Nobody in Pittsburgh wants Trump to come

[ProudModerate2]

Let's just be clear about Trump and antisemitism.
Trump has been one of the more pro-Israel presidents.
His daughter is Jewish.
Her husband, who is also Jewish, is one of his principal advisors.
This doesn't scream anti-Semite.

Correct. Instead trump "screams" pro-Fascist/Nazism.
And he will tell you that alt-right, white-nationalist individuals can be described as "very fine people."

[ProudModerate2]

I’m angry as hell and disgusted today.  Trump should come out with a strong denunciation of anti-semitism, Neo-Nazis, and the alt-right today.

Don't hold your breath.

[ProudModerate2]

In these times we have to unite. Not politicize tragedies.

You mean like when the Orange Bafoon just recently asked for the entire nation "to unite," but then in the same breath (same press event) he went-on to "politicize" and mock his opponents?
What a great leader we have (not!).

[ProudModerate2]

Another f*king AR-15.

Who would have thought?

[ProudModerate2]

[ProudModerate2]

Some of these attacks have been faked, like that muslim girl who claimed some guy wearing a MAGA cap.

Are you saying that these people really didn't die? That their deaths were "faked?"
Like all those fake, dead children from Sandy Hook Elementary School?
Good God!

[ProudModerate2]

2. To suggest that there is a real cause and effect between what Trump says, and nutters being triggered to go on a killing spree is highly speculative.

It's highly speculative to link Trump's violent anti-immigration rhetoric to a shooting motivated by racist immigration fears?

I have to agree here. Trump may or may not be what pushed these people to violence, but their targets match his rhetoric.

Torrie, I have to agree with the others here.
Just before the horrific shooting, the killer posted and mentioned HIAS, the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, saying the organization liked to bring "invaders in that kill our people."
So the killer is clearly talking about outside-immigrants(ish) and this "immigrant aid society."
The Orange Buffoon has inspired overall national bigotry with his description of most immigrants as "drug dealers, criminals and rapists."
There clearly is some level of trump oriented hate, involved here.

[ProudModerate2]

Some of these attacks have been faked, like that muslim girl who claimed some guy wearing a MAGA cap.

Are you saying that these people really didn't die? That their deaths were "faked?"
Like all those fake, dead children from Sandy Hook Elementary School?
Good God!

That's sick, I never said that. What I was implying is that some isolated cases were no one was hurt, has sometimes been proven to be faked by the the "victims"

Why is that relevant to this incident though

Because of the claim that anti-Semitism has risen since Trump was inaugurated, some of those incidents could have been made-up.

Is it just me, or is this dude just digging a deeper, deplorable hole of insanity?

[ProudModerate2]

A Trump-hating actual Nazi shoots up a synagogue, what a world.

I would add further to this by saying that antisemitism is by no means confined to the right side of the political spectrum. There are people on the left (i.e. Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Linda Sarsour, Illhan Omar, etc.) who have said very nasty things about Jews. Farrakhan and Sardour are the worst offenders. This is to say nothing of Palestinian apologists in general. Thus, people on here pretending that this is only a problem of "right-wing terrorism" are sorely mistaken.

Yep, fair enough. And just because people (like myself) hate George Soros and his ideas, doesn't make those people anti-Semites necessarily.

I agree. I don't think George Soros is as important as many on the right side of the spectrum think he is, but I also don't condone those who try to blur the line between political opposition and outright extremism. It is possible to oppose people for the ideas they support, without any regard whatsoever for their religion, race, or other characteristics. Soros has the right to donate to whichever causes he wishes, but that doesn't mean that he should be lauded.

No one said he had to be lauded. Plenty of Democrats don't like the Koch Brothers but there have been no instances of them being sent bombs or even attacked them over their ethnicity or religion. Just because people think Soros shouldn't have been sent a bomb doesn't mean they are demanding that he be lauded.

But what really makes Soros different from the Koch Brothers? They are all billionaires donating to political causes. But because of their party affiliation, the responses to them are different. If it had been the Koch Brothers, I'm not so sure this forum's reaction would have been the same. Many people on here seem to operate by a double standard, not treating everything in a more equitable manner.

The difference is right there, in the next sentence: ... but there have been no instances of them being sent bombs or even attacked them over their ethnicity or religion.
Open your eyes. You are intentionally being obtuse to the facts of what he is telling you.
Take-off the GOP horse-blinders.

