Is having homosexual feelings a choice?

[cp]

I can easily turn off my gay side and go to my hetero side.  When I have a girlfriend, I don't look at other girls, and I don't look at guys.  It is simple.

That sounds like it implies more about fidelity than sexuality

But you're right in one sense; homosexual/heterosexual feelings aren't a binary. Many degrees of bisexuality exist between them. Sorry for the bi-neglect.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

I perhaps dabble in something im not familiar with, I guess my sweeping comment probably isnt true but I still believe theres no pre-birth disposition

[Rob]

I really have no idea, and I don't care either. BTW, that was a great post Angus:)

not that it matters, but I still haven't figured out which team you're on.  maybe we need a purple icon.  and for the record, I'm a registered republican.

Well...that's a little complicated. On some issues I'm very right-wing, on others I'm liberal, and on still others I'm moderate. I don't really feel comfortable with either party, so I'm an independent.

[J. J.]

I'm going to turn the question around a bit.  Is having heterosexual feelings a choice?  I'm straight, but I have no idea if this is a matter of choice or not.

I will say this, me choosing to act or not act on these feelings is a matter of choice.

[angus]

I really have no idea, and I don't care either. BTW, that was a great post Angus:)

not that it matters, but I still haven't figured out which team you're on.  maybe we need a purple icon.  and for the record, I'm a registered republican.

Well...that's a little complicated. On some issues I'm very right-wing, on others I'm liberal, and on still others I'm moderate. I don't really feel comfortable with either party, so I'm an independent.

fair enough.  vote, do ya?  or just bitch?  well, anyway, I wasn't prying.  just observing.  I'm not too sold on either side either, but the rich folks seem to have better drugs at their parties.  I'm shallow like that.  Anyway, thanks for the response. 

Oh, and welcome to the forum cp. 

[Richard]

This is a very long quote TN, but please read it.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is sad, isn't it?  For responses to this, go here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/14/25238/046


Look.  I don't claim to have the answers.  I don't know.  I just don't know.  Maybe it is a choice.  Maybe it is a gene.  Maybe it is environment.  Maybe it is a combination.  I think all of those arguments have merits to some extent.

I just know that I myself grew up in a nice Christian family, very conservative.  I have a great relationship with my parents and all of my family.  Nothing odd or bad happened to me.  Why do I like guys?  *shrug* Beats me.

When I read stories like that, well, I feel particularly bad.  I mean, these are supposedly Christians.  What do you think Jesus' reaction would have been if He was the principal?  Lets look at the Bible:

You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
-Romans 14:10

Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
-Matthew 7:1 



Now back to the topic.  History is an interesting source.  While throughout history that I know I cannot find a single source where men married other men, men did frequently sleep with other men.  Marriage is for a man and a woman, by definition.  However, if you look at the Greeks, or even Romans, you'll see that it wasn't uncommon for them to have a wife and kids, and on the side a few male lovers.

Today is bad.  You have many people screaming "gay" at first sign of to guys touching each other.  I mean, come on!  Is two guys hugging gay?  What about two guys just kissing each other, as it is done in MANY CULTURES?

[The Man From G.O.P.]

This is a very long quote TN, but please read it.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is sad, isn't it?  For responses to this, go here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/14/25238/046


Look.  I don't claim to have the answers.  I don't know.  I just don't know.  Maybe it is a choice.  Maybe it is a gene.  Maybe it is environment.  Maybe it is a combination.  I think all of those arguments have merits to some extent.

I just know that I myself grew up in a nice Christian family, very conservative.  I have a great relationship with my parents and all of my family.  Nothing odd or bad happened to me.  Why do I like guys?  *shrug* Beats me.

When I read stories like that, well, I feel particularly bad.  I mean, these are supposedly Christians.  What do you think Jesus' reaction would have been if He was the principal?  Lets look at the Bible:

You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
-Romans 14:10

Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
-Matthew 7:1 



Now back to the topic.  History is an interesting source.  While throughout history that I know I cannot find a single source where men married other men, men did frequently sleep with other men.  Marriage is for a man and a woman, by definition.  However, if you look at the Greeks, or even Romans, you'll see that it wasn't uncommon for them to have a wife and kids, and on the side a few male lovers.

Today is bad.  You have many people screaming "gay" at first sign of to guys touching each other.  I mean, come on!  Is two guys hugging gay?  What about two guys just kissing each other, as it is done in MANY CULTURES?

Very interesting, it will suprise you that i am quite familiar with the story as i live in dallas and i know if that trinity academy, the story is terrible, and the school should be burnt to the ground for its decision. Homosexuality is a sin, but is no worse than a heterosexual sin either, and any religous group that auto matically condemns a person like that is totally wrong

[Richard]

Ah, the homosexuallity is a sin thing...  I'm not saying I disagree or agree, but I am just wondering...

- is kissing a guy a sin then?

- how about cuddling with your best male friend?

