COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[politicallefty]

Why be so stupid? It's not that hard to wear a mask. It's not some massive inconvenience. I understand the issues with not being able to go to restaurants, movie theatres, etc. I want to go to those places too. I haven't been to either of those since January of last year. We need to stop with the premature victory laps. At minimum, keep wearing your masks, keep your hands ultra-clean, and try to keep as socially distant as possible within a location. If we do that, the vaccines can carry us to victory. Or least so long as our anti-vax population isn't significant enough to prevent something like herd immunity,

[politicallefty]

Fauci’s guidance, however, is also irresponsible, and I would expect more from him and the CDC.

If we want people to be vaccinated, we need to remove the recommended restrictions for vaccinated people.  The refusal to do so really does make it -appear- like public health officials have little confidence in the vaccines, despite all the evidence that they are stupendously effective.

He's playing it safe. He also knows the way many people in this country have been acting.

The CDC has already said it's fine for people that are vaccinated to congregate with others that are also vaccinated. I don't see the issue there. As for in public, everyone has to abide by the same regulations or the whole system breaks down. Wearing a mask and staying socially distant while at the grocery store is one of the easiest things you can do. If you're arguing for exemptions for those that are vaccinated, how exactly do you keep track of that? There's already a mass hysteria on the right over things like vaccine passports (because it's apparently necessary to keep a COVID vaccine top secret?).

[politicallefty]

We should absolutely have different rules for vaccinated and unvaccinated people.  Why should the lifestyles of responsible people be held hostage to the whims of anti-vax conspiracy theorists?

And I don’t understand the whole “how do you keep track that?” argument.
You need a license to drive a car.  How do we keep track of that?  I drive my car almost ever day, and I often go years without anyone asking if have a license to drive it.  And yet, almost everyone on the road abides by the requirement to have a driver’s license.

No one makes an argument like “Well, some people aren’t safe drivers, and even if we require a test for safe driving, we won’t be able to tell the safe drivers from the unsafe ones while there on the road, so therefore no one should be allowed to drive!”

How would it be any different with a vaccine card?

That's hardly the same thing. A driver's license is a government ID and the government knows whether or not you have a valid one, whether or not you show it (although having it on your person is required to drive, of course). There's a multitude of reasons as to why you don't want to risk having an expired license. One, your fate isn't always in your own hands. Second, the penalties can be quite nasty in terms of the law and insurance. Third, if you let it go too long, you have to start the process from the beginning and take the written and driving tests again. I could go on, but my main point is that it's risky because there are penalties.

I'm arguing that we don't have an adequate system set up right now. If you're arguing for doing something like this down the road, I would agree with you. If you're arguing for right away, I'm saying it's too soon. I say this as someone that has already had the first dose of Pfizer. The CDC COVID cards are a good start, but there's already a black market for fraudulent ones. It would be nice if we could open up restaurants to people that are fully vaccinated (and require showing proof). That industry has suffered enough. I don't think a model works like that for grocery stores and such, where it's a lot of people constantly going in and out. Most stores don't even check for masks, although there is a social pressure to do so. But I don't see the problem with wearing a mask in a grocery store and keeping a few feet of distance in lines and such. You can't wear a mask while eating in a restaurant, which is why I specifically mentioned restaurants. Something like that could also work as an incentive for people to vaccinated.

You also have states like Florida that are trying the opposite and trying to prevent businesses from asking for proof of vaccine. I'm not really sure what the goal is there, but it's certainly not helping us get on the other side of this pandemic.

[politicallefty]

If you're arguing for exemptions for those that are vaccinated, how exactly do you keep track of that?

You don't do it at the individual level.

The way to do this is based on some evidence-informed benchmark for a region - most likely a state, but a metropolitan area or a collection of counties would also do. Something like: Once 80% of high-risk groups and 60% of all adults have been vaccinated, the area reopens as long as hospitalizations remain below a certain threshold. (Those numbers are just provided as examples, you can argue about where they should be.)