[ProudModerate2]

Louise Farrakhan endorsed Trump and the rest have no connections with voters nor leadership. Meanwhile fascism has literally been found from the top down in the Republican Party. Again, stop pretending to be politically deaf. I don’t even give this level of care to the admitted racists, of whom the last stand is all Republican, over here. In fact, mods, are we sure this poster has a unique IP and isn’t a sock from banned posters or Russia/China.

Also I made my point against the Koch bros. above.

You think that I am a Russian or Chinese bot? Or a sock? And are calling for an IP check on me? That is it. You are now the latest addition to my already lengthy ignore list. Any further conversation with you is not worth it and will derail this thread further.

Very impressive work by Catherine to make the killing of 11 jews all about herself

Confusing me for a woman, as I've made clear many times that I am not. No matter. You too, are now on my ignore list.

LMAO.
Calthrina must be one of the most pathetic, thin-skinned Atlas users ever on this site.
I also like how she/he constantly threatens the "ignore list" button on others, like it's some high-and-mighty power that will destroy you. Oh, please.

[ProudModerate2]

Bowers blamed Jews for helping 'invaders' in the migrant caravans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The above needs to be re-emphasized.
This clearly shows, that trump has at least partial blame for the death of the 11+ people today.

The killer was posting and making claim that Jews were helping transport members of the migrant caravans in Latin America.
He said he believed those in the migrant caravans were violent because they were attempting to leave countries that had high levels of violence. The killer repeatedly called them "invaders."
All of this hate and bigotry resembles trump's politicized words at his various recent rallies. PERIOD.

[ProudModerate2]

The President of the United States is responsible for this shooting ....

Absolutely no, just no
Is his rhetoric helpful , of course not but to blame him for this is crazy

Old School,
Do you agree with anything in my previous post (immediately above this one), that makes a connection between trump and this outrageous attack?

[ProudModerate2]

The President of the United States is responsible for this shooting ....

Absolutely no, just no
Is his rhetoric helpful , of course not but to blame him for this is crazy

Old School,
Do you agree with anything in my previous post (immediately above this one), that makes a connection between trump and this outrageous attack?

I don’t believe crazy supporters of anyone should be blamed on the person they are supporting.
The person who is to blame is the person who committed the crime .

You are evading the question, and you know it.
Of course "the person who committed the crime, is the person to blame,"and nowhere did I say anything about blame on the simple notion for "just supporting."
But trump's constant rhetoric to his crazy cultists (MAGA Bomber and now this) is partially to blame.
People don't like to hear Nazi/Hitler stories related to anything trump, but it would be insane not to believe that much of the hate, bigotry and violence towards Jews (right before WWII started) in Germany by "normal" Germans, was obviously due to Hitler's constant words of degradation of the Jewish population. A similar example of "The Leader's" powerful words of persuasion on it's citizenry, could be made here and now with trump.

[ProudModerate2]

The Jewish people have been the targets of hatred, based usually on envy, for longer than I've been alive.  It's be a feature of the diaspora for centuries.  In Russia.  In Eastern Europe.  In the Middle East.  In France.  And in Germany, which, before Hitler came to power, was considered one of the more liberal and tolerant destinations for Jews.

My oldest and best friends in New York, where I grew up. were mostly Jewish.  They have all heard the ugliness of anti-Semetism in all sorts of forms.  The sources of resentment was usually resentment toward their wealth; what was never mentioned by the haters was the extreme sacrifices Jewish immigrants made for their children to have better lives.  They made wise choices, they valued education.  I know some of the older Jewish immigrants (now long passed, I'm sure) and the extreme sacrifices they made so their children could go to college and beyond.  THIS was the source of most of the envy and resentment toward Jews that I saw.  I know many Jews personally that are well off, economically, and every one of my personal acquaintances and friends have in their ancestry someone who came with nothing, sacrificed for their future generations, and, if they were fortunate, lived long enough to see and enjoy some of that pay off.

I have not spoken to any of my older friends today.  They all live up north.  I cannot imagine that Donald Trump is on THEIR minds.  Anti-Semetism, yes; Donald Trump, no.  And I doubt any of them voted for Trump either.  Period.

Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

Great. Not only do we get to hear more long-winded, personal "sad" stories from Fuzzy, but apparently he is now a mind-reader to exactly how his "older friends" feel and think.
If he opens-up a psychic-reading small business out of his home, he could be a millionaire.

