BREAKING: US has traded Russian arms dealer, Viktor Bout (Merchant of Death) for Brittney Griner

[Fuzzy Bear]

Lmao at the 11-1 'No' vote among Republicans; let's not pretend like the fact BG is a relatively masc, African-American, Lesbian doesn't have something to do with it. If this were a petite blonde white girl... The Republicons would be all over trying to bring her home and reprimanding Biden for every second she wasn't.

Any way, good job on the whole administrations response to this and the press conference with Griner's wife, Biden and Kamala was great. Glad BG is coming home/is home!

I'm the 2nd yes vote for Republicans.

I have absolutely no respect for Brittney Griner as a person.  It was a bad deal,  strategically,  for America on some levels.  But she IS an American citizen and we should make efforts to get our citizens back from foreign jails when they suffer Draconian punishments, and Griner fits into that category.

I will revise my opinion of Griner if, upon her return,  she can muster up enough gratitude to at least stand for Anthem, but I don't expect that to happen.   That's OK, as this is still a Free Country.  I'm happy she's out of jail.  And I admire the Whelan family's response.  If I were them I don't know that I could be so magnanimous, but I admire that they were.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Paul Whelan seems to have become a living embodiment of whataboutism.

Nothing against him personally, I hope a deal can be worked out to get him home too, but he is unwittingly being used as a shield to manipulate the right into making them think this was somehow an either or situation where a basketball player (no dog-whistle there, of course) was prioritized over a veteran who the Biden administration apparently doesn't care about rotting in a Russian prison.

Can't we just be happy that an American at all was finally rescued from such a nightmare?

Brittney Griner's attitude towards her country has made that difficult for many.  She's brought that on all by herself.   I'm happy she's home because 9 years in prison for weed is cruel and unjustified,  so it's doing the right thing,  all things considered.

I'm happy that an American citizen was ransomed.   And everyone here would want the government to move Heaven and Earth for THEIR  loved one,  and would want everyone to put aside their past ingratitude if they were guilty of that.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Some of you people just need to admit that you would rather have seen her rot in a Russian prison because she happens to be a Black, relatively butch lesbian.

If you are going to make absurd and outrageous claims like this, you need evidence.

Some of the loudest critics of Biden's move here are notorious racists and homophobes, so why should they be given the benefit of the doubt that their objections are not based on bigotry?

Because there are plenty of reasons to criticize this decision? Are we supposed to never criticize anything involving a black woman or a person who is LGBTQ?

That's not what I said at all.

I'm not saying that there are no legitimate criticisms of Biden's decision. Because there are.

But there are certain people who are primarily upset because the freed person was a Black lesbian.

The main reason I loathe Brittney Griner has nothing to do with race or sexual orientation.  It has a great deal to do with her hating America.   Now I support getting her back, and I,  as well as others,  am uncomfortable with the discussion of what's her life worth vs. Bout's and whomever else you want back or are willing to give up.  But Brittney Griner,  an ungrateful idiot, is back home because the nation she actively loathes places a higher value on HER human life than any other nation in the World,  including nations she considers morally superior to ours.

Perhaps you can stop playing the race card and LGBT card (and the partisan hack card, for that matter) and recognize that this nation does value human life in ways that most nations don't.   She's not home because she's a fine person; she's not, but she's not as bad as Bowe Bergdahl, and we gave up more to get him back.  No one likes an ingrate.  Perhaps Brittney Griner can come realize that she's Home Free because her Country has more virtue than she does.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Some of you people just need to admit that you would rather have seen her rot in a Russian prison because she happens to be a Black, relatively butch lesbian.

If you are going to make absurd and outrageous claims like this, you need evidence.

Some of the loudest critics of Biden's move here are notorious racists and homophobes, so why should they be given the benefit of the doubt that their objections are not based on bigotry?

Because there are plenty of reasons to criticize this decision? Are we supposed to never criticize anything involving a black woman or a person who is LGBTQ?

That's not what I said at all.

I'm not saying that there are no legitimate criticisms of Biden's decision. Because there are.

But there are certain people who are primarily upset because the freed person was a Black lesbian.

