Which group of states has a higher homicide rate?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Group A: Texas, Florida, Virginia, Missouri, California, Oklahoma

Group B: North Dakota, Vermont, Alaska, Iowa, Minnesota, Maine

Now can anyone tell me what all the states in each group have in common with each other?

[Tender Branson]

Group A: Texas, Florida, Virginia, Missouri, California, Oklahoma

Group B: North Dakota, Vermont, Alaska, Iowa, Minnesota, Maine

Now can anyone tell me what all the states in each group have in common with each other?

Group A - And the states in this group have the death penalty and those in Group B don´t.

[Speed of Sound]

Its this kind of thread, the faux question strategy you love so much, is exactly why we cant ever change anyones mind ever on anything. (leftists that is)

[CARLHAYDEN]

Well, lets see if we can find any other differences.

Alaska                3.7
Iowa                  2.3
Maine                 0.8
Minnesota          4.3
North Dakota     0.8
Vermont             0.6

California           6.7
Florida             15.7
Missouri           11.5
Oklahoma          7.7
Texas              11.7
Virginia            19.9

[MODU]

Group A: Texas, Florida, Virginia, Missouri, California, Oklahoma

Group B: North Dakota, Vermont, Alaska, Iowa, Minnesota, Maine

Now can anyone tell me what all the states in each group have in common with each other?

"Which group of states has a higher homiide rate?"

Why don't you put some effort into finding the information yourself) rather than making a stupid poll to answer a question) and then share the results of your effort with us?

[Padfoot]

Well, lets see if we can find any other differences.

Alaska                3.7
Iowa                  2.3
Maine                 0.8
Minnesota          4.3
North Dakota     0.8
Vermont             0.6

California           6.7
Florida             15.7
Missouri           11.5
Oklahoma          7.7
Texas              11.7
Virginia            19.9

I'm guessing this is the percentage of the state's population that is here illegally and you are trying to show a correlation between illegal immigration and murder.  This is flawed logic however as all of the states in group A are closer to the border than those in B which means they will naturally have a higher percentage of illegal immigrants.  Thus the inference that illegal immigrants cause higher homicide rates is absolutely baseless.  Also states with smaller populations tend to have less homicide since most murders take place in large cities which is another difference between these two groups.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Well, lets see if we can find any other differences.

Alaska                3.7
Iowa                  2.3
Maine                 0.8
Minnesota          4.3
North Dakota     0.8
Vermont             0.6

California           6.7
Florida             15.7
Missouri           11.5
Oklahoma          7.7
Texas              11.7
Virginia            19.9

I'm guessing this is the percentage of the state's population that is here illegally and you are trying to show a correlation between illegal immigration and murder.  This is flawed logic however as all of the states in group A are closer to the border than those in B which means they will naturally have a higher percentage of illegal immigrants.  Thus the inference that illegal immigrants cause higher homicide rates is absolutely baseless.  Also states with smaller populations tend to have less homicide since most murders take place in large cities which is another difference between these two groups.

Wrong guess!

[nclib]

Well, lets see if we can find any other differences.

Alaska                3.7
Iowa                  2.3
Maine                 0.8
Minnesota          4.3
North Dakota     0.8
Vermont             0.6

California           6.7
Florida             15.7
Missouri           11.5
Oklahoma          7.7
Texas              11.7
Virginia            19.9

I'm guessing this is the percentage of the state's population that is here illegally and you are trying to show a correlation between illegal immigration and murder.  This is flawed logic however as all of the states in group A are closer to the border than those in B which means they will naturally have a higher percentage of illegal immigrants.  Thus the inference that illegal immigrants cause higher homicide rates is absolutely baseless.  Also states with smaller populations tend to have less homicide since most murders take place in large cities which is another difference between these two groups.

Wrong guess!

My guess is that those numbers are the African-American population of each state. Anyhow, keep in mind that the death penalty is used disproportionately on African-Americans, compared to their murder rates.

