The Third Way

[LBJ Revivalist]

What's your opinions on the "Third Way" brand of politics--The brand/ideology which was dominant in the US and UK through much of the 1990s and early 2000s, epitomized by the Presidency of Bill Clinton and the administration of British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

[Ebowed]

About as useful as toe jam.

[courts]

Awful.

[LBJ Revivalist]

Awful.

Why do you say that ?

[k-onmmunist]

The worst of both worlds.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Failed everywhere.

[Franzl]

Necessary to an extent...at least in Europe.

I hate Gerhard Schröder passionately, but I can't dispute that certain economic reforms were necessary....and necessary that they come from the left-wing. (Much like the abolition of conscription...it had to come from the right.)

[LBJ Revivalist]

The worst of both worlds.

How is it "the worst of both worlds"?

[opebo]

Heh heh.  I love it when I can get it...

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Neutral.

I wouldn't have voted for Clinton in either presidential election (and I probably wouldn't have supported Tony Blair in any of the 3 British elections, either, though I can say that he is preferable to any other Labour leader).

[k-onmmunist]

The worst of both worlds.

How is it "the worst of both worlds"?

It takes the worst parts of both socialism and capitalism

Capitalism - Privately owned economy, deregulation
Socialism - Internationalism, bureaucracy

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Essentially a meaningless phrase, as the examples chosen by our resident concern troll neatly show (i.e. the domestic policies of the two cited governments had relatively little in common; certainly less than the Clinton administration had with the Major government, for example) unless you are fascinated by a certain made-for-tv rhetorical style.

[Хahar 🤔]

The worst of both worlds.

How is it "the worst of both worlds"?

It takes the worst parts of both socialism and capitalism

Capitalism - Privately owned economy, deregulation
Socialism - Internationalism, bureaucracy

If you don't like internationalism, how on Earth can you call yourself a socialist?

[phk]

FF

[LBJ Revivalist]

Essentially a meaningless phrase, as the examples chosen by our resident concern troll neatly show (i.e. the domestic policies of the two cited governments had relatively little in common; certainly less than the Clinton administration had with the Major government, for example) unless you are fascinated by a certain made-for-tv rhetorical style.

Um, when you look up "Third Way" politics, the two arguably biggest names associated with it were Clinton and Blair, at least in Blair's first few years of office.

I mean this is Wikipedia's definition of it:

"The Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies.[1] Third Way approaches are commonly viewed from within the first- and second-way perspectives as representing a centrist reconciliation between capitalism and socialist command economy.[2][3] Less often, the phrase Third Way is used to refer to Distributism. Democratic socialism would be an example of a Third Way.[4] This claim is embodied in the alternative description of the Third Way as the Radical center.

Past invocations of a political 'third way', in this sense, or a 'middle way', have included the Fabian Socialism, Distributism, Technocracy (bureaucratic), Keynesian economics, Italian Fascism under Benito Mussolini,[5]Harold Macmillan's 1950s One Nation Conservatism[6] and Phillip Blond's Red Toryism.

Third Way policies were enacted in the 1980s in Australia by the Hawke/Keating Labor governments.[7] The most recent prominent examples are the Clinton administrations in the United States as well as 2008 presidential candidate Hillary Clinton,[8] the Labour Party (New Labour) governments of the United Kingdom under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, the Liberal Party government of Canada under Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin, the Australian Labor Party under Kevin Rudd, the Polder Model in the Netherlands, the Democratic Party - demokraci.pl in Poland and the previous Labour government in New Zealand, led by current UNDP Administrator Helen Clark.

The Third Way rejects both laissez-faire and socialist approaches to economic governance, but chiefly stresses technological development, education, and competitive mechanisms to pursue economic ends according to the Democratic Leadership Council.[9] One of its central aims is to protect the modern welfare state through reforms that maintain its economic integrity.[10]
The third way has been criticized by some conservatives and libertarians who advocate laissez-faire capitalism.[11] It has also been heavily criticized by many social democrats, democratic socialists and communists in particular as a betrayal of left-wing values. The third way policies differ considerably between Europe and America; in America the term refers to significantly more right-wing and laissez-faire policies than in Europe.[citation needed]"

And this:

"In the United States, Third Way adherents reject fiscal conservatism, and advocate some replacement of welfare with workfare, and sometimes have a stronger preference for market solutions to traditional problems (as in pollution markets), while rejecting pure laissez-faire economics and other libertarian positions. The Third Way style of governing was firmly adopted and partly redefined during the administration of President Bill Clinton.[23]"

Personally, the "Third Way" sounds like a rational, non-extremist (on either side) way of governing.

