Who do you blame more for the shutdown?

[Earthling]

The Republicans obviously.

The wonderful thing about a shutdown is that it reminds people, particularly sections of the ignorant poor (whose ignorance is often fanned by the GOP) of how important the federal government actually is to their daily lives.

Over the past decade the GOP has decamped from the ‘small government’ ethos that once argued for a balanced approach to federal government, state government, funding and growth to a position that seems to be nothing more than out and out hatred for government simply functioning. That attitude also seems to pervade positions taken by the court as well. People say that the GOP has a dislike for minority interests however recently it’s apparent that they are a minority in hatred of the majority. Public support and electoral vindication of ‘Obamacare’ has swamped them, same goes for women’s bodies, gay rights, immigration, education. The GOP takes the minority position on nearly every salient public issue of the day. It no longer rests on the political spectrum at all and is now a conspiracy driven machine. The truth is it’s the internet that did it. The GOP’s grassroots are conspiracy theorists; they are birthers, they are the poor who think Mexicans want to swamp the country, they are the people who think the Muslim Brotherhood have infiltrated the government, the people who think that women can shut down a pregnancy, that climate change isn’t happening, that science is dangerous, that atheists hate America, that teaching children the age of the earth is unconstitutional and that gays are the worst group of people in America. They are the people who boo gay servicemen. They are the Christian right and the Paultards and every ideology of that nature that exists on a diet of conspiracy or if that’s not their thing, create a version of ‘reality’ that meets their needs.

It was etched on their faces on election night; the entire Romney campaign just didn’t know never mind didn’t accept what was actually happening out there. These people have Palin, and Cruz and Beck and Fox and WND and Unskewed Polls and a whole wealth of internet resources to back them up. Reality is nothing more than an inconvenience. The problem for any moderates in the GOP is that these people are now conditioned to think that way. If it means driving the GOP off an electoral cliff they will do it.

Very good opinion. And a valid one.

What will the sane Republicans who are looking towards 2016 do? Christie, Jeb Bush, Huntsman all have to become the standardbearer for the party in order to become President. But the party is so toxic that the (R) behind their name might drive away a lot of voters in the most important states. Winning the Presidency as a Republican becomes more and more difficult if the conservatives within the party keep on pushing the party (and the country) closer and closer to the edge of destruction.

[Earthling]

What the Republicans are doing is unreasonable. The battle of health care reform was lost by the Republicans many times. In the voting booth (twice), in the negotiations (they did not want to negotiate), in Congress and in the courts.

The demands of the Republicans are unreasonable and that is why they are to blame. Why would Obama agree to destroy his biggest achievement? No sane person would expect him to do that.

[Earthling]

The Republicans obviously.

The wonderful thing about a shutdown is that it reminds people, particularly sections of the ignorant poor (whose ignorance is often fanned by the GOP) of how important the federal government actually is to their daily lives.

Over the past decade the GOP has decamped from the ‘small government’ ethos that once argued for a balanced approach to federal government, state government, funding and growth to a position that seems to be nothing more than out and out hatred for government simply functioning. That attitude also seems to pervade positions taken by the court as well. People say that the GOP has a dislike for minority interests however recently it’s apparent that they are a minority in hatred of the majority. Public support and electoral vindication of ‘Obamacare’ has swamped them, same goes for women’s bodies, gay rights, immigration, education. The GOP takes the minority position on nearly every salient public issue of the day. It no longer rests on the political spectrum at all and is now a conspiracy driven machine. The truth is it’s the internet that did it. The GOP’s grassroots are conspiracy theorists; they are birthers, they are the poor who think Mexicans want to swamp the country, they are the people who think the Muslim Brotherhood have infiltrated the government, the people who think that women can shut down a pregnancy, that climate change isn’t happening, that science is dangerous, that atheists hate America, that teaching children the age of the earth is unconstitutional and that gays are the worst group of people in America. They are the people who boo gay servicemen. They are the Christian right and the Paultards and every ideology of that nature that exists on a diet of conspiracy or if that’s not their thing, create a version of ‘reality’ that meets their needs.

It was etched on their faces on election night; the entire Romney campaign just didn’t know never mind didn’t accept what was actually happening out there. These people have Palin, and Cruz and Beck and Fox and WND and Unskewed Polls and a whole wealth of internet resources to back them up. Reality is nothing more than an inconvenience. The problem for any moderates in the GOP is that these people are now conditioned to think that way. If it means driving the GOP off an electoral cliff they will do it.

