Israel-Gaza war

[Comrade Funk]

Likud lawmaker Danny Danon doubles down on 'voluntary migration' calls after U.S. rejects idea

Likud MK Vaturi: Gaza must be burned. There are no innocents left there, those who remain must be eliminated

[Comrade Funk]

Will be interesting to see which Dems have a conscious.

[Comrade Funk]

People like Vosem don't consider military dictatorship in the West Bank or 20,000 dead women/children "violence" because Palestinian lives don't really matter to them. Just a statistic or a nuisance.

[Comrade Funk]

You're not gonna change the mind of someone who, at best, is ambivalent to 20,000+ Palestinian civilians dying. There's no arguing that.  Plus, if you try, you'll just get a 10 paragraph response that could be shortened to "Palestinians deserve no rights or security."

[Comrade Funk]

This is where I see things going at this point. Israel is either forced to comply or they become South Africa.
EU’s top diplomat: Palestinian state may need to be imposed on Israel from outside

[Comrade Funk]

Netanyahu already sh**t on Biden's "two state" convo. Ofc Biden, being the coward he is, won't do anything to counter this.

[Comrade Funk]

@Vosem

How do you feel about President Biden's recent executive order to sanction Israeli settlers?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/01/biden-executive-order-israel-palestine-00139023#:~:text=President%20Joe%20Biden%20is%20expected,official%20and%20a%20congressional%20aide.

And how do you feel about the state department considering to recognize a Palestinian state and linking Palestinian statehood to any Israel-Saudi deal

https://www.axios.com/2024/01/31/palestine-statehood-biden-israel-gaza-war

You're never gonna convince him to agree with even the most minor anti-Israel policy. He'll write an essay-long soliloquy where he'll play PC and waddle, but in the end it always ends with the maximalist pro-Israel position (destruction of "Palestinian liberationism" aka destruction of any sort of "Palestine"). Even ignoring Gaza, he supports the ongoing policies in the West Bank of Palestinians receiving no equal rights. It's almost impossible to change someone with these type of views.

[Comrade Funk]

https://twitter.com/AmichaiChikli/status/1753376889232662889

Israeli hawks have alienated everyone but Atlas centrists and anti-Arabs

[Comrade Funk]

Let Israel destroy Hamas first.  Only then can we seriously talk about a cease fire. 

Well I guess if you kill hundreds of thousands some of them will end up being in Hamas, right? Israel has already lost the war. They've created a new generation of Hamas and their international standing has dropped to the lowest it's ever been. They had a window of opportunity and they destroyed it. They're lucky the president is an old guard Israel hack because that's not gonna fly in a Democratic primary anymore. It's a partisan issue now and Israel has only themselves to blame. But ofc they'll just blame it on antisemitism or bias.

But yeah. "Destroying Hamas" is just as nebulous as the "War on Terror" and "destroying the Taliban." Amazing how some Biden hacks are just as accepting of this crap as Vosem.

[Comrade Funk]

Is that how it is here?  Fine, I can play that game too:

Judging by the trajectory of anti-Vietnam War protests, it is only a matter of time before you all will be waving Hamas flags in the streets during your protests and demonstrations alongside your Palestinian flags, chanting 'we are all Hamas!'.  How soon will it be before some of you will be openly wishing the Nazis had 'finished the job' in news interviews, assuming you aren't doing so already?  No one outside your movement actually likes you. Have you ever wondered about that?   

Just want to say that I believe Horus is Jewish and I am too. So please apologize and enough with your disgusting assumptions based on nothing

[Comrade Funk]

Is that how it is here?  Fine, I can play that game too:

Judging by the trajectory of anti-Vietnam War protests, it is only a matter of time before you all will be waving Hamas flags in the streets during your protests and demonstrations alongside your Palestinian flags, chanting 'we are all Hamas!'.  How soon will it be before some of you will be openly wishing the Nazis had 'finished the job' in news interviews, assuming you aren't doing so already?  No one outside your movement actually likes you. Have you ever wondered about that?   