There might also be a condition to guarantee that every adult has had at least a couple of weeks of eligibility and open appointments during which they had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

Those seem to be reasonable benchmarks. I don't think we've hit them anywhere in this country yet. That's what I was getting at. Too many people want to jump right now. We're not there yet, but we can be if people act responsibly. And if people still want to mask up and maintain social distance, they should be allowed to do so.

Two days from now, it will be 2 weeks since my second dose. I shouldn't have to be locked in my home wearing 2 masks after that. If some people refuse to get the vaccine (who are otherwise eligible), that is their choice, but it's not my problem. Why should I miss family events, personal milestones, or properly breathing the air inside Kroger because of others' choices? (I don't think our Kroger enforces masks, but still.)

Assuming all or most others are vaccinated at those events, you shouldn't have to miss your family events or personal milestones. All we're asking is that you keep wearing your mask in public around strangers (like in grocery stores) and keep socially distant in stores (i.e. note the stickers and/or keep a few feet away from the next person in line). Am I the only person that doesn't view a trip to the grocery store as a significant social event that requires no mask and close social contact?

[politicallefty]

I got the J+J vaccine.  It's 70% effective.  That's pretty good, but I still don't want to go around exposing myself to the virus and risk long-term lung damage.

If I'm hanging around other vaccinated people, I think we can all be reasonably confident that none of us is going to give the other the virus.  You got your second Moderna shot?  Take that mask down and cough all over me, I couldn't care less.

But if you didn't get vaccinated, in my eyes, you're still just as much a threat as before.

And the problem is, most of the people walking around without masks are the same people who are going to refuse to get vaccinated -- idiot Trump supporters.  I wish they'd all just hurry up and get the virus already so their decision to refuse the vaccine would become irrelevant.  But until then, if I see someone not wearing a mask, I'm just going to assume they're an idiot who watched Tucker every night, doesn't believe in COVID, doesn't believe in masks, doesn't believe in the vaccine, and probably won't change their mind until they actually get COVID and spread it around to everyone they can.

So if you want people to think you're that guy, go right on ahead.  But you can see why the rest of us want to avoid being around that guy.

The only way to create a world where we don't have to wear masks anymore is to require vaccine passports for entry into bars, restaurants, businesses, etc.  make the Tucker fangirls sit out in the tents we've already set up for them.

Unfortunately, there's a nasty biological experiment going on in Brazil. The guy running Brazil is straight-up f-cking dumb. Even Trump starts to look like a godsend by comparison. I want an indefinite absolute travel ban when it comes to Brazil. The virus couldn't ask for a better environment. I'm worried about that petri dish that could make the current vaccines useless.

[politicallefty]

Is there an actual breakdown of variants for now positive tested patients? How dominant is the UK variant? It basically replaced the so called wildtype in Europe within just two months. At least vaccines aren't considerably less effective with this one and the South African one.

From what I've heard, it might actually be a good thing that the UK variant is taking hold. While it is more infectious and lethal than the original strain, it might actually be pushing out the more problematic and lethal Brazil and South Africa variants.

Looking at the areas of high infection rates, I'm still concerned over Brazil. I also think India could be a big problem. The more the virus is allowed to propagate the more likely it is that we're going to run into a variant that isn't covered by vaccines. This isn't rocket science. All vaccine efforts have focuses on the spike protein. I'm worried about that mutating into something that could evade all current vaccines.

But hey, we have a bunch of whiny 2 year olds that only care about themselves. Let's keep risking a serious viral mutation that could render all our vaccine efforts moot just because some people want to drink in a bar.

[politicallefty]

Do you think the variants are going to prolong this pandemic past this summer? Will we still be under mask mandates, capacity restrictions, etc. this time next year?

I don't think it'll matter in a year. The virus could mutate into something like a highly infectious strain of the original SARS virus and many states would probably do nothing. It could start killing 10k/day and many states would call it a government conspiracy from the "Deep State". I have no confidence in the American people anymore. People are just plain stupid and want to bitch and whine about everything. The fact that so many are already trying to rescind mask mandates says everything. It is quite literally the least you can do as an individual.

