Italy 2013 official results thread

[Kitteh]

I would imagine PD's cozying up to Monti hurt SEL a lot, this result. Those votes probably went to Grillo in the end, given that Ingroia (the other possible candidate for anti-Monti leftists) did pretty poorly too.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Any chance that Grillo forms a coalition with the bald left-wing dude?  They seem to be ideologically close.

This is the top question in my mind too. And I'm a little bit disappointed on the result of SEL.

Well, Guardian says:
‎"It seemed certain that neither right nor left could obtain an outright majority in the upper house, where the balance would be held by Beppe Grillo's Five Star Movement (M5S). So far, Grillo has ruled out supporting either side in his drive to sweep away Italy's existing political parties and the cronyistic culture they support."

Well that's nice, and on principle I agree with Grillo, but usually when there's a new election due to a lack of a majority, the top two parties benefit, so it might be better for him to change his mind and fight the system from within.

[Kitteh]

Any chance that Grillo forms a coalition with the bald left-wing dude?  They seem to be ideologically close.

This is the top question in my mind too. And I'm a little bit disappointed on the result of SEL.

Well, Guardian says:
‎"It seemed certain that neither right nor left could obtain an outright majority in the upper house, where the balance would be held by Beppe Grillo's Five Star Movement (M5S). So far, Grillo has ruled out supporting either side in his drive to sweep away Italy's existing political parties and the cronyistic culture they support."

Well that's nice, and on principle I agree with Grillo, but usually when there's a new election due to a lack of a majority, the top two parties benefit, so it might be better for him to change his mind and fight the system from within.

Grillo would lose most of his support if he entered government, given that people who voted for him voted specifically against the government/establishment.

[RogueBeaver]

Apparently the new parliament won't meet till March 15. So how does the Italian government formation process work? When does Bersani get asked by Napolitano to form a government? Gets his commission and then tries to cobble a Senate coalition together? Or simply say "sorry, can't do it" and recommend an early election?

[Obamanation]

Insane and terrible electorate is insane and terrible.

[MaxQue]

Apparently the new parliament won't meet till March 15. So how does the Italian government formation process work? When does Bersani get asked by Napolitano to form a government? Gets his commission and then tries to cobble a Senate coalition together? Or simply say "sorry, can't do it" and recommend an early election?

It's impossible for the President to dissolve Parliament in the last 6 months of his term, I read.

[RogueBeaver]

So there's no choice but to cobble something together. Bersani has to buy off 25 M5S senators until a new President is elected.

[Andrea]

I would like to wait for the final Camera results before going to sleep...but these 90 polling stations seem to have gone to bed too...

[Keystone Phil]

So what happens to the Monti coalition in a new election? Monti surely isn't stupid enough to run again.

I'm genuinely curious but I'll admit that my main reason for wanting to know revolves around the Italians Abroad vote. Without Monti in the race, PdL might have been blown out here (emphasis on "might") but they would have at least placed second. This is a real punch in the gut after such an exciting day.

[Franknburger]

What happens, until a new PM is elected? Will Monti stay in office? Any "expiry date", or could he theoretically rule the next five years, while various party leaders unsuccessfully try to assemble a Senate majority ?

[Andrea]

Senate seats so far

PD 91
SEL 5
The Megaphone 1
(total 97)
PD + SVP 4
SVP 2

PDL 93
Lega 17
Big South 1
(total Berlusconi 111)

Grillo 58

Monti 18

Valle D'Aosta french speaking regionalist party 1

Lazio still to declare...but it should split 16 for Bersani, 6 Berlusconi, 6 Grillo

 So Berlusconi will be at 117. Bersani will be at 113 + the 4 seats he won allied with SVP

6 seats for Italians abrod whose count is quite behind but as things stand, PD should get more abroad seats than PdL.

[SPQR]

Election of the new President,and then new elections,at least in the Senate,since in the Camera there is an absolute majority for PD.


Anyhow,I appreciate how you guys try and make rational polytical analyses,but it's pretty useless.
Italians love to vote for whoever tells them in a really nice way (either shouting the hardest like Grillo,or being a clown like Berlusconi) easy promises,such as "I'll give you back the money you spent on the property tax last year,and it will be cash!".

Worthless people who don't give a damn about who has the most concrete proposals,and don't have any ideals.

[Keystone Phil]

Senate elections can be held separately?

[Andrea]

Italians in Austria

6,742 voted (House)

Monti 31.02%
PD 30.55%
Grillo 17.57%
PDL 8.88%
SEL 6.28%

[RogueBeaver]

If a separate Senate election can be held, then .

[Franknburger]

Election of the new President,and then new elections,at least in the Senate,since in the Camera there is an absolute majority for PD.


Anyhow,I appreciate how you guys try and make rational polytical analyses,but it's pretty useless.
Italians love to vote for whoever tells them in a really nice way (either shouting the hardest like Grillo,or being a clown like Berlusconi) easy promises,such as "I'll give you back the money you spent on the property tax last year,and it will be cash!".

Worthless people who don't give a damn about who has the most concrete proposals,and don't have any ideals.

I think you are unjust to your people. My interpretation is that the vast majority of Italians wanted, and voted for, change. The problem is with the leadership, including somebody like Grillo, who raises the right questions, but refuses to get his hands dirty when he is actually being called into action. Obviously, nobody could credibly communicate  a vision for bringing Italy forward.

I fear that now everybody, voters and politicians alike, will have to learn their lessons the hard way, as in Greece. Financial markets are impatient and unforgiving. And we all know who will get hurt most during that process ...

[RogueBeaver]

According to Wiki, the Camera results are IBC 344, CR 126, M5S 109, Monti 48, Other 3.

[Andrea]

Scilipoti likely to be re-elected....he's the first out so far in Calabria but Berlusconi has been elected everywhere...

Franco Marini has lost his seat in Abruzzo. PD finished third and got a single seat (he was number 2 on the list).

Lombardo out in Sicily. Crosetto didn't survive in Piedmonte.

And Fini ends up with the same fate of Bertinotti (Camera speaker before him).

[Keystone Phil]

Silvio is demanding a recount.

Here. We. Go.

[MaxQue]

Silvio is demanding a recount.

Here. We. Go.

And for which reasons they would grant him one?

[Keystone Phil]

Silvio is demanding a recount.

Here. We. Go.

And for which reasons they would grant him one?

Oh, I don't know. Out of tens of millions of votes cast, the difference being 0.36% might be a good reason.

[RogueBeaver]

The Constitutional Court said no in 2006 when the margin was 0.1%, why would they give him one now with 0.4%? Hopefully certification comes through soon if it hasn't already. Still a couple of precincts in Lazio outstanding.

[jaichind]

Well, Berlusconi always claimed that the 2006 election was stolen when he lost by a tiny margin.  So name he can claim that the same thing is taking place.

[Keystone Phil]

The Constitutional Court said no in 2006 when the margin was 0.1%, why would they give him one now with 0.4%? Hopefully certification comes through soon if it hasn't already. Still a couple of precincts in Lazio outstanding.

Which had to be for some bizarre reason. I'll never understand how there isn't a recount when the margin is that small. Closer to 0.5%, ok but 0.1%? That's an injustice. And I'm not saying Prodi wouldn't have won but how do you not recount the vote in that instance?

[Andrea]

Senate finished for mainland Italy. Just 1 precinct at the Camera....please, come in fast!

Camera finished too now

PD 292 seats SEL 37 Tabacci 6 SVP 5
PDL 97 Lega 18 Fratelli d'Italia 9
Grillo 108
Monti 37 UDC 8