Just want to say that I believe Horus is Jewish and I am too. So please apologize and enough with your disgusting assumptions based on nothing

For what?  You make claims I support genocide, and now that I insult you back, you act offended?  Spare me your fake outrage. 

You accused two Jews of becoming Nazi-sympathizers so yeah, I stick by my demand. As far as the "genocide" claim, I'll refer to the comment above me as it sums up the gist of how I feel on your "destroy Hamas" by any means policy.

[Comrade Funk]

I think there is no merit to Palestinian liberationism, and Palestine will be free and independent only when it is free of that scourge.

Palestine is already free and independent, and is now known as Israel. The former British mandate of Palestine became independent in 1948 and the people there decided to change the new country's name to Israel, remaining a multicultural society as the region always had been. Thanks to Egyptian and Jordanian occupation, and more recently Hamas and PLO occupation, Israel has not yet been able to have full sovereignty over the whole region though.

The modern phenomenon of "Palestinian nationalism" by those groups like Hamas and Fatah who reject the multicultural independent Israel and decided to instead reappropriate Israel's former name to espouse far-right Arab Muslim supremacist ideology, on the other hand, very much needs to be stamped out. Ask any "Palestinian nationalist" if they think Jews living in primarily Jewish towns should be able to continue to live freely in their homes in the proposed new state and pray freely at their holy sites like the Temple Mount, and the answer is almost always no.

You honestly believe Israel would grant Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza civil and voting rights? They currently occupy a large portion of one and do anything but while they're messianic, racist settler population is pampered. Don't act like it's the "right-wing" thing to be against what Israel is doing.

[Comrade Funk]

It's not worth lecturing them on the Holocaust or Gaza. People won't change their hatreds over online arguments. They are two sides of the same coin.

[Comrade Funk]

People should read Thomas Freidman's newest column on how Israel's acceptance in the world is rapidly evaporating. It's on the fast-track to becoming South Africa and Israel's most ardent defenders refuse to even acknowledge the incoming disaster. It's wolf warrior diplomacy or nothing to the Vosemites. 30,000 dead civilians in four months don't matter to them.

I’ve spent the past few days traveling from New Delhi to Dubai and Amman, and I have an urgent message to deliver to President Biden and the Israeli people: I am seeing the increasingly rapid erosion of Israel’s standing among friendly nations — a level of acceptance and legitimacy that was painstakingly built up over decades. And if Biden is not careful, America’s global standing will plummet right along with Israel’s.

I don’t think Israelis or the Biden administration fully appreciate the rage that is bubbling up around the world, fueled by social media and TV footage, over the deaths of so many thousands of Palestinian civilians, particularly children, with U.S.-supplied weapons in Israel’s war in Gaza. Hamas has much to answer for in triggering this human tragedy, but Israel and the U.S. are seen as driving events now and getting most of the blame.

That such anger is boiling over in the Arab world is obvious, but I heard it over and over again in conversations in India during the past week — from friends, business leaders, an official and journalists both young and old. That is even more telling because the Hindu-dominated government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi is the only major power in the global south that has supported Israel and consistently blamed Hamas for inviting the massive Israeli retaliation and the deaths of an estimated 30,000 people, according to Gazan health officials, the majority of them civilians.

That many civilian deaths in a relatively short war would be problematic in any context. But when so many civilians die in a retaliatory invasion that was launched by an Israeli government without any political horizon for the morning after — and then, when the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, finally offers a morning-after plan that essentially says to the world that Israel now intends to occupy both the West Bank and Gaza indefinitely — it is no surprise that Israel’s friends will edge away and the Biden team will start to look hapless.

As Shekhar Gupta, the veteran editor of the Indian newspaper ThePrint, put it to me: “There’s enormous love and admiration for Israel in India. But a war with no end will strain it. Initial shock and awe apart, Netanyahu’s war is damaging Israel’s greatest asset: the widely held belief in the invincibility of its army, the infallibility of its intelligence services and the justness of its mission.”