The main reason I loathe Brittney Griner has nothing to do with race or sexual orientation.  It has a great deal to do with her hating America.   Now I support getting her back, and I,  as well as others,  am uncomfortable with the discussion of what's her life worth vs. Bout's and whomever else you want back or are willing to give up.  But Brittney Griner,  an ungrateful idiot, is back home because the nation she actively loathes places a higher value on HER human life than any other nation in the World,  including nations she considers morally superior to ours.

Perhaps you can stop playing the race card and LGBT card (and the partisan hack card, for that matter) and recognize that this nation does value human life in ways that most nations don't.   She's not home because she's a fine person; she's not, but she's not as bad as Bowe Bergdahl, and we gave up more to get him back.  No one likes an ingrate.  Perhaps Brittney Griner can come realize that she's Home Free because her Country has more virtue than she does.

Yes yes, we know. Everyone who disagrees with you politically must “hate America.”

Brittney Griner DOES hate America; let's stop kidding ourselves.  She's not "showing her patriotism in a different way" or some kind of drivel like that.  She has had nothing but criticism in her public statements, and she delights in the offense she causes among millions of Americans who believe that America is a fundamentally GOOD nation that has, on balance, been a force for Good in the World. 

Once upon a time, there was a man who had a wife.  In his conversation with his wife he would almost always be critical about her personality, and her family (how she came from a line of losers), how they were this and that negative quality.  He would always acknowledge her as his wife, but he would be openly critical of her (she needs to lose weight "for her health", she "doesn't understand him", etc.  You get the drift.  As to telling his wife that he loves her, this husband would say things like "You know I love you!", or (even worse) "I've already told you that."  Now this husband did fulfill his obligation to work, pay the bills, etc. and he did not cheat.

Does this man love his wife?  Of course not; he hates and despises her.  He doesn't want that reputation, because that reputation is inconvenient, but he hates her.  Someone who loves their wife shows it.  Someone who loves their wife emphasizes the positive and discusses their differences discreetly.  And someone who loves their wife (or their parents, or their kids, for that matter) affirms that every day.  People who can't do that are people who don't love their wives but don't want the whole world to know that.

This hypothetical example illustrates Brittney Griner's feelings toward America.  She hates it.  Until, of course, she needs America to save her from the wrath of Mad Vlad.  These husbands have their "Mad Vlad" days as well, when they realize that they NEED their wife, but their wife, after being mentally and emotionally loathed comes to their aid, but the years of emotional neglect shows in her lack of an enthusiastic response.  That's where I am with Brittney Griner, and where millions of Americans are with this issue.  We're glad she's home because she's one of the family.  But she's been a lousy family member.  I'm hoping that this experience will prove transformative for Griner, but to tell me that Brittney Griner doesn't hate America is to tell me that it's raining while you allow your to relieve himself/herself on my pant leg.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I imagine there were probably more terms to this agreement (maybe in both directions) that aren't going to be released publicly ever, so it's impossible to really judge it. I'm glad we'll go to the ends of the Earth to get back American political prisoners held unjustly abroad, but I do hope the pot was sweetened a bit.

LOL. She is a dumb pothead who hates America, not a "political prisoner".

Regardless of whether or not that's true, none of this would have happened without the tensions between Russia and the USA caused by Putin's invasion of Ukraine's. If both Russia and the USA view her as a political prisoner, she was a political prisoner.

Griner was a political prisoner not of conscience, but of being a useful pawn.  Harry's right about the bottom line here.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Brittney Griner DOES hate America; let's stop kidding ourselves.  She's not "showing her patriotism in a different way" or some kind of drivel like that.  She has had nothing but criticism in her public statements, and she delights in the offense she causes among millions of Americans who believe that America is a fundamentally GOOD nation that has, on balance, been a force for Good in the World. 

Once upon a time, there was a man who had a wife.  In his conversation with his wife he would almost always be critical about her personality, and her family (how she came from a line of losers), how they were this and that negative quality.  He would always acknowledge her as his wife, but he would be openly critical of her (she needs to lose weight "for her health", she "doesn't understand him", etc.  You get the drift.  As to telling his wife that he loves her, this husband would say things like "You know I love you!", or (even worse) "I've already told you that."  Now this husband did fulfill his obligation to work, pay the bills, etc. and he did not cheat.

Does this man love his wife?  Of course not; he hates and despises her.  He doesn't want that reputation, because that reputation is inconvenient, but he hates her.  Someone who loves their wife shows it.  Someone who loves their wife emphasizes the positive and discusses their differences discreetly.  And someone who loves their wife (or their parents, or their kids, for that matter) affirms that every day.  People who can't do that are people who don't love their wives but don't want the whole world to know that.