- or sleeping in the same bed, naked, but not touching?

- how about sleeping in the same bed, naked, touching, but no penetration?

- apply the same now for a heterosexual in the pervious three cases

- lust for a women in the mind is also a sin, so I'd assume that lust for a guy (in a guy's mind) is also a sin, right?

[angus]

used to be common courtesy.  actually, I'll admit it was for the other guy.  but if it makes you feel better, I don't have any recollection of anyone welcoming me either, and I started posting waaaaay back on Elvis' birthday in 2004.  That's a year and 16 days.  The dems didn't like me because I'm a republican and the republicans didn't like me because I was too weird.  There's really no third group that matters, so you pick the one that stinks the least.  I'm ever so slightly closer to marie antoinette than to karl marx, so the choice is made.  by the way, I do not necessarily think ideology is a choice, either.  Like sexual orientation, one's feelings about how wealth should be distributed is a function of many things, the least of which is choice.  (As if one wakes up in the morning and decides he actually wants to be in favor of school vouchers.  yeah, right.  it just doesn't work that way.)  But then I'm not a Calvinist, so I needn't square Free Will with anything else in the universe, for that matter.  Anyway, welcome to you too.  or, bienveneu, mon ami, as the serious assholes like to say.

a little advice:  never suggest Jesus was gay.  even if you really think that.  I assure you that you'll never hear the end of it. 

[John Dibble]

Find me a homoesexual who says they werent abused mentally or physically, or raised without a male influence, and still are gay, and i'll show you someone who's lying.

My uncle. And I don't think he's lying, considering both my aunt and my father turned out fine with the same parents. My grandparents weren't abusive, in fact they were a typical family really.

John, in all reality I don't know those people but something happened to him, perhaps his parents werent responsible but perhaps they had no idea what happened

Or, perhaps you are hanging onto a notion that has no scientific backing or reasonable evidence supporting it. If you have credible evidence, it should be linked. Just because you think it is true does not necessarily make it so.

I won't deny that some homosexuals are probably that way because of environment, but many are that way due to biological factors beyond their control. I've said before it's likely a combination, varying in balance, some might be entirely biological, others purely environmental. The cause is not the same in different people.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

Ah, the homosexuallity is a sin thing...  I'm not saying I disagree or agree, but I am just wondering...

- is kissing a guy a sin then?

- how about cuddling with your best male friend?

- or sleeping in the same bed, naked, but not touching?

- how about sleeping in the same bed, naked, touching, but no penetration?

- apply the same now for a heterosexual in the pervious three cases

- lust for a women in the mind is also a sin, so I'd assume that lust for a guy (in a guy's mind) is also a sin, right?

uh quite queer but a no for the top two..... idk i think yes for the rest of them, Yup heterosexual dealings are sin and just as bad

[The Man From G.O.P.]

Find me a homoesexual who says they werent abused mentally or physically, or raised without a male influence, and still are gay, and i'll show you someone who's lying.

My uncle. And I don't think he's lying, considering both my aunt and my father turned out fine with the same parents. My grandparents weren't abusive, in fact they were a typical family really.

John, in all reality I don't know those people but something happened to him, perhaps his parents werent responsible but perhaps they had no idea what happened

Or, perhaps you are hanging onto a notion that has no scientific backing or reasonable evidence supporting it. If you have credible evidence, it should be linked. Just because you think it is true does not necessarily make it so.

I won't deny that some homosexuals are probably that way because of environment, but many are that way due to biological factors beyond their control. I've said before it's likely a combination, varying in balance, some might be entirely biological, others purely environmental. The cause is not the same in different people.

just like you said, just because you thnik it doesnt make it true either

[cp]

a little advice: never suggest Jesus was gay. even if you really think that. I assure you that you'll never hear the end of it.

How could Jesus NOT be gay?

[The Man From G.O.P.]

a little advice: never suggest Jesus was gay. even if you really think that. I assure you that you'll never hear the end of it.

How could Jesus NOT be gay?

stick to the topic, we dont want to go there

[Richard]

Ah, the homosexuallity is a sin thing...  I'm not saying I disagree or agree, but I am just wondering...

- is kissing a guy a sin then?

- how about cuddling with your best male friend?

- or sleeping in the same bed, naked, but not touching?

- how about sleeping in the same bed, naked, touching, but no penetration?

- apply the same now for a heterosexual in the pervious three cases

- lust for a women in the mind is also a sin, so I'd assume that lust for a guy (in a guy's mind) is also a sin, right?

uh quite queer but a no for the top two..... idk i think yes for the rest of them, Yup heterosexual dealings are sin and just as bad

You realize before pajamas, it was common to sleep naked because you didn't want to wear and tear your day clothes unnecessarily?  And because beds were rare and houses were small, people usually slept in close proximity?  And in cold climates, the only way to maintain and utilize body heat is skin contact?

