OLD: Comprehensive Social Security Reform Act (See new thread: Reference Only)

[Antonio the Sixth]

OK, so the unemployment benefits might be :
- 70% in the first year
- 50% in the second year
- 30% in the other

With a minimum of $600 and a maximum of $2000


As for the retirement pensions, we can make it to be 75% of the average salary in the 20 years preceding retirement, with a minimum at $1000 and a maximum at $3000.


I somehow doubt that will work, but it's a beginning...

[Marokai Backbeat]

Reduce that minimum to $500 and make it last just 2 years instead of 3. I'm sure that is workable.

But I can already tell you without even thinking about it that your ideas for the pension program are too much. Unless you propose more taxes (like additional excise taxes I mentioned above, or something) it cannot be that large.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The excise taxes are an interesting idea (a nice thing to do could be to integrate them to health care's funding, so that to make sure it's correctly funded), but doesn't exempt us from the 10% constraint. If we raise taxes over that limit, I fear some people might find it excessive (actually, Polnut asked me to set the limit at 5%, but that would make the bill even more unworkable).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Antonio, did you find MB's preposal of 500 and 2 years acceptable for UI?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Antonio, did you find MB's preposal of 500 and 2 years acceptable for UI?

OK, that's fine. Just one thing : after 2 year, entitle everybody of the $500 minimum. I'm not comfortable with letting people without any income.

[CatoMinor]

OK, so the unemployment benefits might be :
- 70% in the first year
- 50% in the second year
- 30% in the other

How about
45% first 12 months
30% in months 13-18
20% in months 19-24
10% in the other

[Marokai Backbeat]

OK, so the unemployment benefits might be :
- 70% in the first year
- 50% in the second year
- 30% in the other

How about
45% first 12 months
30% in months 13-18
20% in months 19-24
10% in the other

I don't think there would be much of a point to unemployment compensation after the first year in this case.

As for Antonio's other post, I'll get to it shortly.

[CatoMinor]

[quote author=Marokai Sovereign link=topic=131056.msg2983475#msg2983475
I don't think there would be much of a point to unemployment compensation after the first year in this case.

As for Antonio's other post, I'll get to it shortly.
[/quote]Well with exceptions made if you have children of course, I don't think my %'s for the unemployment benefits are all that unreasonable. Its still a nice amount to help people get back on their feet while cutting back what we would be spending otherwise. Win-win

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What planet do you reside on presently, Jbrase?

For the bulk of the people, such an amount would be so trivial as to probably be not worth even bothering. It doesn't mesh with the reality of the situation regarding what proportion of the income goes to necessities.

[Bacon King]

I declare the final vote ending on Sunday, to have been illegal for the following reasons:


1. An amendment was missed (Antonio's)
2. While debate had seized at prior periods for as long as a week, debate was on-going at the time the vote was opened.
3. Because I say it was.

and if necessary

4. Because BK will find something to say it was if necessary.

Let me cover number four for you

Reason #1 doesn't work because he didn't offer it as an amendment and even called for a final vote; could set a bad precedent. Reason #2 counteracts established precedent. Reason #3 is questionable because, while I believe the presiding officer of the Senate should have the authority to bend the rules in situations where nobody objects, such as this one, there's currently no mechanism in the OSPR to allow this (it would make a good addition, though).

However, there is no limit to the bounds of Bacon King Loophole Abuse™!

I hereby rule PPT NCYankee's initiation of this final vote invalid as he lacked the authority to do so under OSPR Article 2, Section 2.1. Debate thus continues.


On an entirely unrelated note, I hereby publicly delegate to President Pro-Tempore NCYankee, under OSPR Article 2, Section 2.1.f, to act as presiding officer of the Senate whenever he deems it necessary, with the understanding that I shall continue to remain active and that we will essentially preside jointly over the Senate.

(yes, it is my fault that I had forgot to delegate the powers of the presiding officer over to Yankee, but it works out here, no? ) (also, assume that all other actions NCYankee has taken as PPT so far this term have been valid under OSPR 2-2.1.c. Just not this vote specifically. )

[Yelnoc]

I'll admit, I haven't read the entire thread.  But from the discussion ongoing, I have to ask why we are allowing people stay on unemployment insurance so long.  Why not 80% for the first 6 months, 50% the next three, and then 20% in the last three months?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I declare the final vote ending on Sunday, to have been illegal for the following reasons:


1. An amendment was missed (Antonio's)
2. While debate had seized at prior periods for as long as a week, debate was on-going at the time the vote was opened.
3. Because I say it was.

and if necessary

4. Because BK will find something to say it was if necessary.

Let me cover number four for you

Reason #1 doesn't work because he didn't offer it as an amendment and even called for a final vote; could set a bad precedent. Reason #2 counteracts established precedent. Reason #3 is questionable because, while I believe the presiding officer of the Senate should have the authority to bend the rules in situations where nobody objects, such as this one, there's currently no mechanism in the OSPR to allow this (it would make a good addition, though).

