UK General Discussion

[You kip if you want to...]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9771841/TV-debates-could-take-place-a-year-before-election-day.html

Funny how it seems to, so far, only be the coalition parties worried about the debates.

Miliband not worried? Thurely thome mithtake?

Well, when he's against two leaders arguing about a record which they both nodded through together...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Sir Irvine Patnick (Conservative MP for Sheffield Hallam 1987-1997) has died at the age of 83. This is actually headline news, despite the fact that he was just a backbencher (of a fairly undistinguished hard-right type at that). The reason being the fact that he spread lies about the victims of the Hillsborough disaster.

[minionofmidas]

Can't say I ever heard of him, but he had two nicknames for a surname and a surname for a first name?

[Leftbehind]

He was revealed as The Sun's "source", so yeah - not a name most had until recently.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Operation Yewtree latest: Jim Davidson arrested.

[afleitch]

Operation Yewtree latest: Jim Davidson arrested.

Why is it everyone I've ever disliked get's arrested? What are the chances!

[You kip if you want to...]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/03/winter-fuel-pensioners-care

Wouldn't this be yet another broken promise by both sides of the coalition? It would be for the Tories at least.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The most disgusting thing about that is describing it as "brave."

[afleitch]

The most disgusting thing about that is describing it as "brave."

As it isn't means tested everyone gets it. That includes pensioners with high disposable incomes (including those retired and living in Spain for example) It was introduced by Labour in part to combat fuel poverty a problem that the energy companies themselves have committed £4bn to providing free heat insulation, 20% savings and payment plans.

This year, people born in 1953 will turn 60s. We have a cash and asset wealthy population of baby-boomers about to retire. My dad turns 60 this year, is retired and has a monthly disposable income twice as high as I do and will be given a £200 bonus every year which he has said himself he doesn't need and certainly won't be needed to pay his gas and electricity bills. It's not an appropriate use of public funds.

Of course, given that the over 60's and the soon to be 60's are probably the largest voting block, untested freebies thrown to their parents generation who often were dirt poor as pensioners will no doubt continue

[You kip if you want to...]

The most disgusting thing about that is describing it as "brave."

As it isn't means tested everyone gets it. That includes pensioners with high disposable incomes (including those retired and living in Spain for example) It was introduced by Labour in part to combat fuel poverty a problem that the energy companies themselves have committed £4bn to providing free heat insulation, 20% savings and payment plans.

This year, people born in 1953 will turn 60s. We have a cash and asset wealthy population of baby-boomers about to retire. My dad turns 60 this year, is retired and has a monthly disposable income twice as high as I do and will be given a £200 bonus every year which he has said himself he doesn't need and certainly won't be needed to pay his gas and electricity bills. It's not an appropriate use of public funds.

Of course, given that the over 60's and the soon to be 60's are probably the largest voting block, untested freebies thrown to their parents generation who often were dirt poor as pensioners will no doubt continue

The Tories should've been open about it at the last election then.

[afleitch]

The most disgusting thing about that is describing it as "brave."

As it isn't means tested everyone gets it. That includes pensioners with high disposable incomes (including those retired and living in Spain for example) It was introduced by Labour in part to combat fuel poverty a problem that the energy companies themselves have committed £4bn to providing free heat insulation, 20% savings and payment plans.

This year, people born in 1953 will turn 60s. We have a cash and asset wealthy population of baby-boomers about to retire. My dad turns 60 this year, is retired and has a monthly disposable income twice as high as I do and will be given a £200 bonus every year which he has said himself he doesn't need and certainly won't be needed to pay his gas and electricity bills. It's not an appropriate use of public funds.

Of course, given that the over 60's and the soon to be 60's are probably the largest voting block, untested freebies thrown to their parents generation who often were dirt poor as pensioners will no doubt continue

The Tories should've been open about it at the last election then.

Well it's a Lib Dem proposal. I don't see how the Tories could be open about a policy another party has put forward

[You kip if you want to...]

First YouGov 'best Prime Minister' poll of the year (with changes from the start of last year)
Cameron 33 (-8)
Miliband 25 (+8)
Clegg 5 (nc)
Don't know 38 (+1)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Not everyone born after 1950 (or whatever the new magical date is) is well off, and many that are not will not claim for things that they are eligible for. The fundamental advantage of universal benefits over any and all forms of targeting is that they actually reach everyone they're supposed to; as far as I'm concerned this more than outweighs any disadvantages. You also save money on admin, overhead and other such geegaws.
If people who don't need the help receive it anyway, well, they can view it as getting something back for their taxes. If not, perhaps they could consider paying the money back, or donating it to some good cause or other. All of which is rather corporatist/right-wing social democratic and therefore deeply unfashionable, but I'd argue less inherently discredited than the theoretical underpinnings of Burstow's idea. This is without touching on Burstow's additional (and unintentionally hilarious) assertion that this idea could pay for a 'reform' of the care system. Whatever can be argued about the winter fuel payment in general, that part of his big idea is pure magical thinking.

