UK General Discussion

[MaxQue]

Lewis is right. Parents are obviously hoping than their kids will be straight.

[k-onmmunist]

doesn't change the fact it was a silly and irrelevant comment.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Wait, there's a David Davies in the Tory Parliamentary Party as well as a David Davis? Wonderful.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Following a long Welsh tradition, some people like to call him David Davies of Monmouth.

[minionofmidas]

doesn't change the fact it was a silly and irrelevant comment.

The second one certainly, if also hilarious.

What was the context to the first one; did it come totally out of nowhere or what?

[You kip if you want to...]

Just realised that even Boris counts as one of the "1 in 8 born outside of the UK" in the census figures. Won't find that in the Mail or the Express though, i'm sure.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Things relating to a certain issue have taken a turn for the surreal:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/13/anglican-church-protests-gay-marriage-ban

[You kip if you want to...]

Things relating to a certain issue have taken a turn for the surreal:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/13/anglican-church-protests-gay-marriage-ban

So Dave tries to shut his backbenchers up and it back fires, as per. He really is a weak PM, isn't he?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Things relating to a certain issue have taken a turn for the surreal:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/13/anglican-church-protests-gay-marriage-ban

I'm not entirely surprised, since the fourth part of the so-called 'quadruple lock' is prima facie redundant and pointless as well as stupid, and it seems like the Church in Wales has enough of a vague sense of self-respect to know that.

[k-onmmunist]

Things relating to a certain issue have taken a turn for the surreal:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/13/anglican-church-protests-gay-marriage-ban

this is unbelievable. i've never seen such incompetence, even from this government.

[afleitch]

Things relating to a certain issue have taken a turn for the surreal:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/13/anglican-church-protests-gay-marriage-ban

First of all it's a bluff. Indeed it's such an obvious bluff I'm suprised at the reaction to it.

There is almost no chance this particular caveat will be in the final bill and is not something the cabinet supports. Bear in mind that there is in all likelyhood a comfortable cross party majority for full equal marriage legislation. The law has already recently been amended to allow civil unions in religious buildings (which may also comprise a seperate religious blessing) and no restriction was placed on the CofE in that amendment.

This move is designed to force the CofE's hand on how it would internally administer same sex marriage requests, if at all. Why? Because that has been the underlying problem with the CofE, the CofW and indeed the Episcopalian Church in Scotland (and the Church of Scotland too) The mainstream churches have either been slow, or have refused to deal internally with 'the gays' not only as society has moved on, but the law has moved on too. I work fairly closely with the 'Faith in Marriage' equal marriage campaign in Scotland and there are sizeable minorities, possibly even majorities in favour of equal marriage in many of the presbyterys or churches. However the churches on the whole have had to oppose same sex marriage in their response to the consultation because if it becomes a reality it forces them to confront the issue head on and doing so opens them up to splits and arguments they would rather face in their own time.

The problem is, as the discussion over female bishops has shown 'in their own time' has taken fourteen years without a satisfactory conclusion. Civil law simply cannot wait while the established churches hum and haw. Everyone knows, opponents of the measure especially, that no church will ever be forced to marry people they do not want to marry and this presently doesn't happen anyway (see the Catholic Church and divorce) but it's all they have left and it's helpful to keep pushing the point because it sort of sounds like it 'might be true.' And as we all know on matters LGBT in the Commons in years past, things that sound like they might be true are often used to try and stall legislation. That's the same rhetoric we heard from the backbenchers and from CofE spokesmen early this week.

So the bluff was called; put in this 'quadruple lock' because using the above tactic it looks to the public like it's something the CofE 'might have wanted' which as Ben Bradshaw says in the article, makes the Church of England look much more reactionary and unreasonable than it actually is.

So now what? Well if the CofE and CofW think a complete bar is unreasonable, they now have to argue why, in light of things, same sex marriage should in fact not be completely barred when applied to Anglican churches. Cue uncomfortable disussions and submissions within the churches and highlighting again the fact that all marriage is 'civil' which is exactly what proponents of equal marriage have wanted.

[bore]

Robin Lustig retired from the world tonight (which incidentally, is my favourite news program, easily) after 23 years yesterday, and I'm quite sad about it. Not only because he was a great interviewer, but he also had, in my opinion the best voice in all of British radio. We can only hope that someone equally good replaces him.

[Leftbehind]

Long, large-sampled poll from Ashcroft.

Topline VI (male/female in brackets)
Lab 42% (33%/31%)
Con 32% (38%/45%)
Lib  9% (8%/9%)
UKIP 9% (11%/7%)

Pref PM (UKIP voters in brackets)
48% Cameron (57%)
38% Miliband (33%)
13% Clegg (10%)

Pref duo:
52% Cam/Osb (61%)
48% Mil/Balls (39%)

Pref for 2015:
Lab gov 39% (31%)
Con gov 32% (43%)
Lab/Lib 18% (18%)
Con/Lib 12% (9%)




Tonnes more interesting questions, but I can't be arsed posting them.

[afleitch]

Andrew Mitchell stitched up?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/12/18/andrew-mitchell-downing-street-police-plebgate-_n_2324257.html?1355861558

[bore]

If the polling is accurate, it adds more weight to UKIP just being a receptacle for protest votes (otherwise why would so many left wingers support them?)

[You kip if you want to...]

Long, large-sampled poll from Ashcroft.
Pref PM (UKIP voters in brackets)
48% Cameron (57%)
38% Miliband (33%)
13% Clegg (10%)

Pref duo:
52% Cam/Osb (61%)
48% Mil/Balls (39%)

Pref for 2015:
Lab gov 39% (31%)
Con gov 32% (43%)
Lab/Lib 18% (18%)
Con/Lib 12% (9%)

What dates are the bracketed numbered because the comparison is devastating for Dave.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Andrew Mitchell stitched up?

Possibly (ah, how this hilarious story keeps on getting both stranger and funnier), but about 90% of the reason for the sudden demise of his career was his own gloriously incompetent reaction to the claims.

[Leftbehind]

Long, large-sampled poll from Ashcroft.
Pref PM (UKIP voters in brackets)
48% Cameron (57%)
38% Miliband (33%)
13% Clegg (10%)

Pref duo:
52% Cam/Osb (61%)
48% Mil/Balls (39%)

Pref for 2015:
Lab gov 39% (31%)
Con gov 32% (43%)
Lab/Lib 18% (18%)
Con/Lib 12% (9%)

What dates are the bracketed numbered because the comparison is devastating for Dave.

Those in brackets aren't changes or the prior figures, they're what the UKIP sample opted for.

[You kip if you want to...]

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am...

[afleitch]

I think next Christmas I might record a charity single for the Heysel disaster...

[You kip if you want to...]

I think next Christmas I might record a charity single for the Heysel disaster...

Stay classy.

[Leftbehind]

You're descending into self-parody, afleitch.

[You kip if you want to...]

The most humorously named MP has announced he's stepping down in 2015, Darling.

[You kip if you want to...]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9771841/TV-debates-could-take-place-a-year-before-election-day.html

Funny how it seems to, so far, only be the coalition parties worried about the debates.

[afleitch]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9771841/TV-debates-could-take-place-a-year-before-election-day.html

Funny how it seems to, so far, only be the coalition parties worried about the debates.

Miliband not worried? Thurely thome mithtake?