[ProudModerate2]

The Jewish people have been the targets of hatred, based usually on envy, for longer than I've been alive.  It's be a feature of the diaspora for centuries.  In Russia.  In Eastern Europe.  In the Middle East.  In France.  And in Germany, which, before Hitler came to power, was considered one of the more liberal and tolerant destinations for Jews.

My oldest and best friends in New York, where I grew up. were mostly Jewish.  They have all heard the ugliness of anti-Semetism in all sorts of forms.  The sources of resentment was usually resentment toward their wealth; what was never mentioned by the haters was the extreme sacrifices Jewish immigrants made for their children to have better lives.  They made wise choices, they valued education.  I know some of the older Jewish immigrants (now long passed, I'm sure) and the extreme sacrifices they made so their children could go to college and beyond.  THIS was the source of most of the envy and resentment toward Jews that I saw.  I know many Jews personally that are well off, economically, and every one of my personal acquaintances and friends have in their ancestry someone who came with nothing, sacrificed for their future generations, and, if they were fortunate, lived long enough to see and enjoy some of that pay off.

I have not spoken to any of my older friends today.  They all live up north.  I cannot imagine that Donald Trump is on THEIR minds.  Anti-Semetism, yes; Donald Trump, no.  And I doubt any of them voted for Trump either.  Period.

Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

Great. Not only do we get to hear more long-winded, personal "sad" stories from Fuzzy, but apparently he is now a mind-reader to exactly how his "older friends" feel and think.
If he opens-up a psychic-reading small business out of his home, he could be a millionaire.

Let's say, for a minute, that Donald Trump went on TV and made a statement that kind of statement that everyone wants here.  A statement that not only condemns antisemitism, but an apology for seeming to equivocate on the alt-right in the past, coupled with the sort of condemnation of such groups that met Atlas standards.  Let's say this happened.  What would the Atlas Left response be?

Would there be a gracious acknowledgement of such a statement from the likes of ProudModerate2, Invisible Obama, Yank, Solid, Doctor Imperialism, frodo, harry, and a slew of others who post in their vein here?  Would these folks post gratitude for Trump "coming to his senses" and emphasize areas agreement?  Or would they respond by heaping the vitriol on Trump, calling him a hypocrite, suggesting he is being insincere, or just blathering on as of he never made that statement?  As those individuals have NEVER on this forum manifested graciousness toward people who disagree with them, why wouldn't a statement meant to heal issued by Trump be met with ungracious replies from the ungracious.  Just imagine the rants against "The Orange Clown" that would come forth from this ungracious cacophony of keyboards, all ranting in unison, in response to a statement that was meant for healing and RIGHTEOUS indignation (as opposed to the faux, politically-motivated indignance practiced to an art form around here).

And the real world outside Atlas is full of such people.  People who won't agree with Trump when he's right or when he's doing the right thing.  I don't believe I'm wrong in my assessment of those folks, and there are millions of them in America poised and ready to criticize any sort of statement urging healing by our President.  Calthrina950 has more decency on his worst day than any of those others have on their best.

We'll wait for the inevitable tweet that will be a complete contradiction of what he said earlier.

This was going to be my exact response, also.
trump constantly talks words of "condemnation" or "unity of the nation" (statements that he, himself does not write, by the way) but then by the next day or even just a few minutes later, he is back to his BS hatred-filled responses-of-attack on certain opponents, the media, immigrants, etc.

Why should ANYONE believe in anything he says? It's been the same thing over and over and over again for 2 years now.
His WH writers have trump read the TelePrompter like a robot and later we get to hear trump's true thoughts on the matter (which are never good or "healing" to anyone).
Is there anyone out there that is so inept and delusional, to not see this?

[ProudModerate2]

The Jewish people have been the targets of hatred, based usually on envy, for longer than I've been alive.  It's be a feature of the diaspora for centuries.  In Russia.  In Eastern Europe.  In the Middle East.  In France.  And in Germany, which, before Hitler came to power, was considered one of the more liberal and tolerant destinations for Jews.

My oldest and best friends in New York, where I grew up. were mostly Jewish.  They have all heard the ugliness of anti-Semetism in all sorts of forms.  The sources of resentment was usually resentment toward their wealth; what was never mentioned by the haters was the extreme sacrifices Jewish immigrants made for their children to have better lives.  They made wise choices, they valued education.  I know some of the older Jewish immigrants (now long passed, I'm sure) and the extreme sacrifices they made so their children could go to college and beyond.  THIS was the source of most of the envy and resentment toward Jews that I saw.  I know many Jews personally that are well off, economically, and every one of my personal acquaintances and friends have in their ancestry someone who came with nothing, sacrificed for their future generations, and, if they were fortunate, lived long enough to see and enjoy some of that pay off.