This hypothetical example illustrates Brittney Griner's feelings toward America.  She hates it.  Until, of course, she needs America to save her from the wrath of Mad Vlad.  These husbands have their "Mad Vlad" days as well, when they realize that they NEED their wife, but their wife, after being mentally and emotionally loathed comes to their aid, but the years of emotional neglect shows in her lack of an enthusiastic response.  That's where I am with Brittney Griner, and where millions of Americans are with this issue.  We're glad she's home because she's one of the family.  But she's been a lousy family member.  I'm hoping that this experience will prove transformative for Griner, but to tell me that Brittney Griner doesn't hate America is to tell me that it's raining while you allow your to relieve himself/herself on my pant leg.

Do you honestly believe that a) criticizing America means you hate it or that b) the relationship between a husband and his wife is in any way, shape, or form comparable to the relationship between a person and their country?

When a person's public rhetoric is nothing but criticism and when their public gestures are those with affirmatively deny a sense of connectedness with America (e. g. conspicuously standing for the Anthem, as opposed to passively standing), then, yes, that's hatred.  Not the hatred of the ranting lunatic, but the hatred of the person who would see you being mugged and not call the cops, or who would see you injured and not render aid if it were inconvenient to do so.

What evidence is there that Brittany Griner has any positive vibe for America?  We've seen the hostility; you show me the other side of the coin.  America has its faults, and I've certainly been critical of America in my lifetime, but where's the sense of anything positive that Griner feels toward America, as a nation (as opposed to her "community" or "Americans of Color" or any subgroup that does not reflect America as a whole)?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Brittney Griner DOES hate America; let's stop kidding ourselves.  She's not "showing her patriotism in a different way" or some kind of drivel like that.  She has had nothing but criticism in her public statements, and she delights in the offense she causes among millions of Americans who believe that America is a fundamentally GOOD nation that has, on balance, been a force for Good in the World. 

Once upon a time, there was a man who had a wife.  In his conversation with his wife he would almost always be critical about her personality, and her family (how she came from a line of losers), how they were this and that negative quality.  He would always acknowledge her as his wife, but he would be openly critical of her (she needs to lose weight "for her health", she "doesn't understand him", etc.  You get the drift.  As to telling his wife that he loves her, this husband would say things like "You know I love you!", or (even worse) "I've already told you that."  Now this husband did fulfill his obligation to work, pay the bills, etc. and he did not cheat.

Does this man love his wife?  Of course not; he hates and despises her.  He doesn't want that reputation, because that reputation is inconvenient, but he hates her.  Someone who loves their wife shows it.  Someone who loves their wife emphasizes the positive and discusses their differences discreetly.  And someone who loves their wife (or their parents, or their kids, for that matter) affirms that every day.  People who can't do that are people who don't love their wives but don't want the whole world to know that.

This hypothetical example illustrates Brittney Griner's feelings toward America.  She hates it.  Until, of course, she needs America to save her from the wrath of Mad Vlad.  These husbands have their "Mad Vlad" days as well, when they realize that they NEED their wife, but their wife, after being mentally and emotionally loathed comes to their aid, but the years of emotional neglect shows in her lack of an enthusiastic response.  That's where I am with Brittney Griner, and where millions of Americans are with this issue.  We're glad she's home because she's one of the family.  But she's been a lousy family member.  I'm hoping that this experience will prove transformative for Griner, but to tell me that Brittney Griner doesn't hate America is to tell me that it's raining while you allow your to relieve himself/herself on my pant leg.

Do you honestly believe that a) criticizing America means you hate it or that b) the relationship between a husband and his wife is in any way, shape, or form comparable to the relationship between a person and their country?

When a person's public rhetoric is nothing but criticism and when their public gestures are those with affirmatively deny a sense of connectedness with America (e. g. conspicuously standing for the Anthem, as opposed to passively standing), then, yes, that's hatred.  Not the hatred of the ranting lunatic, but the hatred of the person who would see you being mugged and not call the cops, or who would see you injured and not render aid if it were inconvenient to do so.