However, there is no limit to the bounds of Bacon King Loophole Abuse™!

I hereby rule PPT NCYankee's initiation of this final vote invalid as he lacked the authority to do so under OSPR Article 2, Section 2.1. Debate thus continues.


On an entirely unrelated note, I hereby publicly delegate to President Pro-Tempore NCYankee, under OSPR Article 2, Section 2.1.f, to act as presiding officer of the Senate whenever he deems it necessary, with the understanding that I shall continue to remain active and that we will essentially preside jointly over the Senate.

(yes, it is my fault that I had forgot to delegate the powers of the presiding officer over to Yankee, but it works out here, no? ) (also, assume that all other actions NCYankee has taken as PPT so far this term have been valid under OSPR 2-2.1.c. Just not this vote specifically. )

Good, then we can just toss the first three out since I didn't like them very much anyway. Why go with inferior when you can have the latest from BK Solutions, Inc.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'll admit, I haven't read the entire thread.  But from the discussion ongoing, I have to ask why we are allowing people stay on unemployment insurance so long.  Why not 80% for the first 6 months, 50% the next three, and then 20% in the last three months?

That's pretty low for the end of the first year, but it would make sense to lower it 50% or so after the first sixth months instead of keeping the same rate throughout the full first year.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Guys, I analyze, I don't write amendments. Come on.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Antonio, did you find MB's preposal of 500 and 2 years acceptable for UI?

OK, that's fine. Just one thing : after 2 year, entitle everybody of the $500 minimum. I'm not comfortable with letting people without any income.

Indefinitely? By 2 years unemployment, people will have needed to make other arrangements. $500/month is not enough to live on long term anyway.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Here is the two UI ideas I wrote on Monday, I think.

If you have some different numbers just copy and paste this format, but change the content to what you want it to say. May be this little inducement of pre formatting will encourage people to enter amendments. I want the UI settled by this weekend if possible, and the pension thing by the end of next week.

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[Bacon King]

The thread title should probably be changed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The thread title should probably be changed.

Too bad you don't moderate this board, then you could change it. But that would probably be a misuse of mod powers.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Marokai, did you come up with any figures on the 70 and 50 percent rates Antonio had put forward? I'd sort of like to get an idea of how that would turn out before I offer my own plan/amendment.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Marokai, did you come up with any figures on the 70 and 50 percent rates Antonio had put forward? I'd sort of like to get an idea of how that would turn out before I offer my own plan/amendment.

It wasn't directly pointed at him, but in a proposal from Yankee, I suggested it on my own and guesstimated it on the side:

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300-310ish billion, I'd say. And not right away. It would take time to ramp up. Make it 70% and you get it down to 290-ish billion. (Also, taking time to ramp up.) Or a net increase in spending of 150 billion or so.

Short of making it last one year only, I don't think you guys can do any better than that if you're going to change the UI system at all. Your main focus should be the pension program.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Antonio, did you find MB's preposal of 500 and 2 years acceptable for UI?

OK, that's fine. Just one thing : after 2 year, entitle everybody of the $500 minimum. I'm not comfortable with letting people without any income.

Indefinitely? By 2 years unemployment, people will have needed to make other arrangements. $500/month is not enough to live on long term anyway.

Keep in mind that is a minimum number.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would prefer to settle the UI first then do the pension program. Doing both could get confusing and we are almost there on the UI, with only the indefinately or time limiting of benefits remaining as an outstanding debate.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I do have a possible suggestion, but I will bail on the detail of it

Are there sections of the Bill as it is presented that can be approved relatively quickly with less intense cost demands?

Would it be possible to perhaps split the Bill? Just a thought, I have no idea whether this would work or not...

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

okay, I'll go ahead and offer a modified version of Yank's six month increment proposal

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[Antonio the Sixth]

How can we let people without any income after 2 years ? Nobody chooses to stay unemployed for so much time. There needs to be an universal minmum benefit for everyone : I find $500 to be extremely low, but it's still better than nothing. Otherwise, I'm fine with Shua's proposal.


If the original proposal cost $450 billion, with rates starting with 90% and ending with 50% indefinitely, I'm pretty sure such a proposal should be almost budget-neutral.