New German minister: Islam does not belong in Germany

[phk]

Hans-Peter Friedrich's comment comes in context of probe into killing of two U.S. airmen at Frankfurt Airport believed to be motivated by radical Islamist beliefs.

Just three days into the job, Germany's new interior minister is already causing his government a headache after wading into a highly delicate debate about multiculturalism and claiming Islam was not a key part of the German way of life. "Islam in Germany is not something supported by history at any point," Hans-Peter Friedrich told journalists on his first day as Thomas de Maiziere's replacement on Thursday.

Friedrich was speaking in the context of a probe by German authorities into last Wednesday's killing of two U.S. airmen at Frankfurt Airport, in which it is believed the 21-year-old Kosovan suspect Arid Uka was a lone operator motivated by radical Islamist beliefs. His comments were a play on words, turning on its head an earlier remark made several months ago by German President Christian Wulff, who said Islam now "belongs to Germany" because of the 4 million Muslims who live there.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/new-german-minister-islam-does-not-belong-in-germany-1.347329

[Beet]

This is just another part of the alarming trend towards intolerance in many parts of the world - fits into the same pattern as the assassination of the Christian minister in Pakistan and the new poll out showing Marine Le Pen on top in France.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Hans-Peter Friedrich's comment comes in context of probe into killing of two U.S. airmen at Frankfurt Airport believed to be motivated by radical Islamist beliefs.

Just three days into the job, Germany's new interior minister is already causing his government a headache after wading into a highly delicate debate about multiculturalism and claiming Islam was not a key part of the German way of life. "Islam in Germany is not something supported by history at any point," Hans-Peter Friedrich told journalists on his first day as Thomas de Maiziere's replacement on Thursday.

Friedrich was speaking in the context of a probe by German authorities into last Wednesday's killing of two U.S. airmen at Frankfurt Airport, in which it is believed the 21-year-old Kosovan suspect Arid Uka was a lone operator motivated by radical Islamist beliefs. His comments were a play on words, turning on its head an earlier remark made several months ago by German President Christian Wulff, who said Islam now "belongs to Germany" because of the 4 million Muslims who live there.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/new-german-minister-islam-does-not-belong-in-germany-1.347329

Really? Friedrich's remarks are related to airport shootings? I actually hadn't thought about it. And I haven't read anything about the German media making a similar connection here. Interesting how foreign news media are interpreting events.

Well, I guess it's possible that the shooting inspired him to say it... but nobody has actually accused him of something like that as far as I know.

[minionofmidas]

"Belong to", not "belong in". Not quite the same thing. And, of course, nothing new here - just part of the general pattern of most of the CDU and CSU not having arrived in the year 1970 yet.

[Hash]

This is just another part of the alarming trend towards intolerance in many parts of the world - fits into the same pattern as the assassination of the Christian minister in Pakistan and the new poll out showing Marine Le Pen on top in France.

I see that Le Parisien's latest publicity stunt has been a great success.

[2952-0-0]

Headline from 1933:

New German Reichskanzler: Jews do not belong in Germany

[Franzl]

"to", not "in".

Big difference, as Lewis said.

[ag]

Why is this NDP guy in the cabinet?

[ag]

"to", not "in".

Big difference, as Lewis said.

That difference is imperceptible to those outside of the German right-wing nationalist discourse. From the standpoint of this Jew, this guy should be de-nazified ASAP.

[Person Man]

Was it this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpQkJ2T7zrc

Seriously, though... he sounds like a politician from 1920s Alabama, not 2010s Germany.

Then again, someone should tell him that he cannot run for President of the United States without being born here....I think he should know that as he sounds like he is positioning himself for the Republican primaries.

[Lief 🗽]

The CDU really seems to be going off the deep end lately. Their coalition partners must be putting something in their food.

[Person Man]

...you mean their "tea".

[minionofmidas]

Actually, in this case, he means their beer.

[Lief 🗽]

That's what I get for trying to avoid crude national stereotypes!

[Antonio the Sixth]

LOL

And for once Beet is right, the trend clearly is alarming.

[Iannis]

He didn't say anything strange or bad, I see.

[Antonio the Sixth]

He didn't say anything strange or bad, I see.

Mindlessly stupid and demagogical would be more accurate, indeed.

[Mechaman]

LOL

And for once Beet is right, the trend clearly is alarming.

Tri-partisan agreement for the win!

[Franzl]

To clarify, I wouldn't have made the statement myself if I were him....but I'd be lying if I said I didn't sympathize with his view. Which is a shame, I don't want to agree with it.

It seems Germany (like the rest of Europe) simply isn't capable of being the melting pot that America is. That partially does have to do with views I would consider more xenophobic and racist than those most Americans would hold....but the type of Muslim immigrant found in Europe is a good deal different than any you would find in America.