The truth is that I'd like to see capacity restrictions lifted for those that have been fully vaccinated. That would mean letting those that have been fully vaccinated into restaurants and letting them sit down without masks. I don't see any reason to lift mask mandates where they're not in the way. In a restaurant full of vaccinated people? Fine, let's drop the masks. In a grocery store with many people coming and going? What is the harm of wearing a mask?

[politicallefty]

I don't think it'll matter in a year. The virus could mutate into something like a highly infectious strain of the original SARS virus and many states would probably do nothing. It could start killing 10k/day and many states would call it a government conspiracy from the "Deep State". I have no confidence in the American people anymore. People are just plain stupid and want to bitch and whine about everything. The fact that so many are already trying to rescind mask mandates says everything. It is quite literally the least you can do as an individual.

The truth is that I'd like to see capacity restrictions lifted for those that have been fully vaccinated. That would mean letting those that have been fully vaccinated into restaurants and letting them sit down without masks. I don't see any reason to lift mask mandates where they're not in the way. In a restaurant full of vaccinated people? Fine, let's drop the masks. In a grocery store with many people coming and going? What is the harm of wearing a mask?

So you're saying the mask mandate should become permanent?

Not at all. What I am arguing for is that we slowly unwind the restrictions in place. I'm saying that the mask mandate (along with social distancing in public places, particularly like being in line in stores) is the least you can do. It's not a massive inconvenience in a store, hardly the same as not being able to go to restaurants or movie theatres. It's about minimizing risk as well. As I said above, I would start by opening up restaurants to full capacity, but only allow people that have been fully vaccinated (that would mean two weeks after their second shot). Some states are already trying to prohibit that from happening. But overall, I'm just saying we need to move step by step in lowering restrictions. It should not be all at once. Requiring masks in the grocery store is of absolute minimal inconvenience and should be among the last to be removed.

As I've said before, while I don't think everything we've done to get through this pandemic should be made permanent, we can learn some positive lessons. I think that could and should include voluntary masking when one feels sick (or wants to avoid getting sick) during cold and flu season and feels the need to be in public. Many Asians countries already do this. It's not a big deal. As for being mandatory? No, not unless the particular pathogen is sufficiently severe or fatal. But masking up to avoid spreading illness should be normalized throughout the Western world.

I certainly think that it's selfish for people to stop wearing a mask just because they've been vaccinated. I think we should continue to don them, but only until we've reached an adequate vaccination rate. I do not want this to become permanent, and I certainly hope that we still won't be wearing them next year.

I won't repeat what I said above about voluntary masking post-pandemic, but I agree with you here. I think the key is reaching a certain vaccination level among the adult population, which I would say is probably in the 70-80% range (at least one dose). I am concerned about the level of vaccine hesitancy, although we have managed to vaccinate over 81% of seniors with at least their first dose. I imagine we're soon going to have a significant surplus of vaccine once the vast majority of willing adults are fully vaccinated. I'm hoping that will coincide with lowering the minimum age below 16, which would help cover many K-12 students before the new school year starts.

As for masking outside, I haven't done that from the start of the pandemic so long as I'm not around anyone. I don't live in a dense major city where you're constantly bumping into people when you're outside though. The suburbs are a bit different in that respect. If I'm walking outside and approaching a busier area, I'll pull up the mask that I have fully lowered under my chin (personally, I find it easier to keep it around my ears and just lowered when walking outside by myself). As for when going inside to a store or whatnot, I put my mask on before I get out of the car.

[politicallefty]

Yes,

They are in serious trouble now.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-26/australia-supplies-oxygen-ventilators-india-covid-spike/100095816

The pandemic now becomes a tsunami on certain societies.

This is what honestly terrified me to my core a year ago for this country. I don't mean terrify in any political sense. I mean I was honestly afraid that we could have run out of ventilators and that I or someone I knew could potentially be refused treatment due to lack of resources. That would effectively mean death in almost all cases.

I am terrified for them. I support doing all we can to help, but they're so much larger then we are. They probably need localized Chinese-style lockdowns and to try to massively vaccinate areas surrounding extreme outbreaks. Vaccines are one tool we didn't have a year ago, but they're no good if we don't have enough or enough capability to administer them.