I have not spoken to any of my older friends today.  They all live up north.  I cannot imagine that Donald Trump is on THEIR minds.  Anti-Semetism, yes; Donald Trump, no.  And I doubt any of them voted for Trump either.  Period.

Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

Great. Not only do we get to hear more long-winded, personal "sad" stories from Fuzzy, but apparently he is now a mind-reader to exactly how his "older friends" feel and think.
If he opens-up a psychic-reading small business out of his home, he could be a millionaire.

Let's say, for a minute, that Donald Trump went on TV and made a statement that kind of statement that everyone wants here.  A statement that not only condemns antisemitism, but an apology for seeming to equivocate on the alt-right in the past, coupled with the sort of condemnation of such groups that met Atlas standards.  Let's say this happened.  What would the Atlas Left response be?

Would there be a gracious acknowledgement of such a statement from the likes of ProudModerate2, Invisible Obama, Yank, Solid, Doctor Imperialism, frodo, harry, and a slew of others who post in their vein here?  Would these folks post gratitude for Trump "coming to his senses" and emphasize areas agreement?  Or would they respond by heaping the vitriol on Trump, calling him a hypocrite, suggesting he is being insincere, or just blathering on as of he never made that statement?  As those individuals have NEVER on this forum manifested graciousness toward people who disagree with them, why wouldn't a statement meant to heal issued by Trump be met with ungracious replies from the ungracious.  Just imagine the rants against "The Orange Clown" that would come forth from this ungracious cacophony of keyboards, all ranting in unison, in response to a statement that was meant for healing and RIGHTEOUS indignation (as opposed to the faux, politically-motivated indignance practiced to an art form around here).

And the real world outside Atlas is full of such people.  People who won't agree with Trump when he's right or when he's doing the right thing.  I don't believe I'm wrong in my assessment of those folks, and there are millions of them in America poised and ready to criticize any sort of statement urging healing by our President.  Calthrina950 has more decency on his worst day than any of those others have on their best.

We'll wait for the inevitable tweet that will be a complete contradiction of what he said earlier.

This was going to be my exact response, also.
trump constantly talks words of "condemnation" or "unity of the nation" (statements that he, himself does not write, by the way) but then by the next day or even just a few minutes later, he is back to his BS hatred-filled responses-of-attack on certain opponents, the media, immigrants, etc.

We should ANYONE believe in anything he says? It's been the same thing over and over and over again for 2 years now.
His WH writers have trump read the TelePrompter like a robot and later we get to hear trump's true thoughts on the matter (which are never good or "healing" to anyone).
Is there anyone out there that is so inept and delusional, to not see this?

So Trump could be RIGHT, and you wouldn't support him, because you "can't believe him"?

That's an amazing statement.  What kind of nation are we if you are representative of half of it?  I grant you that we could say this about right-wing posters during the Obama years, but if Americans won't respond positively to a President when they know that President to be correct, I question their fidelity to America, itself.

Fuzzy.
The question is which statement are we to believe (and judge) from the Orange Tangerine.
The point is being made that he has various, contradicting statements.
trump initially, kind-of condemned the Chancellorsville event (where he "was RIGHT)", but then latter praised the alt-right Jew-hating protesters of the same event.
You cant expect people to praise him for being "right" on one aspect of the event, and then to ignore when he said something extremely deplorable later.

(This is just an example ...) If your mom passed-away and I told you that I am sincerely sorry for her passing, but then the next day I told you that you mom was a wh**e, would you (or anyone) praise me for being "right" about the entire experience of her death? And then multiple this by trump doing this over and over and over again. You come to a point where you give-up on said individual for their level of morality/ethics/honesty.

[ProudModerate2]

Just got back from the vigil in Squirrel Hill, very beautiful and very very sad.

Thank you for attending.
I saw some of it on the news, and to see the level of support from all aspects of the entire community was uplifting.
Sad that those who perished had to leave this Earth early, because of some Nazi scumbag.

[ProudModerate2]

The president has partial blame for these murders, due to his continuing rhetoric use of hate in his speeches. Period.

[ProudModerate2]

The president has partial blame for these murders, due to his rhetoric words of continued hate. Period.

Horsecrap!
Exclamation point!

Suck on that for a while, and I'm glad it's burning!!
Double exclamation point!!