Very good opinion. And a valid one.

What will the sane Republicans who are looking towards 2016 do? Christie, Jeb Bush, Huntsman all have to become the standardbearer for the party in order to become President. But the party is so toxic that the (R) behind their name might drive away a lot of voters in the most important states. Winning the Presidency as a Republican becomes more and more difficult if the conservatives within the party keep on pushing the party (and the country) closer and closer to the edge of destruction.

I'm tired of hearing about how Jeb Bush is a "sane Republican". He changed the only position that people care about hearing from him to find some sort of sembalance of moving to the base. The GOP needs someone, anyone, who is willing to stand on principle against the kooks, not another freaking Romney. Maybe that's Christie, maybe that's Huntsman, but I have very little hope.

I doubt Jeb Bush would act in the same way as many Republicans are acting now. Bush is very conservative but not nuts. Not like Steve King or Ted Cruz.

[Earthling]

If Boehner is really that scared about his speakership he could make a deal with the Democrats. By promising to bring in the sane Republicans (there should be 25 or 30) and let them vote with the Democrats on certain issues where they can reach an agreement (the budget, immigration reform, debt ceiling) and in turn the Democrats will help Boehner keep his job until the end of the current Congress.

[Earthling]

First, the Democrats would look like they are the mature party who are willing to govern.
Second, it would get things done. Things that need to be done.
Third, the Democrats can not rely on the mid-term elections. They could easily lose seats.

[Earthling]

The Republicans obviously.

The wonderful thing about a shutdown is that it reminds people, particularly sections of the ignorant poor (whose ignorance is often fanned by the GOP) of how important the federal government actually is to their daily lives.

Over the past decade the GOP has decamped from the ‘small government’ ethos that once argued for a balanced approach to federal government, state government, funding and growth to a position that seems to be nothing more than out and out hatred for government simply functioning. That attitude also seems to pervade positions taken by the court as well. People say that the GOP has a dislike for minority interests however recently it’s apparent that they are a minority in hatred of the majority. Public support and electoral vindication of ‘Obamacare’ has swamped them, same goes for women’s bodies, gay rights, immigration, education. The GOP takes the minority position on nearly every salient public issue of the day. It no longer rests on the political spectrum at all and is now a conspiracy driven machine. The truth is it’s the internet that did it. The GOP’s grassroots are conspiracy theorists; they are birthers, they are the poor who think Mexicans want to swamp the country, they are the people who think the Muslim Brotherhood have infiltrated the government, the people who think that women can shut down a pregnancy, that climate change isn’t happening, that science is dangerous, that atheists hate America, that teaching children the age of the earth is unconstitutional and that gays are the worst group of people in America. They are the people who boo gay servicemen. They are the Christian right and the Paultards and every ideology of that nature that exists on a diet of conspiracy or if that’s not their thing, create a version of ‘reality’ that meets their needs.

It was etched on their faces on election night; the entire Romney campaign just didn’t know never mind didn’t accept what was actually happening out there. These people have Palin, and Cruz and Beck and Fox and WND and Unskewed Polls and a whole wealth of internet resources to back them up. Reality is nothing more than an inconvenience. The problem for any moderates in the GOP is that these people are now conditioned to think that way. If it means driving the GOP off an electoral cliff they will do it.

Very good opinion. And a valid one.

What will the sane Republicans who are looking towards 2016 do? Christie, Jeb Bush, Huntsman all have to become the standardbearer for the party in order to become President. But the party is so toxic that the (R) behind their name might drive away a lot of voters in the most important states. Winning the Presidency as a Republican becomes more and more difficult if the conservatives within the party keep on pushing the party (and the country) closer and closer to the edge of destruction.

I'm tired of hearing about how Jeb Bush is a "sane Republican". He changed the only position that people care about hearing from him to find some sort of sembalance of moving to the base. The GOP needs someone, anyone, who is willing to stand on principle against the kooks, not another freaking Romney. Maybe that's Christie, maybe that's Huntsman, but I have very little hope.

I doubt Jeb Bush would act in the same way as many Republicans are acting now. Bush is very conservative but not nuts. Not like Steve King or Ted Cruz.

But if they were going that way, Bush wouldn't stop them, because Bush is, like most Republicans in the House and Senate, shaking in his freaking boots.

That may be true, but he is sane. That is my point. He is not badsh#t crazy like Bachmann or Lee.
It remains to be seen if Huntsman and Christie have the spine to stand against the nut-jobs. They need the same people to get elected.