[John Dibble]

Group A: Texas, Florida, Virginia, Missouri, California, Oklahoma

Group B: North Dakota, Vermont, Alaska, Iowa, Minnesota, Maine

Now can anyone tell me what all the states in each group have in common with each other?

Group A - And the states in this group have the death penalty and those in Group B don´t.

Which doesn't necessarily say that having or not having the death penalty has anything to do with murder rates in either group of states.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Well, lets see if we can find any other differences.

Alaska                3.7
Iowa                  2.3
Maine                 0.8
Minnesota          4.3
North Dakota     0.8
Vermont             0.6

California           6.7
Florida             15.7
Missouri           11.5
Oklahoma          7.7
Texas              11.7
Virginia            19.9

I'm guessing this is the percentage of the state's population that is here illegally and you are trying to show a correlation between illegal immigration and murder.  This is flawed logic however as all of the states in group A are closer to the border than those in B which means they will naturally have a higher percentage of illegal immigrants.  Thus the inference that illegal immigrants cause higher homicide rates is absolutely baseless.  Also states with smaller populations tend to have less homicide since most murders take place in large cities which is another difference between these two groups.

Wrong guess!

My guess is that those numbers are the African-American population of each state. Anyhow, keep in mind that the death penalty is used disproportionately on African-Americans, compared to their murder rates.

First, I suggest you please define "used,"

Second, according to the 2005 UCR (complete 2006 data not yet available) the Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter rate for Blacks was approximately seven times (well, slightly more) than the white rate. 

[David S]

BRTD that doesn't prove anything. Your assertion seems to be that the death penalty causes high murder rates. But its also possible that high murder rates piss everyone off and cause them to demand the death penalty. It is also possible that there is no correlation at all, simply coincidence.

Michigan does not have a death penalty but the murder rate in Detroit is very high. How does that factor in?

[opebo]

Second, according to the 2005 UCR (complete 2006 data not yet available) the Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter rate for Blacks was approximately seven times (well, slightly more) than the white rate. 

And why do you suppose that is?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD that doesn't prove anything. Your assertion seems to be that the death penalty causes high murder rates. But its also possible that high murder rates piss everyone off and cause them to demand the death penalty. It is also possible that there is no correlation at all, simply coincidence.

Michigan does not have a death penalty but the murder rate in Detroit is very high. How does that factor in?

The point is the death penalty does not function as a deterrent.

[Tender Branson]

Group A: Texas, Florida, Virginia, Missouri, California, Oklahoma

Group B: North Dakota, Vermont, Alaska, Iowa, Minnesota, Maine

Now can anyone tell me what all the states in each group have in common with each other?

Group A - And the states in this group have the death penalty and those in Group B don´t.

Which doesn't necessarily say that having or not having the death penalty has anything to do with murder rates in either group of states.

Don´t get hectic, I just answered his question ...

[CARLHAYDEN]

Second, according to the 2005 UCR (complete 2006 data not yet available) the Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter rate for Blacks was approximately seven times (well, slightly more) than the white rate. 

And why do you suppose that is?

Well, one part of the reason is the drastically different rates of home ownership.

[memphis]

Second, according to the 2005 UCR (complete 2006 data not yet available) the Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter rate for Blacks was approximately seven times (well, slightly more) than the white rate. 

And why do you suppose that is?

Well, one part of the reason is the drastically different rates of home ownership.

I'd say a much bigger factor is parenting style.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Group A.  The difference between the two groups is people actually live in Group A, save for Minnesota in Group B.

[Inverted Things]

BRTD that doesn't prove anything. Your assertion seems to be that the death penalty causes high murder rates. But its also possible that high murder rates piss everyone off and cause them to demand the death penalty. It is also possible that there is no correlation at all, simply coincidence.

Michigan does not have a death penalty but the murder rate in Detroit is very high. How does that factor in?

The point is the death penalty does not function as a deterrent.

Your numbers don't prove that. How do you know that a repeal of the death penalty in Texas wouldn't increase the murder rate?

