1964 United States Presidential Election

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Unpledged: Sen. J. William Fulbright (D-AR)/Sen. Wayne Morse (D-OR)

Just as a note, both these folks opposed the war.

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Also, liberals: don't be fooled into voting for Smith because of LBJ and Vietnam. She's escalated fighting there so far, so if you care about it that much then vote unpledged.

But keep in mind that both Fulbright and Russell were segregationists. If you're like Sjoyce and care more about war then civil rights and health care for the elderly, then you can vote for them. Otherwise there's no good reason to do so.

I talked to Cath about this when we did unpledged electors earlier - it seems that we can get folks who could plausibly have been nominated but not ones completely out of left field. For instance, we can sub in Fulbright or Chandler, but not McCarthy.

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Chase and Barry "Let's nuke Vietnam" Goldwater will be much, much possibly slightly worse than LBJ.

Though why you would vote for either when there's a far better option is beyond me.

Anyways, Morse wasn't a segregationist that I know of, and Fulbright was many things besides that. You could do far worse.

[Donerail]

Smith.

Chase and Barry "Let's nuke Vietnam" Goldwater will be much, much possibly slightly worse than LBJ.

Though why you would vote for either when there's a far better option is beyond me.

Anyways, Morse wasn't a segregationist that I know of, and Fulbright was many things besides that. You could do far worse.

Wayne Morse wasn't a segregationist, but he did vote against the 1957 Civil Rights Act.  So did JFK.

Massachusetts
AYE      D     Kennedy, John    MA

"Morse joined the Democratic Party in 1955, but two years later he voted against Senate Majority Leader Lyndon B. Johnson’s watered-down Civil Rights Bill, calling it an “unconscionable compromise.”"

So yeah, Morse voted against the 1957 one because it didn't go far enough, and Kennedy voted for it.

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This proves unequivocally that "libertarians" are willing to accept the subjucation of nonwhites just to suit their isolationist principles. Of course, since 1964 predates the Gulf of Tonkin incident, there's no way a Dixiecrat president wouldn't intervene in Vietnam anyway. So even if you're anti-Vietnam (which I would be in hindsight), there is no reason to vote unpledged unless you hate black people.

Yes Snowstalker, exactly. Considering how many people died/will die if the present course continues, yes, I'd far rather have continued segregation on my conscience than the deaths of thousands, if not millions, of innocent civilians. And seeing as the VP voted against the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the Presidential candidate did not believe the GoTR would "be interpreted as a sweeping Congressional endorsement for the conduct of a large-scale war in Asia."

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The fact that people are actually getting upset over a a completely fictional alternate history legitimately damages my faith in humanity.

13% of people between 18 and 29 believe in lizard people.

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Smith.

Chase and Barry "Let's nuke Vietnam" Goldwater will be much, much possibly slightly worse than LBJ.

Though why you would vote for either when there's a far better option is beyond me.

Anyways, Morse wasn't a segregationist that I know of, and Fulbright was many things besides that. You could do far worse.

Wayne Morse wasn't a segregationist, but he did vote against the 1957 Civil Rights Act.  So did JFK.

Massachusetts
AYE      D     Kennedy, John    MA

"Morse joined the Democratic Party in 1955, but two years later he voted against Senate Majority Leader Lyndon B. Johnson’s watered-down Civil Rights Bill, calling it an “unconscionable compromise.”"

So yeah, Morse voted against the 1957 one because it didn't go far enough, and Kennedy voted for it.

Sources?   Everything I've read says that Morse voted against it in exchange for a dam, and JFK voted No.

JFK voted aye, source for Morse is the University of Oregon Wayne Morse Center for Law and Politics.

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With that amount of unpledged votes and the Johnson lead over Smith, the electoral map is going to look really weird...

Unpledged was only on the ballot in Alabama in '64, but they currently have 23% of the vote, or about 23 times the number of voters in Alabama in '64.

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Smith has taken the lead again! Now we get to blame the Republicans for Vietnam!

Not necessarily. If the election stays this close, the unpledged electors may get to play kingmaker.

And what a fun game that will be.

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It's not a tie anymore.

All the way with LBJ!

Unpledged Electors for Smith!

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What's the point of voting for 'Unpledged Electors' then just saying who would have voted for anyway. Why not just bite the bullet and vote for a ticket? Meh, that's just me though.

Because we voted for unpledged to try to get the unpledged ticket (Fulbright/Morse) to win. Since he didn't secure a majority, we now have all these electoral votes we need to figure out what to do with.

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Hey, liberals? Who will we run in '68? RFK (though he might die and that would screw things up for Cath)? HHH? McGovern? McCarthy (not him, though, he got weird later on and there are other anti-war candidates)? I propose either HHH/McGovern or McGovern/HHH, but we should keep in mind that we can only elect one of them, as they both ran in '68 and '72 only. Unless Cath does the thing where the VP runs, in which case the other will run at the end of the first's administration in '76. If he does that, we should do Humphrey/McGovern, so that McGovern can serve fully from '77 to '85. Humphrey died in '78, so a McGovern/Humphrey ticket might end up with only 2 1/2 terms for the both of them instead of 4.

Thoughts? What do y'all think?

McGovern/McCarthy!

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All right, then, the people have spoken. McGovern/Somebody '68! Morse seems like a good idea for a VP. However, X, I'm not totally sure about Church. I'm thinking Shriver or Carter.

Church is a major FF. Anti-Vietnam, excellent environmental record, etc. Much better than Shriver, and as much as I hate to not have a Carter post-Presidency to look forwards to... I endorse McGovern or McCarthy for President and Morse, Gruening, or the loser of those two. Worth noting as well: Bear Bryant should be on the ballot in the D Primary in '68 and would make an excellent President.

Excellent Options

• McCarthy/McGovern
• McGovern/McCarthy
• McCarthy/Morse
• McCarthy/Gruening
• McGovern/Morse
• McGovern/Gruening
• Bear Bryant