[politicallefty]

What concerns me most are the variant strains and the fact that this virus is still multiplying an extraordinary amount of times in human bodies. If we had 80-90%+ uptake of the vaccine, I wouldn't be too concerned. It's clear the vaccines are working and I'm glad to be one of those that is fully vaccinated. However, I also think the warmer weather is keeping the infection numbers lower. Looking at where vaccine rates are low, there probably will be a fall resurgence in some areas and it won't be pretty with the current variants.

With that said, what concerns me even more is a viral mutation that could render our current vaccines useless. That's partly what bothers me about declaring victory right now. This virus is still multiplying exponentially in human bodies across the world. Every replication is a chance for the virus to become something else.

I'm in the minority now, but I'm still sticking with my mask when I'm grocery shopping. At the very least, I haven't been sick this year or last year. I will probably reduce my trips to places like the grocery store though. I've already seen people coughing without covering their mouth.

[politicallefty]

I hope there won’t be another lockdown, I recently got a job at my local movie theater and our business is picking back up.

I don't support lockdowns right now, but I think we've moved far too fast in eliminating our other good measures. Masks and social distancing have been extraordinarily effective. The CDC made a big mistakes and moved too fast. We should've relaxed restrictions as we met certain vaccine benchmarks.

As I said before, I believe in the vaccines. I wouldn't have allowed myself to be injected with two doses of Pfizer's vaccine if I didn't. However, I do think warm weather is giving us an artificial low. I'm very concerned about a low vaccine uptake and viral mutations that manage to get past our vaccines. That would spread worse than a wildfire.

[politicallefty]

I hope there won’t be another lockdown, I recently got a job at my local movie theater and our business is picking back up.

I don't support lockdowns right now, but I think we've moved far too fast in eliminating our other good measures. Masks and social distancing have been extraordinarily effective. The CDC made a big mistakes and moved too fast. We should've relaxed restrictions as we met certain vaccine benchmarks.

As I said before, I believe in the vaccines. I wouldn't have allowed myself to be injected with two doses of Pfizer's vaccine if I didn't. However, I do think warm weather is giving us an artificial low. I'm very concerned about a low vaccine uptake and viral mutations that manage to get past our vaccines. That would spread worse than a wildfire.

How many people reasonably have not had the vaccine because they didn't have the opportunity to do so? Once people get that chance, the basis for restricting people's lives is much weaker and the argument that they have a personal responsibility to protect themselves is suddenly valid.

If these people were only killing themselves, it'd be one thing. It's like telling a smoker that smoking is bad. I stopped proselytizing about that years ago. I just don't ever lend money to smokers.

On this topic, our vaccination rates are nowhere near what they need to be to prevent mutant strains from forming and getting into the population. That's my concern above all else. Every infection and every replication is the chance for the virus to mutate more times than you can comprehend.

[politicallefty]

I certainly don't want for mask mandates to return. I've seen the reports about how Israel is reimposing its indoor mask mandate, despite the facts that a majority of their population has now been vaccinated and that they have a very low death rate.

At a certain point, the costs of quarantine measures exceed their benefits. Especially if the situation boils down to individual miscalculation or negligence.

I just don't understand why masks are such a big issue. The Asian countries have been using them for years as an effective measure against various pathogens. It's basically the least we can do as a society apart from compulsive hand washing/sanitizing and basic social distancing. I would say it's a whole lot better than lockdowns and shutdowns, both measures that cause actual harm. Personally, I have a bad habit of constantly touching my face. Masks have basically stopped that. During the early days of masking, it was a hard habit to break.

[politicallefty]

I certainly don't want for mask mandates to return. I've seen the reports about how Israel is reimposing its indoor mask mandate, despite the facts that a majority of their population has now been vaccinated and that they have a very low death rate.

At a certain point, the costs of quarantine measures exceed their benefits. Especially if the situation boils down to individual miscalculation or negligence.