Seriously, posting crap like this just makes it more difficult to get rid of the death penalty. People are all too often blind to logical fallacies in their own thinking, but they always know a sh**tty opposing argument when they see one.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Second, according to the 2005 UCR (complete 2006 data not yet available) the Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter rate for Blacks was approximately seven times (well, slightly more) than the white rate. 

And why do you suppose that is?

Well, one part of the reason is the drastically different rates of home ownership.

I'd say a much bigger factor is parenting style.

Its really hard to quantify "parenting style," but, another related factor is that black children who grow up with both parents married and living in the same household are dramitically less likely to be arrested/convicted of a felony than black children without both parents in the household.

One of the first to note this was the late (and great) Dr. (latter Ambassador and Senator) Daniel Patrick Moniyhan.

[Kevin]

The oppsing states in this all have exterme demographic and soical diffrences which make a usual oh Group A has a higher murder rate then Group B discredited all the way through.

[John Dibble]

BRTD that doesn't prove anything. Your assertion seems to be that the death penalty causes high murder rates. But its also possible that high murder rates piss everyone off and cause them to demand the death penalty. It is also possible that there is no correlation at all, simply coincidence.

Michigan does not have a death penalty but the murder rate in Detroit is very high. How does that factor in?

The point is the death penalty does not function as a deterrent.

Your numbers don't prove that. How do you know that a repeal of the death penalty in Texas wouldn't increase the murder rate?

What he said. The death penalty could still act as a deterrent in those states while their overall homicide rates could be still be higher for an entirely seperate set of reasons. Your education has obviously not provided you with the means to think logically if you're arguing in this manner.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Here I was thinking this thread had something to do with Suburbs...

While I don't support the Death Penalty. By just grabbing those eye-catching statistics without looking into the context (Urban v Rural\semi-Rural being an obvious one for many of those states) you are just building a giant strawman, BRTD.

[CARLHAYDEN]

BRTD that doesn't prove anything. Your assertion seems to be that the death penalty causes high murder rates. But its also possible that high murder rates piss everyone off and cause them to demand the death penalty. It is also possible that there is no correlation at all, simply coincidence.

Michigan does not have a death penalty but the murder rate in Detroit is very high. How does that factor in?

The point is the death penalty does not function as a deterrent.

Your numbers don't prove that. How do you know that a repeal of the death penalty in Texas wouldn't increase the murder rate?

What he said. The death penalty could still act as a deterrent in those states while their overall homicide rates could be still be higher for an entirely seperate set of reasons. Your education has obviously not provided you with the means to think logically if you're arguing in this manner.

Uh, John, capital punishment is a specific detterent.

As to how effective it is as a general detterent is based on a variety of factors (frequency of infliction, general knowledge of availablity, etc).

Finally, detterence is but one basis for capital punishment.

[opebo]

Second, according to the 2005 UCR (complete 2006 data not yet available) the Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter rate for Blacks was approximately seven times (well, slightly more) than the white rate. 

And why do you suppose that is?

Well, one part of the reason is the drastically different rates of home ownership.

I'd say a much bigger factor is parenting style.

You're both wrong, but at least Carl Hayden is less racist than Memphis.  Things like homeownership or 'parenting style' are caused by the political actions of the powerful.  In other words the rich cause these social problems.  How could it be otherwise?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Second, according to the 2005 UCR (complete 2006 data not yet available) the Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter rate for Blacks was approximately seven times (well, slightly more) than the white rate. 

And why do you suppose that is?

Well, one part of the reason is the drastically different rates of home ownership.

I'd say a much bigger factor is parenting style.

You're both wrong, but at least Carl Hayden is less racist than Memphis.  Things like homeownership or 'parenting style' are caused by the political actions of the powerful.  In other words the rich cause these social problems.  How could it be otherwise?

Strangely enough, there is a sliver of truth in Opebo's assertion.

In the 1960s and 1970s, welfare rules were such that they encouraged family breakup. 

Also, in the past few years the legal system has grown more tolerant of child molestation but less tolerant of parents resorting to corporal punishment to discipline children.