[ProudModerate2]

^^That literally is what has happened. Trump&co. vilified the caravan, along with not acting against attacks on Jews, led to the shooter being emboldened to strike.

Your literally behaving like Calthrina in that you ignore any portions that dispute your worldview and parrot a mantra over and over again. You even provide a detailed story, always ending by saying that the libs are stupid and wrong or some other variation. Then you complain that we are all divisive and mean. Just come out that you will put the murder aside only if it advances the country to your liking.

I’m serious, just admit yourself. It’s not like we don’t already know this about you. That you make the stories to hide your agenda like the Pharisees did against Christ.

The murder here is not Trump's fault, period.

I have little interest in the politics of all of this.  I've cast my vote, and it's probably not what you think it is.  What I do care about is America being willing to respond to a President in time of national tragedy or national need.  That is the characteristic of a functional nation.

You have made no effort to explain why the multiple pieces of evidence on why it isn’t the President’s fault for this. All you’ve done is tell convoluted stories like they do in your church.

Also like we should take into account that in the 1860s, pro-union slavery supporters vote in the election when they fight for the confederacy, or act as a bystander, then do we.

Very few of the trump-supporting blue avatars have.
I even challenged Old School Republican to respond to a direct view of the evidence that links what this shooter was saying before he murdered, to the direct and similar (or identical) words of hate that trump has been spewing.
None of them have responded or had opinions directly related to this. The horse-blinders have been in heavy use in this thread.

[ProudModerate2]

Words matter, especially coming from someone in a position of authority. Even if this shooter wasn't motivated by Trump it is still not healthy for the President of the United States to go on rants that could inflame the fringe. If Obama had taken the same sort of path and someone shot up an evangelical church or sent pipe bombs to his political detractors he would have been held to task for all of that. And remember, Trump did say on the trail twice that somebody should shoot Hillary Clinton and although that did not happen it was still a clear call for incitement that was unacceptable.

The fringe, like this guy, doesn't need to be inflamed by any comment.

And the use of deflection to facts continues from JJ.
What a shock.

[ProudModerate2]

In the other thread regarding the MAGA Bomber with mail bombs, we had blue-avatar Atlas member Mitt Romney's Hair(GOP_Represent) saying this ...

Anyway, this will be out of the news cycle tomorrow, and we'll be back to the Caravan and whatever else pops up on the radar. With still 11 days to go to the actual election, this will have no measurable impact whatsoever. And nor should it.

The Nazi scumbag who did all the killing today, did this (partially) because of the trump-hate rhetoric surrounding the "caravan of immigrants."
And we have this Atlas user hoping, practically begging, that this nation continues to hear and concentrate on the hate for the caravan, all in hopes of better "election" results for his side "11 days" from now.
Absolutely Deplorable and disgusting.

[ProudModerate2]

It is.

I am, unfortunately, seeing a lot of parallels between today's left and the right in Germany in the 1920's and early 30's.

I am not a big Trump guy, and disagree with him on some of his policies.   However, I'm looking at the alternative and seeing an increasingly radicalized left, that has even protested against a democratic election. 

...

saying this the day after a nazi murdered eleven people in a synagogue is a very particular type of partisan hackery, and one that should be derided by all

Don't act to shocked .... it's JJ.

[ProudModerate2]

... We have a shooter, who is a virulent anti-Semite, who also hates Trump.  Yet this is somehow Trump's fault. 

I have not liked the results of some presidential elections.  I have never seen a protest of the results. 

Incidents similar to this happened under other presidents.  We have had civil unrest under other presidents.  I never blamed the sitting president for it, and only rarely have I heard anyone else doing it, and those people were always on the extremes. I have never heard anyone, even the extremist, try to draw a link with the sitting president the way this is being done today.  ...

How on Earth do you function in society?
Now I see why Badger was so insistent on bashing you on how you ignore all the facts to various issues. It's like you create BS out of the air, to make yourself feel better, and somehow can trick your brain to believe it's all true.
Good God!
(Sometimes I hope he is just a major troll, because his line of thinking is scary and sad.)

[ProudModerate2]

... Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

Well here you go Fuzzy.
"The people of Squirrel Hill are saying" exactly what we have been saying.
Clear your ears of wax and "listen" ...

Former president of the Tree of Life Synagogue Lynette Lederman says President Trump is a "purveyor of hate speech" and is not welcome in Pittsburgh in the wake of a shooting that killed 11.

Watch video here: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/10/29/lynette-lederman-trump-not-welcome-pittsburgh-intv-newday-sot-vpx.cnn