What evidence is there that Brittany Griner has any positive vibe for America?  We've seen the hostility; you show me the other side of the coin.  America has its faults, and I've certainly been critical of America in my lifetime, but where's the sense of anything positive that Griner feels toward America, as a nation (as opposed to her "community" or "Americans of Color" or any subgroup that does not reflect America as a whole)?

Kneeling for the national anthem does not mean that she hates America. That’s a ridiculous assertion.

To me, loving America should be more about the values you hold and the sort of changes that you want to see, the idea that we can do better, rather than purely performative gestures like flag-waving or singing the national anthem.

I have not been a big "flag waver" for most of my life, and I have, for most of my life, considered patriotism to be the last refuge of a scoundrel.  "My Country, Right or Wrong" includes the proposition that when one's Country is not right, it is to be set right.  But there needs to be in that the belief that America is a GOOD Nation.  Implicit in the "kneeling" gesture is the belief that America is not a Good Nation, but something much less.  And Brittney Griner's rhetoric and public stances give no evidence that she views America as such.  

Lots of scoundrels have waved the Flag or thumped the Bible; God and Country have, indeed, been the last refuge of many scoundrels.  But so has "Racism" "Sexism", and any number of bias complaints these days.  I submit that the use of these refuges do not nullify those who truly care for America, truly seek God's Will, and are truly seeking remedies to the "isms" that plague us.  Brittney Griner isn't part of that, however.  And she doesn't wish to be part of it, other than the "taking" part of it.  Standing for the Anthem is a gesture of affirming that you are, at a minimum, a part of America and wish it well.  It's a minimum, but Griner could not even do that.

I'll give her time to rethink her position, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Brittney Griner DOES hate America; let's stop kidding ourselves.  She's not "showing her patriotism in a different way" or some kind of drivel like that.  She has had nothing but criticism in her public statements, and she delights in the offense she causes among millions of Americans who believe that America is a fundamentally GOOD nation that has, on balance, been a force for Good in the World.  

Once upon a time, there was a man who had a wife.  In his conversation with his wife he would almost always be critical about her personality, and her family (how she came from a line of losers), how they were this and that negative quality.  He would always acknowledge her as his wife, but he would be openly critical of her (she needs to lose weight "for her health", she "doesn't understand him", etc.  You get the drift.  As to telling his wife that he loves her, this husband would say things like "You know I love you!", or (even worse) "I've already told you that."  Now this husband did fulfill his obligation to work, pay the bills, etc. and he did not cheat.

Does this man love his wife?  Of course not; he hates and despises her.  He doesn't want that reputation, because that reputation is inconvenient, but he hates her.  Someone who loves their wife shows it.  Someone who loves their wife emphasizes the positive and discusses their differences discreetly.  And someone who loves their wife (or their parents, or their kids, for that matter) affirms that every day.  People who can't do that are people who don't love their wives but don't want the whole world to know that.

This hypothetical example illustrates Brittney Griner's feelings toward America.  She hates it.  Until, of course, she needs America to save her from the wrath of Mad Vlad.  These husbands have their "Mad Vlad" days as well, when they realize that they NEED their wife, but their wife, after being mentally and emotionally loathed comes to their aid, but the years of emotional neglect shows in her lack of an enthusiastic response.  That's where I am with Brittney Griner, and where millions of Americans are with this issue.  We're glad she's home because she's one of the family.  But she's been a lousy family member.  I'm hoping that this experience will prove transformative for Griner, but to tell me that Brittney Griner doesn't hate America is to tell me that it's raining while you allow your to relieve himself/herself on my pant leg.

Do you honestly believe that a) criticizing America means you hate it or that b) the relationship between a husband and his wife is in any way, shape, or form comparable to the relationship between a person and their country?

When a person's public rhetoric is nothing but criticism and when their public gestures are those with affirmatively deny a sense of connectedness with America (e. g. conspicuously standing for the Anthem, as opposed to passively standing), then, yes, that's hatred.  Not the hatred of the ranting lunatic, but the hatred of the person who would see you being mugged and not call the cops, or who would see you injured and not render aid if it were inconvenient to do so.

What evidence is there that Brittany Griner has any positive vibe for America?  We've seen the hostility; you show me the other side of the coin.  America has its faults, and I've certainly been critical of America in my lifetime, but where's the sense of anything positive that Griner feels toward America, as a nation (as opposed to her "community" or "Americans of Color" or any subgroup that does not reflect America as a whole)?