[Comrade Funk]

No amount of pseudointellectual babble can excuse endorsing/justifying genocide

[Comrade Funk]

Biden's response to this all since October has been an unmitigated disaster. His confident proclamation this week that a truce was coming ended up as a nothingness and he's still unwilling to act like the leader of tge superpower he is. He's protecting Netanyahu while killing his reelection chances

[Comrade Funk]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Not a single person here has defended Hamas. Not one. And if they did, they were banned. But continue your strawman assertions.

[Comrade Funk]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Not a single person here has defended Hamas. Not one. And if they did, they were banned. But continue your strawman assertions.

I mean, there are many people on this forum who have said Israel should not have invaded Gaza. How is that different from defending Hamas?

Israel is indiscriminately bombing and purposefully starving the people of Gaza. I know you think that's a swell strategy, but I don't, especially with American weapons being used for the slaughter.

[Comrade Funk]

If I was the President of the United States, I would simply not double down on antagonizing the leadership of a nuclear ally in the middle of an existential war, when that was proven to only improve said leader's political fortunes.

Israel does it constantly to the United States (especially to Biden's former boss). We're the superpower, not them. Maybe if they understood that's the dynamic, things would actually change. But instead they act like petulant teenagers when ever criticized for their awful policies. They're a burden who spit in our face

[Comrade Funk]

"Netanyahu has no chance, most Israelis are done with him."

https://twitter.com/CarolineGlick/status/1767991748033167799?t=2slDm0s_SzoJ5cX6P...

I told you guys he'd pull ahead again if he wasn't ousted immediately after 10/7. This isn't a fixable country. Also you really have to live in some sort of bizarro upside down world to refer to the Israeli opposition as leftist but this is Caroline Glick after all.

Still way better than any other nation in that region and it’s not even remotely close .

Even if that was true (it isn't), what a low effing bar to brag about

[Comrade Funk]

You forgot the part where the IDF are well aware of roughly how many people they (will) kill. It's not a secret, just something most people on this forum (not you of course!) would like to ignore because the collection of information on and deliberate targeting of civilian buildings to maximise suffering conflicts somewhat with the laughably pathetic attempts to pretend that the Israeli military is the most humane in history or whatever. Again, they would seem to align well enough to be used internally. A rather different situation, as I'm sure you'll recognise.

No, I've made it clear that either no deaths are justified or all deaths are justified; the idea that the response to an attack killing 1500 should be killing 1500 random individuals on the other side, rather than destroying their government no matter the cost, is bizarre and divorced from reality. That civilian buildings which are used for military purposes are targeted should go without saying (although you seem to think it should not go at all!); your later quoted article treats this as scandalous rather than obvious.

I did say “not you of course”—did you actually read my post? I only ask because of that and the fact that, er, it’s civilian buildings which are not used for military purposes that are being destroyed. Indeed, as you have read, along with those civilian buildings in which one Hamas member lives (though those are being attacked when the Hamas member in question is away despite the IDF having detailed information on who’s in the building at the time of the attack—could someone, not Vosem, explain that one to me?).

In any case I’m glad to see that you don’t dispute the factuality of the article. I’ll respond to your poorly-informed stuff on the Arab Legion which is at odds with your own source in the morning.

It's not worth arguing. You'll only get ten paragraph screeds of gaslighting

[Comrade Funk]

Israel has already lost the war regardless if Hamas is destroyed (unlikley) or not. They have lost decades of prestige, irreparably damaged their relationship with the US, and are on the fast track to pariah status. But keeping power and staying out of prison is Netanyahu's goal above all else. And hurting Biden by extending this thing and killing more children is his best strategy.

[Comrade Funk]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

[Comrade Funk]

Joe Biden is sacrificing his campaign for Israel

[Comrade Funk]

Settlers will face minimal (if any) consequences for their BS. This is what an apartheid system does. Total subjugation funded by the US Government. But at least Joe Biden said they had to change. That'll stop Israel.