The politics of this are at least mildly interesting; do the LibDems really think that there are that many votes to be found by swinging to the right of the Tories? Most of the neoliberal (a term of abuse, generally, and always overused, but a useful shorthand in this case; Thatcherite doesn't quite capture matters) types who can be expected to be enthusiastic about this kind of thing are diehard Tories; the bedrockiest section of the bedrock, actually.

Burstow, incidentally, came into the LibDems via the SDP.

[DC Al Fine]

The politics of this are at least mildly interesting; do the LibDems really think that there are that many votes to be found by swinging to the right of the Tories?

I find the idea of the Lib Dems trying to pick up current UKIP supporters hilarious.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The politics of this are at least mildly interesting; do the LibDems really think that there are that many votes to be found by swinging to the right of the Tories?

I find the idea of the Lib Dems trying to pick up current UKIP supporters hilarious.

And yet, somehow fitting.

[You kip if you want to...]

The politics of this are at least mildly interesting; do the LibDems really think that there are that many votes to be found by swinging to the right of the Tories?

I find the idea of the Lib Dems trying to pick up current UKIP supporters hilarious.

Well, they're surely dead to the left.

[DC Al Fine]

The politics of this are at least mildly interesting; do the LibDems really think that there are that many votes to be found by swinging to the right of the Tories?

I find the idea of the Lib Dems trying to pick up current UKIP supporters hilarious.

Well, they're surely dead to the left.

I know, but to switch to going after right wing Tories & UKIPers?... they aren't the brightest bunch.

[You kip if you want to...]

The politics of this are at least mildly interesting; do the LibDems really think that there are that many votes to be found by swinging to the right of the Tories?

I find the idea of the Lib Dems trying to pick up current UKIP supporters hilarious.

Well, they're surely dead to the left.

I know, but to switch to going after right wing Tories & UKIPers?... they aren't the brightest bunch.

As their conduct since the moment the polls closed in 2010 proves...

[DC Al Fine]

The politics of this are at least mildly interesting; do the LibDems really think that there are that many votes to be found by swinging to the right of the Tories?

I find the idea of the Lib Dems trying to pick up current UKIP supporters hilarious.

Well, they're surely dead to the left.

I know, but to switch to going after right wing Tories & UKIPers?... they aren't the brightest bunch.

As their conduct since the moment the polls closed in 2010 proves...

[YL]

Sir Irvine Patnick (Conservative MP for Sheffield Hallam 1987-1997) has died at the age of 83. This is actually headline news, despite the fact that he was just a backbencher (of a fairly undistinguished hard-right type at that). The reason being the fact that he spread lies about the victims of the Hillsborough disaster.

He was a Tory whip for a time, which was what his knighthood was for.

My first general election vote contributed (in a small way of course!) to ending his parliamentary career.  The Con to LD swing in Hallam in that election was over 18%.

[You kip if you want to...]

Quote from Farage

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[You kip if you want to...]

Just came across this from last month. Don't understand why Scottish Labour is so crap.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20755329

[DC Al Fine]

Just came across this from last month. Don't understand why Scottish Labour is so crap.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20755329

Do you think that's crap because you disagree with her view that free university leads to lower standards or do you think they are crap because they are embracing more right wing views?

[You kip if you want to...]

Just came across this from last month. Don't understand why Scottish Labour is so crap.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20755329

Do you think that's crap because you disagree with her view that free university leads to lower standards or do you think they are crap because they are embracing more right wing views?

Both really, but more the former.

[afleitch]

Just came across this from last month. Don't understand why Scottish Labour is so crap.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20755329

Do you think that's crap because you disagree with her view that free university leads to lower standards or do you think they are crap because they are embracing more right wing views?

They are crap because they send their 'best' down to Westminster and leave their second rate, ex councillors or union patsies to harangue the Scottish people bleating on about the 'Tories at Westminster' in a Scottish election until people's ears bleed. They are technocratic political scabs who are not fit to hold office in Scotland again.