Kneeling for the national anthem does not mean that she hates America. That’s a ridiculous assertion.

To me, loving America should be more about the values you hold and the sort of changes that you want to see, the idea that we can do better, rather than purely performative gestures like flag-waving or singing the national anthem.

I have not been a big "flag waver" for most of my life, and I have, for most of my life, considered patriotism to be the last refuge of a scoundrel.  "My Country, Right or Wrong" includes the proposition that when one's Country is not right, it is to be set right.  But there needs to be in that the belief that America is a GOOD Nation.  Implicit in the "kneeling" gesture is the belief that America is not a Good Nation, but something much less.  And Brittney Griner's rhetoric and public stances give no evidence that she views America as such.  

Lots of scoundrels have waved the Flag or thumped the Bible; God and Country have, indeed, been the last refuge of many scoundrels.  But so has "Racism" "Sexism", and any number of bias complaints these days.  I submit that the use of these refuges do not nullify those who truly care for America, truly seek God's Will, and are truly seeking remedies to the "isms" that plague us.  Brittney Griner isn't part of that, however.  And she doesn't wish to be part of it, other than the "taking" part of it.  Standing for the Anthem is a gesture of affirming that you are, at a minimum, a part of America and wish it well.  It's a minimum, but Griner could not even do that.

I'll give her time to rethink her position, but I'm not holding my breath.

It's increasingly clear that you've never actually listened to any of Griner's actual statements about why she didn't want to stand for the anthem during the WNBA season. You've just made up your mind that anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem "hates America" so that you don't even have to engage with their actual words and beliefs on the subject.

Well, then, enlighten me.  What are the statements that disprove the assertion that Brittney Griner hates America?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Well, then, enlighten me.  What are the statements that disprove the assertion that Brittney Griner hates America?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/28/brittney-griner-brianna-turner-call-wnba-stop-playing-national-anthem-this-season/

I honestly feel we should not play the national anthem during our season,” Griner said (via the Arizona Republic). “I think we should take that much of a stand.”

No players were on the court Saturday when the Mercury played the Los Angeles Sparks in a protest calling for justice for Breonna Taylor, a black woman who was shot and killed by police in Louisville in March, and other victims of police brutality.

“I’m not going to be out there for the national anthem. If the league continues to want to play it, that’s fine,” she added. “It will be all season long, I’ll not be out there. I feel like more are going to probably do the same thing. I can only speak for myself. At the Olympics, I understand you’re playing for your country at that point.”


Griner chose to wear Taylor’s name on her uniform this season, with WNBA and NBA players allowed to add victims’ names to their apparel. “We don’t get asked enough what’s going on in our communities, and I think that’s a shame,” Griner said earlier this month. “Yeah, we’re here to play basketball. But basketball doesn’t mean anything in a world where we can’t just live. We can’t wake up and do whatever we want to do. Go for a run, go to the store to buy some candy, drive your car without the fear of being wrongfully pulled over.

“I just want to challenge everybody to do more. Write the story that might be tough. Take a chance. Ask a question that’s tough. Don’t let it be silent.”

Griner said Monday that she believed “we should not play the national anthem during our season,” a 22-game schedule compressed because of the coronavirus pandemic. Like Colin Kaepernick and others in sports, she is clear that her message does not concern the military or the flag. It’s about police brutality and social injustice.


“I don’t mean that in any disrespect to our country. My dad was in Vietnam and a law officer for 30 years,” she said. “I wanted to be a cop before basketball. I do have pride for my country.”

Certainly doesn't sound to me like someone who "hates America." Your turn. Please present Brittney Griner's most offensive statement. The one that really pushed you over the edge and made you think, "Well this girl obviously hates America." You've been going on and on about how much of an expert you are on Griner's views on America, so I assume you have something really juicy on deck for us.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/28/brittney-griner-brianna-turner-call-wnba-stop-playing-national-anthem-this-season/

“I’m not going to be out there for the national anthem. If the league continues to want to play it, that’s fine,” she added. “It will be all season long, I’ll not be out there. I feel like more are going to probably do the same thing. I can only speak for myself. At the Olympics, I understand you’re playing for your country at that point.”