I just don't understand why masks are such a big issue. The Asian countries have been using them for years as an effective measure against various pathogens. It's basically the least we can do as a society apart from compulsive hand washing/sanitizing and basic social distancing. I would say it's a whole lot better than lockdowns and shutdowns, both measures that cause actual harm. Personally, I have a bad habit of constantly touching my face. Masks have basically stopped that. During the early days of masking, it was a hard habit to break.

Masks have been shown to cause harm to infant development, especially facial recognition. They are not as harmful as lockdowns and before I was vaccinated I was anal about masking up, but they should not become permanent. These Asian countries are neurotic about masking (and micromanaging peoples lives in general) and have the suicide rates to show for it.

We have vaccines. They work. The only focus should be on the best ways to vaccinate the hesitant and get as close to normalcy as we can.

I'm not saying wear a mask everywhere. I certainly don't wear one at home or outside. For me, it's basically just stores at this point. I haven't been to a sit-down restaurant in well over a year. I'm just saying that certain places probably should still require masks and basic social distancing until we reach herd immunity. We're not even close to that. Personally, I also really like that I haven't been sick in a long time. These measures have wiped out the cold and flu for most people.

As I already said, my concern is that with so many unvaccinated and the virus spreading more than ever around the world that a new variant could render our vaccines moot.

[politicallefty]

WHO Urges Fully Vaccinated People To Continue Wearing Masks As Delta Variant Spreads—But No Word From CDC

World Health Organization (WHO) officials stressed Friday the need for fully vaccinated people to “continue to be appropriately cautious” and keep up with social distancing measures like mask wearing as the highly infectious Delta variant of the coronavirus becomes increasingly dominant in the U.S. and spurs new Covid-19 surges around the world—including in highly vaccinated countries.

[...]

“Us[ing] masks consistently” and following other social distancing measures like avoiding crowds, hand washing and being in well-ventilated spaces is “extremely important, even if you’re vaccinated,” Dr. Mariangela Simao, WHO assistant director-general for access to medicines and health products, said, warning, “Vaccine alone won’t stop the community transmission.”

I have a sick feeling that we declared victory too early. It's just becoming summer too. I don't think we have a clear picture as to what's going to happen later in the year.

[politicallefty]

Also, the amount of “Democrats” on here who are upset that Covid isn’t 100% magically solved and that the vaccines aren’t as effective as originally thought are only upset for political reasons. I guarantee you, had this been a Trump second term, they would be singing a different tune. Truly disgusting, and I honestly am increasingly annoyed with a majority of red avatars.

Personally I'm annoyed when people want to go back to masks and lockdowns because I want to go out and live life and have a good time, not because of the potential impact on Joe Bidan's poll numbers. Everyone (or at least the majority?) of posters on this blog are humans too.

I don't want to go back to lockdown either, but there are intermediate measures we can take. Mitigation is not a bad thing. I still fail to see how masks are some apparent massive violation of rights to some people. They are one of the most effective measures we have against this virus (and viruses and other pathogens in general) after vaccines. Lockdowns, although necessary at times, are harmful to businesses and the economy in general. Masks and social distancing indoors are minor inconveniences. That doesn't mean everywhere. It just means in certain places, like stores. There is no harm in basic personal mitigation measures. At this point, I have to wonder how many people decided to stop basic hand-washing since it's apparently probably too much of a chore for most.

[politicallefty]

At what point would you endorse an end to social distancing measures?

And take "lockdodown" out of your vocabularly. It is not an option and disgusting its even still being debated in July 2021.

I'll excuse your misspelling, but I absolutely do not support lockdowns unless this mutates into something far worse. As I've said before, I support mitigation. Vaccines are the best way to do this. I had my second dose at the end of April. However, I also think summer is giving us a false sense of security. Mitigation means reducing risk, not necessarily eliminating risk. That means wearing a mask in a grocery store or in a medical building or the like, but not while eating in a restaurant or sitting in a movie theatre. I think the end point would be when herd immunity is reached. I would say Vermont has met the criteria to end all pandemic measures, at least for the time being. States need to consider breakthrough variants in the fall and winter.