I realize we're running on a very thin line between healthy criticism and unreasonable populist thinking...but I suppose I'm German enough to reject the notion that every culture is equally respectable and tolerable. I wish integration worked better. I honestly do. And I can't think of any real solution to this.

All I can say is that it is not only Germans (or Europeans) that need to make an effort.

[ag]

For many centuries the exotic religious minority in Europe that "didn't make the effort" were the Jews. In fact, the effort most of them made all those years was directed to not integrating, not folloowing the mainstream European way of leaving (the "Mosaic Law Germans and Austrians", a la Mendelssohn, weren't the rule - they only emerged in the 18th and 19th centuries, and were never a majority of European Jewry").  In almost every respect imaginable they were a lot more resistant to European ways of doing things than todays European Muslims are (otherwise they wouldn't have survived as an identifiable community for a thousand years). Nevertheless, I somehow doubt that these days that's being looked as a decent justification for the traditional European attitude towards the Jews, in Germany of all places, for that matter.

[Boris]

It seems Germany (like the rest of Europe) simply isn't capable of being the melting pot that America is. That partially does have to do with views I would consider more xenophobic and racist than those most Americans would hold....but the type of Muslim immigrant found in Europe is a good deal different than any you would find in America.

It'd be interesting to see if the present social stratifications within Europe would exist if immigrants and their descendants were primarily Indian Hindus and Sikhs and secular Chinese. Canada is basically that way, no?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ever been to Leicester, Boris? Or Southall.

[Boris]

Yeah, my mom's side of the family lived in Leicester during the 1980s. Ergo, when FIFA 64 came out, I always played as Leicester City F.C. and dominated with the dynamic duo of Emile Heskey and Steve Claridge. But I don't think the position of the British Indian community is really all that comprable to say, the Moroccan community in the Netherlands or the Turkish community in Germany. Nor has the presence of British Indians really - other than a few NF marches thirty years ago - lead to the ethnic tensions that exist in the Netherlands, France, and Germany. And obviously the thought of ethnic tensions in the blissful utopia that is Canada is lol.

I'm not the hugest fan of making broad generalizations since plenty (if not most) people transcend  such generalizations (and therefore such generalization rendered not useful for policymaking), but I'm sure Theo Van Gogh would still be alive today if he had made a film highlighting inequalities facilitated by the Hindu caste system instead of the status of women in Islam. And I'm sure the French National Front wouldn't really exist (or be a somewhat relevant force in French politics) if France were 10% Chinese instead of 10% Muslims. And there wouldn't be an exodus of Jews from Malmo, Sweden if immigrants to that city hailed from Maharashtra instead of the former Yugoslavia. And of course, it'd be hard to imagine the German interior minister stating, "Sikhism does not belong in Germany." But since only a minority engage in illegal or hateful actions, nothing useful can be drawn policymaking-wise (other than to simply arrest the perpetrators or illegal actions). Ergo, they resort to banning burqas and minarets and picking on a minority too poor/segregated/unsophisticated to defend themselves on an intellectual level, and things become unpleasant.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But I don't think the position of the British Indian community is really all that comprable to say, the Moroccan community in the Netherlands or the Turkish community in Germany.

Communities. But they are insofar as they are all minorities are obviously so (and still associated with with immigration despite no longer being recent immigrants for the most part), then, yes, they are comparable. More to the point they are absolutely comparable to the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities in Britain in terms of (to use your words) 'social stratification'; residential segregation of Hindus in Leicester (for example) is just as obvious that of Muslims in Birmingham.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Obviously not as the ethnic (interesting that you use that word) tensions in the Netherlands, France and Germany are ethnic tensions in the Netherlands, France and Germany. There was a lot of anti-Indian racism in Britain when Indian immigration was actually happening, some of it violent and on the fringe, but a lot of it as mainstream as it is possible to be.

Will respond to the stream of consciousness later, maybe.

[minionofmidas]

What he's emoting is "these swarthy migrants [for "Islam" is code. Their being Muslims Is not really the issue at all, or at least wasn't yet when the core of the sentiment formed. Though belonging to *some* other Confession is part of it, I suppose.] weren't here when I was a kid, weren't considered to belong here when I shaped my political views, and nobody asked for my approval." Which is technically true. Which I consider essentially unproblematic - though not right - when I hear it in everyday conversations.
But which has all sort of unfortunate implications when it's said by a member of government.
That said... This is the de facto line of the CDU. This was its official line until about 2002. "We are not an immigration country. If we close our eyes and go la-la-la these people will go away again." This is not a major news item in Germany. Unlike President Wulff's recentish statements of the flat opposite.
What the German right has its biggest issues with is efforts at integration. Or every form of integration that isn't full-on assimilation. They don't want an integrated, recognized non-German ethnic minority. In Schleswig-Holstein, they would prefer not even to have the integrated, recognized Danish ethnic minority.