From Wikepedia:

In 2020, Griner, along with teammate Brianna Turner, called for the WNBA to stop playing the United States national anthem before the games. She made her remarks after Mercury players refused to take the floor during a pre-season game in Bradenton, Florida. Griner said she was protesting the killing of Breonna Taylor as part of the wider George Floyd protests.[87] She said later during a media teleconference, "I honestly feel we should not play the national anthem during our season. I think we should take that much of a stand."[88] She said she does not believe that the national anthem should be played at sporting events.[89]

That's enough for me.  When someone hates me, I don't need a library full of quotes.  

I have seen lots of parents saying they're proud of their kids but have nothing but complaints about them.  It's hard to see the pride.  She wanted the whole WNBA to stop playing the Anthem.  Now I'm sure there would be a consensus amongst WNBA players on that, but what does that say about them?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Well, then, enlighten me.  What are the statements that disprove the assertion that Brittney Griner hates America?

Lol that’s not how it works. You’re making the assertion that she hates America, the burden of proof is on you.

Sorry, you don't make the rules, either.  This isn't Court.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Well, then, enlighten me.  What are the statements that disprove the assertion that Brittney Griner hates America?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/28/brittney-griner-brianna-turner-call-wnba-stop-playing-national-anthem-this-season/

I honestly feel we should not play the national anthem during our season,” Griner said (via the Arizona Republic). “I think we should take that much of a stand.”

No players were on the court Saturday when the Mercury played the Los Angeles Sparks in a protest calling for justice for Breonna Taylor, a black woman who was shot and killed by police in Louisville in March, and other victims of police brutality.

“I’m not going to be out there for the national anthem. If the league continues to want to play it, that’s fine,” she added. “It will be all season long, I’ll not be out there. I feel like more are going to probably do the same thing. I can only speak for myself. At the Olympics, I understand you’re playing for your country at that point.”


Griner chose to wear Taylor’s name on her uniform this season, with WNBA and NBA players allowed to add victims’ names to their apparel. “We don’t get asked enough what’s going on in our communities, and I think that’s a shame,” Griner said earlier this month. “Yeah, we’re here to play basketball. But basketball doesn’t mean anything in a world where we can’t just live. We can’t wake up and do whatever we want to do. Go for a run, go to the store to buy some candy, drive your car without the fear of being wrongfully pulled over.

“I just want to challenge everybody to do more. Write the story that might be tough. Take a chance. Ask a question that’s tough. Don’t let it be silent.”

Griner said Monday that she believed “we should not play the national anthem during our season,” a 22-game schedule compressed because of the coronavirus pandemic. Like Colin Kaepernick and others in sports, she is clear that her message does not concern the military or the flag. It’s about police brutality and social injustice.


“I don’t mean that in any disrespect to our country. My dad was in Vietnam and a law officer for 30 years,” she said. “I wanted to be a cop before basketball. I do have pride for my country.”

Certainly doesn't sound to me like someone who "hates America." Your turn. Please present Brittney Griner's most offensive statement. The one that really pushed you over the edge and made you think, "Well this girl obviously hates America." You've been going on and on about how much of an expert you are on Griner's views on America, so I assume you have something really juicy on deck for us.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/28/brittney-griner-brianna-turner-call-wnba-stop-playing-national-anthem-this-season/

“I’m not going to be out there for the national anthem. If the league continues to want to play it, that’s fine,” she added. “It will be all season long, I’ll not be out there. I feel like more are going to probably do the same thing. I can only speak for myself. At the Olympics, I understand you’re playing for your country at that point.”

From Wikepedia:

In 2020, Griner, along with teammate Brianna Turner, called for the WNBA to stop playing the United States national anthem before the games. She made her remarks after Mercury players refused to take the floor during a pre-season game in Bradenton, Florida. Griner said she was protesting the killing of Breonna Taylor as part of the wider George Floyd protests.[87] She said later during a media teleconference, "I honestly feel we should not play the national anthem during our season. I think we should take that much of a stand."[88] She said she does not believe that the national anthem should be played at sporting events.[89]

That's enough for me.  When someone hates me, I don't need a library full of quotes.  

I have seen lots of parents saying they're proud of their kids but have nothing but complaints about them.  It's hard to see the pride.  She wanted the whole WNBA to stop playing the Anthem.  Now I'm sure there would be a consensus amongst WNBA players on that, but what does that say about them?