I don't want to go back to lockdown either, but there are intermediate measures we can take. Mitigation is not a bad thing. I still fail to see how masks are some apparent massive violation of rights to some people. They are one of the most effective measures we have against this virus (and viruses and other pathogens in general) after vaccines.

The key here is “after vaccines”.  If masks are still less effective (and less convenient) than vaccines, we should not be implementing a mask mandate before we implement a vaccine mandate.

And ironically enough, one of the major reasons why the CDC modified its mask-wearing recommendations-and why states have dropped their mask mandates-is because of the belief that removing them would incentivize more people to get vaccinated, so that they would not have to wear masks again. Reimposing mask mandates would not be the best move at this point, and I'm not sure if we could get the high rates of adherence that we had previously.

I think that was one of the worst decisions from the CDC and why I have no ounce of confidence in them anymore (although I never had much considering past decisions). They broadcast their recommendations without any consideration of the social ramifications. There may have been a brief uptick, coinciding with states having enticements (such as Ohio and California), but we've been mostly stalled for awhile now. What happened was that most states removed their mask mandates entirely, regardless of the vaccination rate. No state has required a check of vaccine status.

There's a large segment of the population in this country that remains unvaccinated, not to mention those that are under 12 and cannot get the vaccine. This is only allowing for new mutations and variants to develop as the virus gets an exponential chance to keep replicating. It's apparently not common sense that stopping transmission stops replication. Every day and every chance this virus gets to mutate is one that could render our vaccines useless or even just far less effective.

[politicallefty]

There's a large segment of the population in this country that remains unvaccinated, not to mention those that are under 12 and cannot get the vaccine. This is only allowing for new mutations and variants to develop as the virus gets an exponential chance to keep replicating. It's apparently not common sense that stopping transmission stops replication. Every day and every chance this virus gets to mutate is one that could render our vaccines useless or even just far less effective.

Why don't you have this concern for the flu? Every person it infects is a chance for it to mutate into something deadlier that evades all our vaccines. Right?

I have some understanding of virology. Coronaviruses and influenza viruses are very different. These vaccines we currently have are the first vaccines to ever be used against a human coronavirus. We should all be lucky they are as effective as they currently are. Influenza vaccines are generally made in advance of the upcoming season and often have a fairly low efficacy rate. (So far, we're lucky that the highly lethal avian strains haven't passed from human to human. They appear to be harder to vaccinate against. From what I recall, something in either human respiratory physiology or the shape of the virus makes it currently virtually impossible to pass from person-to-person. That prospect does scare me.) In recent years, influenza vaccine efficacy rates have varied from 10-60%. However, the flu is of highest concern among the elderly, the very young, and the immunocompromised. Vaccines in general may either be problematic or not even work for those that are immunocompromised. As for coronaviruses in general, this virus (SARS-CoV-2) is the third known fatal coronavirus in humans. Its predecessors were SARS (SARS-CoV-1) with a fatality rate of about 10% and MERS (MERS-CoV) with a fatality rate of about 35%. Generally, viruses trade off virulence for transmissibility. However, that are many instances of viruses becoming more virulent with time (examples include Ebola, West Nile, and the Spanish flu).

Right now, we have a virus running rampant across the world and replicating exponentially in every new host. So far, the vaccines are holding up, although not as much as when they were first released to the general public. But we're always one mutation away from something that will render our vaccines either useless or far less effective. I believe in erring on the side of caution. Wear masks in most indoor places when you're with strangers and maintain a certain distance from those you don't know. In restaurants, go ahead and eat normally if you're vaccinated. I plan on going to the movies soon and I'm not going to wear a mask watching the movie (but I'll still wear it other indoor public places). I want businesses to be open, but considerations need to be made, particularly in restaurants (such as reduced capacity or working to space people apart more effectively or asking for vaccine status). I think this is all a matter of risk mitigation and balancing.

I am not going to push a mask mandate but I will not rally against one either. Bigger fish to fry.

I just DEMAND businesses and schools remain open.

