or her right man would vote for a damn Yankee like Rudy Giuliani who doesn't share much in common with them except that he is a Republican (maybe)?  no suh, they won't waste theah vote on him.   

5. Clark is less likely to run for president (since he is already running for governor) than he is to win his party's nomination.  Giuliani will try to run, but the bigwigs at the RNC will not allow him to win.  in both cases, the scenario of a matchup is unlikely. 

[Rob]

Just for the hell of it, a map (this is if Moore runs):



Clark wins 338-185, with Moore carrying Mississippi and Alabama for 15.

[skybridge]

If the GOP party nominated Giuliani Clark would definitely have a chance since security would still be the main issue. Giuliani wouldn't have any of Bush's moral value support and with Clinton's endorsement, as well as a successful governorship, Clark could win Clinton's western-Mississippi line (LA, AR, MO, IA), though his liberal views, of course, wouldn't help in much of else of the south. Clark would probably also be a more aggressive opponent than Kerry, so NH and NM could go to the Dems as well. However, the GOP could probably claim OH and FL again. (Someone could make a map based on this, I don't know how)

[AuH2O]

nick- maybe you don't get this, but I REALLY dislike RINOs like Guiliani- actually I didn't vote for Bush because I don't like him either. So, if I hate someone, how can I be biased in their favor?

I'm telling you honestly, my opinion is that Clark is a truly terrible candidate... he was a loose cannon with no experience that had no clue what he was doing... his record as a General wasn't even good. He can't win the South, period, end of story, or anywhere else for that matter.

Now, if Moore runs as a 3rd Party? That makes it more interesting, but Guiliani wins in a ~1968 situation.

[J.R. Brown]

1)Will They Run? Clark-Maybe, Giuliani-I don't think so.
2) I don't think either one of them could receive their party's nomination, Clark might be able to get the VP spot and Giuliani is too socially liberal by Republican standards to make it through the primaries.
3 & 4) Clark would win in a General election taking some southern states-Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Florida.
5) I think Clark would make an excellant candidate with his military history and southern roots. Everybody loves a good ole boy from the south who also happens to be a war hero. Giuliani I'm not so sure. He has that 'America's Mayor' thing going for him which i'm sure people won't be forgeting about anytime soon. On the other hand he did go through a very public divorce. People may forget about the bad and focus on the good he's done for New York City, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon, I mean just look at Clinton, people still won't give up on that, of course Bill's ordeal was much worse.

[Moooooo]

nick- maybe you don't get this, but I REALLY dislike RINOs like Guiliani- actually I didn't vote for Bush because I don't like him either. So, if I hate someone, how can I be biased in their favor?

I'm telling you honestly, my opinion is that Clark is a truly terrible candidate... he was a loose cannon with no experience that had no clue what he was doing... his record as a General wasn't even good. He can't win the South, period, end of story, or anywhere else for that matter.

Now, if Moore runs as a 3rd Party? That makes it more interesting, but Guiliani wins in a ~1968 situation.

I understand and maybe I shouldnt have called you a partisan hack, but the 50 state Giuliani/Clark comment and some comments you have made refering to Evan Bayh as a landslide loser type candidate have made your comments look like straight partisan BS.

Someone once told me.  Rule #1 in political analysis. Dont let your politics get in the way of your analysis.

[AuH2O]

I just am not constricted by the last couple elections, which have featured mediocre candidates and close results.

Plenty of elections are not close. More importantly for our speculation, many POSSIBLE matchups would not be close at all.

There are Republicans that I think would be horrible, i.e. Newt. But the reason I say Clark would get killed by Guiliani has nothing to do with who is a Republican and who is a Democrat, since in reality Guiliani isn't a Republican and Clark was before he ran for President!!!

But, also consider that a Democrat last got 50% of the vote in 1976, and then it was like 50.08. So Democrats have shown no real ability to win big- without major 3rd party intervention. Republicans have had a number of big wins, with '72, '80, '84, and '88, and the loss in '76 was very close, and Clinton was held to 43% in 1992.

So, until I see otherwise, I have to think Democrats are not really capable of a huge blowout win, but that Republicans are. Now of course Hillary would slaughter Don King, but I'm talking about matchups with at least some basis in reality.

Everyone is biased, but the only candidate I think I'm particularly biased in favor of is Sanford, because he is an alum of my college and it would be great for the school if he won, and he's a good guy with good politics. Otherwise, why do I care? Is Bush stopping illegal immigration? Is Bush cutting the budget? The House GOP is holding the line against even worse measures by the Senate and White House, but even that is not enough.

So anyways, feel free to disagree with me, point out ways I'm wrong, etc., but please keep in mind I'm not really a partisan hack... not a member of the RNC, not a Bush voter EVER, not a $$ donor. I did some work in the 2002 elections in SC, not too much in 2004.

[Moooooo]

Republican and Clark was before he ran for President!!!

Thats a myth, Clark was never a Republican.  He openly admits to voting for Republicans in the past, but he was never a registered Republican or directly affiliated with the party in anyway.

Thats weird that you wouldnt vote for Bush in an election as close as this one.  Im sure he was a lesser evil to you than Kerry, right?  Who did you vote for?

[AuH2O]

Republican and Clark was before he ran for President!!!

He was never a Republican.  He openly admits to voting for Republicans in the past, but he was never a registered Republican or directly affiliated with the party in anyway.

Thats weird that you wouldnt vote for Bush in an election as close as this one.  Im sure he was a lesser evil to you than Kerry?  Who did you vote for?

Constitution. The point is that I'd rather have a clearly identified enemy than an enemy pretending to be a friend. And I knew VA wouldn't be close, so I guess it wasn't a major decision.

And by your definition of Clark, I'm not a Republican either. That was my point on partisanship... I may well be wrong, I've been wrong before (though not nearly as often as I've been right), but it's not because I just say Republicans will win no matter what. I think more of Hillary's chances than most Democrats. Just because I think Clark would self-immolate a thousand times over the course of a general election doesn't mean I'm biased. He did say he would "beat the sh**t" out of Bush during primary season...