So just to clarify and put this to bed, your position is as follows: anyone who refuses to stand for the national anthem “hates America.” Full stop. You don’t need to know anything about them as a person. Not their life story. Not their belief system. You feel that refusal to stand for the national anthem is enough information in an of itself for you to know for certain that a person hates America in their heart of hearts.

Did I get all that right?

Yes, I do.  People on this forum conclude that others are "racist" for a lot less.

Griner not only knelt for the National Anthem, she advocated for the WNBA simply not playing the Anthem.  Sorry, but that's not a Love Letter to America.  If people want to do this thing, that's their right, but they don't get to enjoy a reputation that isn't justified by their words and actions.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Well, then, enlighten me.  What are the statements that disprove the assertion that Brittney Griner hates America?

Lol that’s not how it works. You’re making the assertion that she hates America, the burden of proof is on you.

Sorry, you don't make the rules, either.  This isn't Court.

This is how all discussions and debates work. The person making the claim has to provide the proof.

Proof is not having a larger mob behind you to shout others down.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Brittney Griner DOES hate America; let's stop kidding ourselves.  She's not "showing her patriotism in a different way" or some kind of drivel like that.  She has had nothing but criticism in her public statements, and she delights in the offense she causes among millions of Americans who believe that America is a fundamentally GOOD nation that has, on balance, been a force for Good in the World. 

Once upon a time, there was a man who had a wife.  In his conversation with his wife he would almost always be critical about her personality, and her family (how she came from a line of losers), how they were this and that negative quality.  He would always acknowledge her as his wife, but he would be openly critical of her (she needs to lose weight "for her health", she "doesn't understand him", etc.  You get the drift.  As to telling his wife that he loves her, this husband would say things like "You know I love you!", or (even worse) "I've already told you that."  Now this husband did fulfill his obligation to work, pay the bills, etc. and he did not cheat.

Does this man love his wife?  Of course not; he hates and despises her.  He doesn't want that reputation, because that reputation is inconvenient, but he hates her.  Someone who loves their wife shows it.  Someone who loves their wife emphasizes the positive and discusses their differences discreetly.  And someone who loves their wife (or their parents, or their kids, for that matter) affirms that every day.  People who can't do that are people who don't love their wives but don't want the whole world to know that.

This hypothetical example illustrates Brittney Griner's feelings toward America.  She hates it.  Until, of course, she needs America to save her from the wrath of Mad Vlad.  These husbands have their "Mad Vlad" days as well, when they realize that they NEED their wife, but their wife, after being mentally and emotionally loathed comes to their aid, but the years of emotional neglect shows in her lack of an enthusiastic response.  That's where I am with Brittney Griner, and where millions of Americans are with this issue.  We're glad she's home because she's one of the family.  But she's been a lousy family member.  I'm hoping that this experience will prove transformative for Griner, but to tell me that Brittney Griner doesn't hate America is to tell me that it's raining while you allow your to relieve himself/herself on my pant leg.

Do you honestly believe that a) criticizing America means you hate it or that b) the relationship between a husband and his wife is in any way, shape, or form comparable to the relationship between a person and their country?

It's a valid analogy.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Notice that when Fuzzy Bear inwardly knows he's lost an argument or realizes he's not making any sense, he either vanishes from threads completely, or in this case, responds with just one dismissive sentence instead of the usual eight-paragraph dissertation.  He does it to me all the time.

I've made my point.   I've stood by it.

Dogpiling, shouting louder, more intensive gaslighting, isn't logical arg; that's what you do.  Brittney Griner hates America and she got caught at being a hater.  That only mattered to the Left once she was in the position of the Country she hates and decried as racist saved her at no small costs.

Atlas is a place where the Left freely hates, but gaslights others when they're caught hating.  Getting caught interrupts their narrative.   Meanwhile, ordinary people know hate when they see it.   The only way I will think Brittney Griner doesn't hate America is by some sort of admittedly being wrong about at least some of what she said.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Brittney Griner hates America and she got caught at being a hater.

And this has been proven wrong several times, yet you insist on the fingers-in-ears "la la la I'm not listening" approach.  The moment Boomers (and the remaining previous generation) see people refusing to comply with all the same behavioral routines you grew up having drilled into you, your brains just shut down.

Sorry to ruin your virtue signaling.  Unfortunately, no one died and left you sole arbiter.