Which group of states has a higher homicide rate?

[opebo]

Things like homeownership or 'parenting style' are caused by the political actions of the powerful.  In other words the rich cause these social problems.  How could it be otherwise?

Strangely enough, there is a sliver of truth in Opebo's assertion.

In the 1960s and 1970s, welfare rules were such that they encouraged family breakup. 

Also, in the past few years the legal system has grown more tolerant of child molestation but less tolerant of parents resorting to corporal punishment to discipline children.

How odd that you are willing to look for root causes, but rather examining the capitalism that situates each of us in our station - including the poor in their hopeless one - you instead examine a feeble attempt to assuage some of the miseries caused by the system. 

As for 'child molestation', it is both exceedingly rare and treated much more harshly now than in the past.  In the old days it was virtually never pursued or prosecuted, now it is.  But aside from that fact, it is very rare - you propose that the poor Blacks are doing poorly in school because their momma's and daddies ed them? 

Lastly, no amount of beating a poor will change the fact that he is a poor, firmly lodged by political power into society's lowest and most servile postion.  Beat him all you like, but he will still be devoid of hope and well aware that the only thing that makes sense is to beat back or die trying.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

But look at the states you picked w/o death penalties - MI's not in there.

You got states w/ no big cities.  Alaska, ND, Iowa - these are all farm states (exception of AK and ME) - but MI has one of the WORST and we dont' have a death penalty.

Your logic is faulty here.

[Ebowed]

But look at the states you picked w/o death penalties - MI's not in there.

You got states w/ no big cities.  Alaska, ND, Iowa - these are all farm states (exception of AK and ME) - but MI has one of the WORST and we dont' have a death penalty.

Your logic is faulty here.

Do you think the death penalty serves as a deterrent?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Yes it does.

[nclib]

Well, lets see if we can find any other differences.

Alaska                3.7
Iowa                  2.3
Maine                 0.8
Minnesota          4.3
North Dakota     0.8
Vermont             0.6

California           6.7
Florida             15.7
Missouri           11.5
Oklahoma          7.7
Texas              11.7
Virginia            19.9

I'm guessing this is the percentage of the state's population that is here illegally and you are trying to show a correlation between illegal immigration and murder.  This is flawed logic however as all of the states in group A are closer to the border than those in B which means they will naturally have a higher percentage of illegal immigrants.  Thus the inference that illegal immigrants cause higher homicide rates is absolutely baseless.  Also states with smaller populations tend to have less homicide since most murders take place in large cities which is another difference between these two groups.

Wrong guess!

My guess is that those numbers are the African-American population of each state. Anyhow, keep in mind that the death penalty is used disproportionately on African-Americans, compared to their murder rates.

First, I suggest you please define "used,"

I'm not sure what was unclear about my post, but I meant that African-American criminals (ESPECIALLY those who murder whites) are more likely to get the death penalty than whites are, even controlled for the murder rates of each race.

BRTD that doesn't prove anything. Your assertion seems to be that the death penalty causes high murder rates. But its also possible that high murder rates piss everyone off and cause them to demand the death penalty. It is also possible that there is no correlation at all, simply coincidence.

Michigan does not have a death penalty but the murder rate in Detroit is very high. How does that factor in?

The point is the death penalty does not function as a deterrent.

Your numbers don't prove that. How do you know that a repeal of the death penalty in Texas wouldn't increase the murder rate?

I doubt it would have a huge effect one way or the other. My theory is that a culture of violence in some states causes higher support for capital punishment, and also explains high murder rates.

[nclib]

Yes it does [serve as a deterrent].

Do you really think that a criminal thinks about whether he/she is going to get the death penalty, before he/she decides to murder someone?

Finally, detterence is but one basis for capital punishment.

I'm anti-death penalty, but I feel that deterrence (if true) is the strongest argument for capital punishment. The other arguments seem to mostly be religious, and therefore not be relevant on a legal level.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Yes it does [serve as a deterrent].

Do you really think that a criminal thinks about whether he/she is going to get the death penalty, before he/she decides to murder someone?

Finally, detterence is but one basis for capital punishment.

I'm anti-death penalty, but I feel that deterrence (if true) is the strongest argument for capital punishment. The other arguments seem to mostly be religious, and therefore not be relevant on a legal level.

First, with respect to punishment in general, I suggest you review the excellent article "Why do we punisah" by Professors Carlsmith, Darley & Robinson.

http://portaldata.colgate.edu/imagegallery/faculty/90523431/imagegallery/faculty/JPSP_2002.pdf

Second, "detterence" is divided into "specific" and "general," with specific detterence being remarkably similiary to "incapacitation."

Third, I must admit to having a rather personal interest in this as someone close to me was a witness in the Charlie Schmidt murder trial.  I remember when Schmidt escaped from prison (his death sentence had been overturned by the Supreme Idiots) and he had vowed vengance on the witness against him.  He was apprehended days after his escapem with many sighs of relief.  If Charlie had gotten his "just desserts" he would not only have been specifically dettered and incapacitated, but justice also would have been done.

Not long after returning to Florence, Charlie received his just desserts courtesey of another inmate.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

But look at the states you picked w/o death penalties - MI's not in there.

You got states w/ no big cities.  Alaska, ND, Iowa - these are all farm states (exception of AK and ME) - but MI has one of the WORST and we dont' have a death penalty.

Your logic is faulty here.

Do you think the death penalty serves as a deterrent?

Yes - this stat simply chose some states that were low but didn't have the death penalty instead of looking @ the big picture.  There are no gangs in Alaska!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes, there are