Even now, if someone fell into Lake Huron (almost frozen water) and I pick him out, the first thing I'd do (without immediate access to a phone and medical aid) is to send someone to try to get help, and then to strip the guy naked and lie down with him, naked, in a sleeping bag so as to transfer body heat?  It is the best way to revive a person's skin temperature back to normal.

What "homosexuallity" is actually a sin?  Or does motive play a role?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Find me a homoesexual who says they werent abused mentally or physically, or raised without a male influence, and still are gay, and i'll show you someone who's lying.

It's a shame whats happened to them to turn them in that direction.

they are ALWAYS a product of their environment

It is not a biological thing that is predetermined

Are you saying that Dick Cheney and his wife abused his daughter?

Cheney's daughter, Keyes' daughter, and Gingrich's sister are all lesbians. It happens to conservative families, too.

[Richard]

Find me a homoesexual who says they werent abused mentally or physically, or raised without a male influence, and still are gay, and i'll show you someone who's lying.

It's a shame whats happened to them to turn them in that direction.

they are ALWAYS a product of their environment

It is not a biological thing that is predetermined

Are you saying that Dick Cheney and his wife abused his daughter?

Excellent question.

[angus]

so jesus says, "let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone."

and a little bony old lady walks up and, THWACK, pelts the bastard.

and jesus turns to her and says, "oh, mom, do you always have to show off?!"

ba-da-boom.



but tn2024 is right, let's not go trolling just yet. 

I content that no one would choose it, even if they could. 

[John Dibble]

Find me a homoesexual who says they werent abused mentally or physically, or raised without a male influence, and still are gay, and i'll show you someone who's lying.

My uncle. And I don't think he's lying, considering both my aunt and my father turned out fine with the same parents. My grandparents weren't abusive, in fact they were a typical family really.

John, in all reality I don't know those people but something happened to him, perhaps his parents werent responsible but perhaps they had no idea what happened

Or, perhaps you are hanging onto a notion that has no scientific backing or reasonable evidence supporting it. If you have credible evidence, it should be linked. Just because you think it is true does not necessarily make it so.

I won't deny that some homosexuals are probably that way because of environment, but many are that way due to biological factors beyond their control. I've said before it's likely a combination, varying in balance, some might be entirely biological, others purely environmental. The cause is not the same in different people.

just like you said, just because you thnik it doesnt make it true either

You might want to readthis. Of course, some other studies suggest environmental influences, and they are scientifically valid. This is why I find it to likely be a combination in most cases, with some pure causes on both ends.

[Rob]

Angus, thanks for your actual welcoming;)  And welcome to the forum, yourself

[Cashcow]

I perhaps dabble in something im not familiar with, I guess my sweeping comment probably isnt true but I still believe theres no pre-birth disposition

True or not, you can certainly offend others by making comments like that. I'm sorry for calling you an idiot, but don't use such sweeping generalizations.

[angus]

everytime I hear that line in that commercial, "twelve men, one boat, what could be better?"  I think about JC.  still, it's just a random free association, I suppose.  I'm no psychologist.  still, I cannot imagine how much coaching it took Rove & company to get the president to answer that line correctly at the debate.  I actually asked some folks that very question, both gay and straight, and they all claim that they never made such a choice.  I'm inclined to believe them.  who, among you, is such a clarivoyant that you can honestly say you know they're all lying? 

I retract the big turd I attempted to dump on your question, nclib.  I see now it was an excellent question.  my sincere apologies.

[nclib]

Find me a homoesexual who says they werent abused mentally or physically, or raised without a male influence, and still are gay, and i'll show you someone who's lying.

It's a shame whats happened to them to turn them in that direction.

they are ALWAYS a product of their environment

It is not a biological thing that is predetermined

Even if this was true, it still wouldn't prove that homosexuality is a choice.

[J. J.]

everytime I hear that line in that commercial, "twelve men, one boat, what could be better?"  I think about JC.  still, it's just a random free association, I suppose.  I'm no psychologist.  still, I cannot imagine how much coaching it took Rove & company to get the president to answer that line correctly at the debate.  I actually asked some folks that very question, both gay and straight, and they all claim that they never made such a choice.  I'm inclined to believe them.  who, among you, is such a clarivoyant that you can honestly say you know they're all lying? 

I retract the big turd I attempted to dump on your question, nclib.  I see now it was an excellent question.  my sincere apologies.

Angus, you've just heard a heterosexual say that he cannot determine why he is straight.   I think that is honest answer.

[Smash255]

Find me a homoesexual who says they werent abused mentally or physically, or raised without a male influence, and still are gay, and i'll show you someone who's lying.

It's a shame whats happened to them to turn them in that direction.

they are ALWAYS a product of their environment

It is not a biological thing that is predetermined

Thats ABSURD.  I have gay friends who had a great childhood growing up.  Were not abused in anyway and grew up in a 2 parent household with a mother & father and they turned out gay.