[Earth]

Pure illusory garbage. The two "proponents" were neo-liberals.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Um, when you look up "Third Way" politics, the two arguably biggest names associated with it were Clinton and Blair, at least in Blair's first few years of office.

You've already said that. The reality is that offering an 'alternative' between caricatures of the main opposition party and the 'extreme' faction in your own is one of the oldest tricks in the book for 'centrist' leaders of major political parties.
To demonstrate the problem with assuming that the term meant any more than that, let's look at a specific area of domestic policy. Whatever can be said about Blair and his personal views, it is a fact that his government directed a great deal of money and support towards the poor and also invested a great deal of money on improving public service infrastructure. The difference between that Labour government and previous ones in this regard was largely one of methods (both in terms of implementation and financing). Contrast this with the Clinton administration and (especially) the Chrétien government. You see the problem here? Issues like that are fundamental in democratic politics.

[LBJ Revivalist]

Um, when you look up "Third Way" politics, the two arguably biggest names associated with it were Clinton and Blair, at least in Blair's first few years of office.

You've already said that. The reality is that offering an 'alternative' between caricatures of the main opposition party and the 'extreme' faction in your own is one of the oldest tricks in the book for 'centrist' leaders of major political parties.
To demonstrate the problem with assuming that the term meant any more than that, let's look at a specific area of domestic policy. Whatever can be said about Blair and his personal views, it is a fact that his government directed a great deal of money and support towards the poor and also invested a great deal of money on improving public service infrastructure. The difference between that Labour government and previous ones in this regard was largely one of methods (both in terms of implementation and financing). Contrast this with the Clinton administration and (especially) the Chrétien government. You see the problem here? Issues like that are fundamental in democratic politics.

Well, I'm not really big on international politics; I probably couldn't tell you anything about Blair, Thatcher or any British PM. International politics simply don't interest me.

But I would say, at least in practice, Clinton here at home in his domestic policy was very centrist (gutting AFDC, balancing the budget, considering privatizing Social Security) and even somewhat in his FP--Embracing NAFTA, which seemed to be pretty big amongst the GOP at the time, as well as taking an internationalist stance.

[courts]

Essentially a meaningless phrase, as the examples chosen by our resident concern troll neatly show (i.e. the domestic policies of the two cited governments had relatively little in common; certainly less than the Clinton administration had with the Major government, for example) unless you are fascinated by a certain made-for-tv rhetorical style.

'Tough On Crime, Tough On The Causes Of Crime.' It's almost beautifully trite, no?

[LBJ Revivalist]

Essentially a meaningless phrase, as the examples chosen by our resident concern troll neatly show (i.e. the domestic policies of the two cited governments had relatively little in common; certainly less than the Clinton administration had with the Major government, for example) unless you are fascinated by a certain made-for-tv rhetorical style.

'Tough On Crime, Tough On The Causes Of Crime.' It's almost beautifully trite, no?

Reagan certainly used such rhetoric to good political effect.

[Franzl]

If you admit you don't know about the European politicians you are talking about..why exactly are you?

[LBJ Revivalist]

If you admit you don't know about the European politicians you are talking about..why exactly are you?

I was using an often cited example of Third Way politics in Europe (Blair) in the hope that some European friends would join in the conversation and share their opinion.

[k-onmmunist]

The Third Way was an abhorrent failure.

[Antonio the Sixth]

There are many kinds of "Third ways". Jospin's was in some way, in the French context at least. If mean the theory developped by Blair and Schröder, I find it pretty bad in hinsight. I actually have a positive opinion of Blair's records, who succesfully rebuilt several things the Tories destroyed during the 1979-1997 era. But their abdication of all the left-wing values like the protection of an extended Welfare State was in the end very instrumental to the neoliberal right, that came back stronger.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

LOL. When I hear the term all I can think about is opebo's definition.