Should Israel = "Jewish state", OR not give preference to any ethnicity/religion

[Blue3]

Should Israel remain a "Jewish state"

or

Should it become a state that does not legally give preference to any particular ethnicity or religion (more similar to the United States)

?

[Blue3]

This is a mildly loaded question. Although not as loaded as some on the Zionist left would like to admit.

Generally the Zionist left, and even the Zionist centre and some of the Zionist right (officially at least), don't see the term "Jewish state" as necessitating preference for Jews. It's more incidental. The state is Jewish because Jews live there and are currently constitute a majority. Of course, maintaining that majority requires giving preferences to Jews when it comes to immigration but some would shrug that off as a means to an end or...something.

They try to maintain the Jewish majority.

Orthodox Judaism (the most conservative type of Judaism) holds direct influence over their legal system, deciding who is allowed to get married in Israel, and who counts as a Jew.

Dark-skinned African Jews face discrimination, some even sterilized.

Arab-Israeli citizens face discrimination. Prime Minister Netanyahu, in his most recent re-election campaign, complained about them gaining too much of a voice recently and how horrible that was so vote for him.

Jimmy Cater and others have called it an "apartheid state," like how South Africa was.

There are many other worrying signs.

Israel demands its Muslim/Arab/Persian neighbors recognize it as a "Jewish state," saying it won't sign a peace treaty with any who don't. So it's obviously important to the Israeli government.




I believe in a world where no state gives preferences to religion, ethnicity or any other similar demographic. Like how it legally is now in the United States (though we still have problems with it, our law is on the right side). We support Israel in the United States so much, saying it should be a beacon of hope in the region. But I don't see anything hopeful in a country that declares itself a "(fill in the blank with an ethnicity/religion) state." Israel is one of those. Israel should be better than that. Better integrating all people into Israel as equals under the law would lead to a better chance at peace.

[Blue3]

This is a mildly loaded question. Although not as loaded as some on the Zionist left would like to admit.

Generally the Zionist left, and even the Zionist centre and some of the Zionist right (officially at least), don't see the term "Jewish state" as necessitating preference for Jews. It's more incidental. The state is Jewish because Jews live there and are currently constitute a majority. Of course, maintaining that majority requires giving preferences to Jews when it comes to immigration but some would shrug that off as a means to an end or...something.

They try to maintain the Jewish majority.

Orthodox Judaism (the most conservative type of Judaism) holds direct influence over their legal system, deciding who is allowed to get married in Israel, and who counts as a Jew.

So does Islamic law.

And I don't think they should be either. But people tend to turn a blind eye when it comes to Israel. Is "ISIS/Iran/Taliban does it too!" really a justification you want to use? Does that make it right? If Israel isn't better than its neighbors in this, why should we support them so much more? Why not support, say, Jordan and Lebanon in the same way we support Israel? Why continue to treat Israel as special?

In terms of citizenship and immigration, priority must continue to be given to Jews. That is the express purpose of the state - a refuge for the Jewish people. In terms of how the country's laws govern its citizens and residents, though, it should be a secular state with equal rights to all.

But should it be? Why must there be a "Jewish state"? Wouldn't a country, and a world, where all people are treated equally regardless of their ethnicity or religion be better refuge and safe haven? They know what it's like to be treated unfairly, so shouldn't they treat others like how they want to be treated... how they wished they were treated in countries where they were in the minority?

You know, there are about 200 countries on this planet. I do not care whether Nepal claims to be a Hindu state (no more, I believe, but who cares), or Israel claims to be Jewish. As long as they keep the discrimination of minorities within reasonable limits and do not engage in ethnic cleansing, it is up to the Israelis. Within its borders, Israel is reasonably democratic and gives a non-negligible degree of the protection of the law to all its citizens. Of course, if I were an Israeli I would very much identify with the minorities: they are not treated the way I would like minorities treated in my country. But Israel is not my country, and they do not eat their non-Jewish citizens for breakfast: good enough in my book.

But shouldn't we try to have a better, fairer world? It's understandable to accept that things aren't perfect and probably won't become perfect anytime soon, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying to make things better. That doesn't mean we should accept things as they are. That doesn't mean we shouldn't at least think things *should* be different.

[Blue3]

Israel should obviously continue to be a Jewish state. To suggest otherwise is nonsense. Jews are being attacked constantly by the Muslim invasion into Europe, and other whites blame the immigration problem on a "Jewish conspiracy". With all this going on and likely to get worse, you clowns don't think the Jews should be allowed to have 20,000 miles of space just for them?

So a refugee crisis caused by ISIS is now a "Muslim invasion into Europe," and some "whites" blame it on a Jewish conspiracy.... so this means "the Jews should be allowed to have 20,000 miles of space just for them" and "to suggest otherwise is nonsense"??

Zero logic there.