You'll get no disagreement from me on businesses, but schools concern me since those under 12 likely won't be getting vaccines until at least January 2022. I'm not saying close schools (unless severe conditions warrant it, such as a massive outbreak), but I think schools across the country should have mask mandates and strict social distancing. If I had a kid that couldn't be vaccinated (either under 12 or otherwise), I would not want to send them to school unless schools were operating under those conditions.

[politicallefty]

I think the vaccines work, but we were clearly sold a bill of goods when they said the release of vaccines would bring us back to normal.

The vaccines have been out for 7 months, yet places like California, Hawaii, and some other countries keep doubling down on restrictions. Things appear to be just fine in my small city, but other places aren't so lucky.

They said vaccines would mean the end of restrictions. They flat-out lied to us. They didn't make an honest mistake. They intentionally lied. When I say "they", I mean the media and government officials.

You are missing the target.

The vaccines are extremely effective and would bring us back to normal only if a high enough percentage of the population was vaccinated.  That hasn't happened, and we all know why.  The blame for the pandemic dragging on in the U.S. lies entirely on those who refuse to get the vaccine and those who push lies to discourage it.  Not on the government, which has done everything it can to encourage people to get the vaccine.

I think you're totally right. Suddenly a lot of people on the left that have been vaccinated are acting like Republicans. They're all "Me! Me! Me!" and "It's all about ME!". So much for "we're all in this together". This all goes back to the disastrous decision by the CDC to stop recommending masks for the vaccinated back in May. I'm almost certain that at least 80-90% of the people that are still wearing masks are vaccinated. All that did was give cover to those that aren't vaccinated to remove their masks since very few entities are asking for proof of vaccination. A fourth wave this summer will be look relatively suppressed due to vaccines, but it's also summer. If we were in fall or winter months, it'd be especially ugly.

[politicallefty]

I think you're totally right. Suddenly a lot of people on the left that have been vaccinated are acting like Republicans. They're all "Me! Me! Me!" and "It's all about ME!". So much for "we're all in this together". This all goes back to the disastrous decision by the CDC to stop recommending masks for the vaccinated back in May. I'm almost certain that at least 80-90% of the people that are still wearing masks are vaccinated. All that did was give cover to those that aren't vaccinated to remove their masks since very few entities are asking for proof of vaccination. A fourth wave this summer will be look relatively suppressed due to vaccines, but it's also summer. If we were in fall or winter months, it'd be especially ugly.

A very large section of the population already figured out that "we're all in this together" was for suckers, right around the time they decided they wouldn't be getting vaccinated. I don't plan to make any sacrifices for people who clearly do not have any level of regard for their own life or the lives of others, and the government shouldn't be making decisions to cater to them either.

We already know from cell phone data that how serious the general public takes this pandemic depends on how serious the general public perceives it. Measures such as wearing a mask in a grocery store reminds us all that the virus is still here. News reports are constantly reminding people. When people feel things are getting more serious, they become less mobile. They go out to the store less. They're less likely to do things in public. As I've said before, I'm concerned that with so many people still contracting and spreading the virus that we will end up with a new strain that evades or significantly diminishes our vaccines before the end of the year.

I didn't get two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech because it felt good (my arm was sore after both and I felt like shi-t the day after my 2nd). I did it to protect myself and others and help get us all out of this pandemic. We're not out of the woods. It's just that people like you and me have a suit of armor. Some of us want to wear a shield as well.

[politicallefty]

Since you seem more knowledgeable than others on the issue, I have to actually ask a question. Given the extremely high risk of a mutation rendering the vaccines useless, I've long asked myself the question of: Would humanity actually be better off if a vaccine had not been developed?

My reasoning here is quite similar as to why the excessive use of anti-biotics is allowing the creation of anti-biotic resistent bacteria. People taking needless antibiotics means the bacteria can somehow "learn" how to defeat the antibiotics and create a mutation that makes it anti-biotic resistance.

So similarly, is the fact that covid is spreading to vaccinated people, and in some cases being able to infect them and what not creating a vaccine-resistant strain of covid?

Meanwhile with no vaccine, humanity would be worse off in the short term, but covid would be unable to "learn" how to become vaccine resistant (since there would be no vaccine) and eventually it would be gone in 3 years or so (much like every other epidemic in human history).

Basically my fear is that partial vaccination might somehow drag on the pandemic (meaning instead of lasting for 3-4 years it lasts a whole decade) as well as giving the virus more chances to mutate and create a worse version of itself.

Note I am borderline biology-illiterate given I dropped that class in year 7 or so so perhaps I am just saying stupid things.

Based on the numbers, we are absolutely better off with these vaccines. They are effective and they work, but they were at most 95% efficient. The new variants change things considerably.

Viruses are not living organisms like bacteria. They don't build resistance in the same way. However, they do mutate to evade vaccines. This virus won't attack the strong first (i.e. the vaccinated). It's working on the easy targets, all those that remain unvaccinated. Even there, natural selection is at play, constantly selecting for a virus that will be even better at propagating itself. The virus running rampant amongst the unvaccinated is giving us far more mutations that we need. I'm not interested in rolling the dice.

Partial vaccination is better than nothing. Just do what you can do to get the 2nd dose.

[politicallefty]

https://abc7.com/la-county-sheriff-alex-villanueva-mask-order-los-angeles-department-of-public-health-mandate/10892664/

The sheriff won't enforce the mask order

He should be removed from office. Whether you like a mask mandate or not, law enforcement has a duty to enforce the law.

[politicallefty]

I just want to vent that pretty much all of the liberal "pro-science" media is devoting wall to wall coverage to the potential for the vaccines being ineffective longterm. They're desperate for an endless pandemic and I hate them for it. I'm struggling to get some important people in my life to get the vaccine and they're convinced that the vaccine doesn't prevent infections, and it's because of bloodthirsty 24-hour news networks and fear-mongering rags like the NYT.

I think the most serious concern is indeed that the vaccines become less effective or outright ineffective. That will be accomplished by a large segment of the population remaining unvaccinated and allowing the virus to run rampant. I say this as someone that got the second dose nearly three months ago but continues to mask-up in most indoor public places. I've said this before, but the more the virus spreads the more opportunities it has to mutate. This has always been a race against the virus and we're losing ground for the first time since the vaccine roll-out began.

These vaccines, particularly the mRNA ones, are still highly effective. There has been some loss of efficacy against the Delta variant, but still extraordinarily effective at preventing hospitalization or death. The problem is that we let up on our other measures far too soon. The grocery stores I go to don't even have the one-way aisles anymore (which I actually quite liked anyway). But as I said before, this is all a result of the CDC saying the pandemic was basically over in mid-May. Absent vaccine passports, we needed to maintain mask mandates and some form of basic social distancing until certain levels of vaccine uptake were reached. We still have large segments of the population that cannot get the vaccine, whether or not they want it (the largest groups being children under 12).

As for continuing to mask-up when vaccinated, I feel this article sums up my feelings pretty well.

[politicallefty]

Well, I certainly feel vindicated after what I've been saying for over two months. I did go out to eat a couple days ago without a mask. It was literally the first time I've been in a non-residential place without a mask since early last year. It was a risk/reward balance and I went with the latter for once. But I went to the grocery store after and put my mask on. I support mitigation efforts, which include masks and basic social distancing. I do not support going back to lockdowns (unless this mutates into something far more virulent).

I'm not surprised to hear so many say they're done. It's all about them. Don't consider the possibility of the virus mutating into something worse. We really are the stupid country and we're going to end up paying the price.

[politicallefty]

Kentucky and Ohio have announced they will not be requiring masks in schools this year. I'm sure Indiana is the same way.

I know my local district did not enforce it 100% last year, because there was always somebody on Facebook complaining about the lack of enforcement.

Are you actually celebrating that? There are no vaccines mandates anywhere of that sort. Those under 12 probably cannot even get the opportunity for the vaccine until possibly January. What does that accomplish? You're beating masks? I would be afraid to send a <12 year old to school without a mask mandate. Our enemy is still the virus, despite what so many have forgotten.